Automotive

BMW questions and answers

Banned
Feb 25, 2016
307 posts
84 upvotes
KSport wrote:
Jun 25th, 2016 3:30 am
When you say RWD is 'funner' I see performance that is actually worse. The fastest way around a track is not sideways. And when you say AWD is numb I see it as 'instant traction'. It's a constant issue I have with people who call themselves 'auto enthusiasts' (insert rolleyes here). All I see is people clinging to outdated technology. All we can do is agree to disagree...while at the same time manual and RWD options are rapidly disappearing :)
I have prejudices against 4WD that i think are well founded. 4WD often requires the vehicle to be taller, in order to accommodate the driveline stuff in front - you can see this very clearly in pickup trucks. It increases mechanical complexity and expense of purchase and maintenance. It increases weight and unsprung weight. Under conditions in which 2WD vehicles are spinning their tires, 4WD can offer better acceleration traction. But all cars have 4-wheel braking systems, so stopping is not improved. 4WD systems with open differentials are not really much better than 2WD. A 2WD system with a limited slip differential, or electronic traction control can come close to 4WD performance in snow, provided that there is enough weight above the wheels to provide needed friction force, and provided that the tires are appropriate for the job. Tires trump everything. A few months ago, I assisted a frightened driver who couldn't get her 4WD SUV down a hill in icy conditions. Besides lack of skill, her main problem was terrible tires. 4WD was of no use to her.
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Jun 3, 2006
7682 posts
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Markham
BernardMarx wrote:
Jun 25th, 2016 9:39 am
I have prejudices against 4WD that i think are well founded. 4WD often requires the vehicle to be taller, in order to accommodate the driveline stuff in front - you can see this very clearly in pickup trucks. It increases mechanical complexity and expense of purchase and maintenance. It increases weight and unsprung weight. Under conditions in which 2WD vehicles are spinning their tires, 4WD can offer better acceleration traction. But all cars have 4-wheel braking systems, so stopping is not improved. 4WD systems with open differentials are not really much better than 2WD. A 2WD system with a limited slip differential, or electronic traction control can come close to 4WD performance in snow, provided that there is enough weight above the wheels to provide needed friction force, and provided that the tires are appropriate for the job. Tires trump everything. A few months ago, I assisted a frightened driver who couldn't get her 4WD SUV down a hill in icy conditions. Besides lack of skill, her main problem was terrible tires. 4WD was of no use to her.
TL;DR: AWD helps you accelerate but does not help you stop, but better tires do. But for most drivers who think they "need" AWD, the cost (weight, complexity) outweighs the benefit.
Sr. Member
Oct 27, 2013
705 posts
136 upvotes
Mississauga
That's why he said its funner. A lot of people are looking to buy sports cars because they're fun to drive, not because they're looking to shave a few tenths off on a track with a car that is a daily commuter too.

Fun >>>>>>> few tenths. Not to mention the fact that you'll need to improve a sh1t ton of things about your track driving before the awd actually matters, and learning to drive a rwd car will probably sharpen your skills more.
KSport wrote:
Jun 25th, 2016 3:30 am
When you say RWD is 'funner' I see performance that is actually worse. The fastest way around a track is not sideways. And when you say AWD is numb I see it as 'instant traction'. It's a constant issue I have with people who call themselves 'auto enthusiasts' (insert rolleyes here). All I see is people clinging to outdated technology. All we can do is agree to disagree...while at the same time manual and RWD options are rapidly disappearing :)
Jr. Member
May 8, 2016
185 posts
80 upvotes
thesearchfordean wrote:
Jun 25th, 2016 6:32 pm
That's why he said its funner. A lot of people are looking to buy sports cars because they're fun to drive, not because they're looking to shave a few tenths off on a track with a car that is a daily commuter too.

Fun >>>>>>> few tenths. Not to mention the fact that you'll need to improve a sh1t ton of things about your track driving before the awd actually matters, and learning to drive a rwd car will probably sharpen your skills more.
'Fun' is a subjective thing. Your idea may be different than mine so there is no real answer here. Just opinion.
Deal Addict
Apr 5, 2016
2464 posts
1305 upvotes
Calgary/Vancouver
My mechanic said the same thing. He's actually selling his STi because it's not fun anymore. AWD makes things too easy. He's now shopping for a RWD or FWD track car because it's more fun and less predictable. He had an E46 M3 which he regrets selling.
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Nov 2, 2013
5246 posts
1113 upvotes
Edmonton, AB
thesearchfordean wrote:
Jun 25th, 2016 6:32 pm
That's why he said its funner. A lot of people are looking to buy sports cars because they're fun to drive, not because they're looking to shave a few tenths off on a track with a car that is a daily commuter too.

Fun >>>>>>> few tenths. Not to mention the fact that you'll need to improve a sh1t ton of things about your track driving before the awd actually matters, and learning to drive a rwd car will probably sharpen your skills more.
Yep. People often rave about performance but forget that unless it is a dedicated track car like a GT3, most cars see little time on track where the performance differences show. In daily driving you hardly care whether your 0-100 is 0.2s faster or something or how fast you can rip around a corner. Otherwise Mercedes wouldn't make so much money selling cars like the SL or S class. The SL65 or S65 is >200K and still takes high 3.x seconds range 0-100 and are heavy. Or if you do, you'd likely get yourself behind bars.
KSport wrote:
Jun 25th, 2016 3:30 am
When you say RWD is 'funner' I see performance that is actually worse. The fastest way around a track is not sideways. And when you say AWD is numb I see it as 'instant traction'. It's a constant issue I have with people who call themselves 'auto enthusiasts' (insert rolleyes here). All I see is people clinging to outdated technology. All we can do is agree to disagree...while at the same time manual and RWD options are rapidly disappearing :)
Read my previous post- I mentioned manufacturers are increasingly going to AWD and Automatics for performance gains and practicability. RWD is just funner.
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Serving Western Canada since 2013
Sr. Member
Apr 24, 2014
947 posts
353 upvotes
If anyone here has the DCAN USB cable for the BMW and is willing to lend me it, could you please PM me?
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jul 30, 2007
21105 posts
6001 upvotes
Toronto
hybrid09 wrote:
Jun 26th, 2016 4:49 pm
If anyone here has the DCAN USB cable for the BMW and is willing to lend me it, could you please PM me?
You need to disclose your city / location. Otherwise, nobody is going to respond to your request.
Sr. Member
Apr 24, 2014
947 posts
353 upvotes
booblehead wrote:
Jun 26th, 2016 6:05 pm
You need to disclose your city / location. Otherwise, nobody is going to respond to your request.
Realized I didn't have it in my profile. I'm in the Richmond Hill area.
Sr. Member
Dec 24, 2009
610 posts
231 upvotes
What are people leasing m235is these days for? Possible to be under $800/month 0 down 48 month with the premium pack? Edit: Tax in
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jul 30, 2007
21105 posts
6001 upvotes
Toronto
In theory, of course you can.

M235 RWD
Manual
Prem pkg only
Non metallic color
8% discount off
$750 factory leasing credit
approx. $2700 in freight/pdi and other fees rolled in
2.9% interest
residual 43%
20,000km per yr
$0 down
first & security due on delivery

Calculated $633 + taxes, depends on where you are
Sr. Member
Feb 10, 2004
632 posts
39 upvotes
Mississauga
thesearchfordean wrote:
Jul 4th, 2016 9:11 pm
Is there any way to get my hands on an M2 before the end of the year?
Extremely unlikely, unless you're willing to pay a premium...I think someone is selling one for $78K on Autotrader right now. AFAIK, pretty much all dealerships have wait lists now until well into next year, some are saying 2018.

I got extremely lucky as both the number 1 and number 2 spot at my dealership dropped out....my M2 just landed in Halifax so I should get it in a couple of weeks :cheesygri

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