Personal Finance

Bitcoin trading journal: quest for 16 doubles

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  • Sep 16th, 2014 12:55 pm
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Deal Fanatic
Aug 14, 2007
9758 posts
1212 upvotes
Toronto
Maybe it's just me but I've only seen one site that takes bit coin as payment for a VPN service. I hardly see the point in the currency and am not really sure how it is even worth real money... But that's me, wasn't there bit coin farming devices where you could use your computer to make them yourself? I get the tin foil hatters don't want to be watched by big brother, but is it actually true that the currency is used for a lot of illegal activity?
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 26, 2003
30269 posts
2473 upvotes
Winnipeg
how are things working out for you op? things like what you are trying to accomplish has been tried, I'm curious to know if you can pull it off.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Nov 18, 2005
10810 posts
2152 upvotes
Kingston
brunes wrote:
Nov 22nd, 2013 6:32 am
I think you are over-complicating it. There is no reason that a digital dollar would eliminate todays dollars. Your bills all already have inidividual serial numbers. You could in theory make a system today where you could take paper money and desposit it into a digital wallet of some kind, destroying the paper money in the process and moving it into the digital world. And then if you wanted to take your digital money and make it physical, you visit some kind of bank of canada ATM and withdraw your dollars back into plastic. It is totally possible to have digital currency without getting rid of the dollar.
It could be even less complicated than that. You could take your paper currency to a building (we'll call them banks) and they would take it and record it in a wallet (or account) without destroying it. They could just put is in a big secure box (or vault). And then if you wanted to take your account money in physical form you could return to that building or even machines sprinkled all over the planet, enter a PIN and convert the dollars in your wallet/account into physical form. Totally possible without bitcoins. :D
Deal Guru
User avatar
Oct 24, 2012
11421 posts
2396 upvotes
Montreal
Bitcoin only is what it is today because money launderers find it useful.
That's my belief as I can't think of any other reason as to why it is appreciating so quickly.
Deal Addict
Dec 11, 2007
1822 posts
372 upvotes
Markham
just saw Richard Branson on CNBC this morning say that Virgin Galactic now accepts bitcoins as method of payment lol
[OP]
Member
Nov 23, 2007
413 posts
40 upvotes
divx wrote:
Nov 22nd, 2013 9:33 am
how are things working out for you op? things like what you are trying to accomplish has been tried, I'm curious to know if you can pull it off.
Things are not working out too well, I sold at $588.00 and Bitcoins are now worth over $800.00
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 26, 2003
30269 posts
2473 upvotes
Winnipeg
trilinearmipmap wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2013 1:20 am
Things are not working out too well, I sold at $588.00 and Bitcoins are now worth over $800.00
yep, that's what I expected, myself and others tried this and few other things and lost money on it, I wanted to see if anyone else can pull it off. Experimentation costs money.
Banned
Apr 15, 2006
4572 posts
124 upvotes
Chatham
alkizmo wrote:
Nov 22nd, 2013 10:07 am
Bitcoin only is what it is today because money launderers find it useful.
That's my belief as I can't think of any other reason as to why it is appreciating so quickly.
Maybe its time for you to educate yourself?

Director of FinCEN said " Cash is still the best method for laundering money" in Senate hearing few days ago.

Bitcoin isn't just a digital currency, its a new technology for a secured public ledger (blockchain). Price has gone up due to more ppl are involved with this technology. The days when ppl look at bitcoin and think its mainly used for criminal activities are over.
Deal Addict
Mar 5, 2011
1061 posts
109 upvotes
jetway1212 wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2013 6:41 am
Maybe its time for you to educate yourself?

Director of FinCEN said " Cash is still the best method for laundering money" in Senate hearing few days ago.

Bitcoin isn't just a digital currency, its a new technology for a secured public ledger (blockchain). Price has gone up due to more ppl are involved with this technology. The days when ppl look at bitcoin and think its mainly used for criminal activities are over.

HAHA,

what is it used for then??
Deal Expert
User avatar
Dec 11, 2005
19011 posts
1447 upvotes
JWL wrote:
Nov 22nd, 2013 9:50 am
It could be even less complicated than that. You could take your paper currency to a building (we'll call them banks) and they would take it and record it in a wallet (or account) without destroying it. They could just put is in a big secure box (or vault). And then if you wanted to take your account money in physical form you could return to that building or even machines sprinkled all over the planet, enter a PIN and convert the dollars in your wallet/account into physical form. Totally possible without bitcoins. :D
The problem with todays model is it is impossible for me to transfer you money without getting a middleman involved. This is what needs to be possible with any digital currency system. For digital currency to replace cash, there needs to be a way for any two random people to exchange money without a third party being involved. You can do this with bitcoin, you can't do it with digital dollars CURRENTLY. But there is no reason this needs to be the case, like I said, if the Bank of Canada wanted to they could make this happen using today's dollars. I totally see this coming not only with the bank of canada but also the Fed. The Fed is not just going to sit on their hands if bitcoin starts gaining steam.
To be nobody but yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. -- E. E. Cummings
Deal Addict
May 17, 2013
1775 posts
279 upvotes
brunes wrote:
Nov 22nd, 2013 6:32 am
I think you are over-complicating it. There is no reason that a digital dollar would eliminate todays dollars. Your bills all already have inidividual serial numbers. You could in theory make a system today where you could take paper money and desposit it into a digital wallet of some kind, destroying the paper money in the process and moving it into the digital world. And then if you wanted to take your digital money and make it physical, you visit some kind of bank of canada ATM and withdraw your dollars back into plastic.
There no purpose to this at all. We can already do all of this.

There is something called cash and something called credit. Credit is easily extended to others to make electronic transactions, which you later settle yourself in your own accounts using your cash. Whats the purpose of scanning some dollar bill, destroying it physically and then adding it in e-format. Just have the cash as it is, and use the credit system to do everything else you need.
Banned
Apr 15, 2006
4572 posts
124 upvotes
Chatham
sunshinemoonlight13 wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2013 5:21 pm
There no purpose to this at all. We can already do all of this.

There is something called cash and something called credit. Credit is easily extended to others to make electronic transactions, which you later settle yourself in your own accounts using your cash. Whats the purpose of scanning some dollar bill, destroying it physically and then adding it in e-format. Just have the cash as it is, and use the credit system to do everything else you need.

This is the big misconception. Its shockingly popular : CC is electrical cash. So why do we need digital currency.

You actually top it all with your argument
Whats the purpose of scanning some dollar bill, destroying it physically and then adding it in e-format
Wow...
Banned
Apr 15, 2006
4572 posts
124 upvotes
Chatham
totheh8ters wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2013 2:26 pm
HAHA,

what is it used for then??
I think we know damn well b4 bitcoin, money laundering didnt exist and all criminal activities used tide detergents for transactions...

If you didnt get it, go buy a new sarcasm meter.
Deal Addict
May 17, 2013
1775 posts
279 upvotes
jetway1212 wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2013 7:27 pm
This is the big misconception. Its shockingly popular : CC is electrical cash. So why do we need digital currency.

You actually top it all with your argument


Wow...
Brunes brought up the concept of destroying physical dollars when they are deposited in an electronic wallet, as an alternative method of having electronic currency backed by a central bank. This is not practical.

I am well aware of the difference between credit and cash.

The advantage of an electronic currency, as opposed to physical cash, is e-commerce and electronic payment. But credit can already be used for these purposes. Hence there is no need for a digitized currency. Everything can simply be done as they are today, using credit for payment, and then settled via a a third party clearing member like Visa or Mastercard, or electronic debit via banks.

A real currency, backed by a central bank, is obviously better than some digital based currency of which very very few people actually know the specific technical details of. Many of you guys are simply users. The same users thinking having a 'password' for their email login means nobody else can read the content.

And if youre going to want an 'alternative to fiat', then the existing physical stuff like gold and silver will do just fine.

Nowadays people are turning to physical variants of the bitcoin backed by some third party company. Seriously, whats the point of this now? Just stick to gold or fiat currency of a central bank. If fiat currencies fail, then you have gold.
Banned
Apr 15, 2006
4572 posts
124 upvotes
Chatham
sunshinemoonlight13 wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2013 8:24 pm

The advantage of an electronic currency, as opposed to physical cash, is e-commerce and electronic payment. But credit can already be used for these purposes. Hence there is no need for a digitized currency. Everything can simply be done as they are today, using credit for payment, and then settled via a a third party clearing member like Visa or Mastercard, or electronic debit via banks.

As a CC user do you see other options than the big 3 CC companies? The credit card is not designed for internet. It was designed in 1952. Taking CC payment over internet is just a convenience of handing over your identity and rely completely on third party. The underlining of the system is still an outdated banking system.

As a merchant, transaction fees takes a considerable amount of your profit (average of 2.5% - 3.25%of your sale) Considering how tight margin of most ecommerce retailers its generally accepted as the tax for online business. Effectively, you dont think it doesnt cost consumers do you?

sunshinemoonlight13 wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2013 8:24 pm
A real currency, backed by a central bank, is obviously better than some digital based currency of which very very few people actually know the specific technical details of. Many of you guys are simply users. The same users thinking having a 'password' for their email login means nobody else can read the content.
What made you say currency backed by central bank is "real" and others are not?. Whats the definition of currency? if i accept tide detergent for my goods/services, does it mean its not "real" currency?. This is the most confused subject in people eyes. Another interesting question is what is the difference between currency and money?

As for your analogy of email and password, its completely irrelevant to bitcoin as without my private key you CAN NOT have control of my bitcoin. The "data" you can retrieve from bits and bytes of my connection is meaningless. Further more, bitcoin is NOT anonymous as the media mislead. All the transaction can be traced and if you're not careful, your identity can be linked to transactions/wallet. Silkroad is a perfect example. Hence the Department of Homeland Security and FinCen are very much saying their current policies are still effective.


sunshinemoonlight13 wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2013 8:24 pm
And if youre going to want an 'alternative to fiat', then the existing physical stuff like gold and silver will do just fine.

Nowadays people are turning to physical variants of the bitcoin backed by some third party company. Seriously, whats the point of this now? Just stick to gold or fiat currency of a central bank. If fiat currencies fail, then you have gold.
Gold and Silver are highly speculative. What is the intrinsic value of gold? i see goldbugs always use this term when they discredit bitcoin. The funny thing is they probably dont know. The actual utility of gold is only around 30%. Silicon or Aluminum is actually more useful than gold.

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