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Locked: Bombardier wants federal bailout after receiving $1 billion from Quebec

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  • Oct 31st, 2017 9:13 am
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Pete_Coach wrote:
May 19th, 2017 8:35 am
And the bunfight begins.....
Canada warns it may cancel Boeing jet buy over Bombardier probe
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/ca ... ier-probe/

Can hardly contain myself waiting for the NAFTA negotiations....Trump vs whoever is within reach :)
at least rate, trump might as well close the border
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Investigating just means that. Does that mean we are subsidizing bombardier and they are guilty? Let them investigate I don't see a big deal.
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Mike2000z28 wrote:
May 19th, 2017 12:59 pm
Investigating just means that. Does that mean we are subsidizing bombardier and they are guilty? Let them investigate I don't see a big deal.
then it is also no big deal that ottawa is "reconsidering" the defense procurement plan.
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Mike2000z28 wrote:
May 19th, 2017 12:59 pm
Investigating just means that. Does that mean we are subsidizing bombardier and they are guilty? Let them investigate I don't see a big deal.
I don't know enough about the issues at hand here but it's not hard to argue that both the federal and Quebec governments have handed billions upon billions of dollars to Bombardier over the years. They didn't use ALL of those dollars to pay their executives big bonuses.
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Mike2000z28 wrote:
May 19th, 2017 12:59 pm
Investigating just means that. Does that mean we are subsidizing bombardier and they are guilty? Let them investigate I don't see a big deal.
How hard would they need to investigate to find the billions and billions of dollars Bombardier got from the governments? 30 seconds on Google? LOL
Is it solipsistic here? Or is it just me?
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Boeing is heavily subsidized by federal, state, and local governments in the US. Going after Bombardier for a few hundred million and risking military contracts in the billions sounds like the kind of thing Donald Trump would do in a negotiation. Knowing the Liberals though they probably signed iron clad contracts for the new jets and can't back out.
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hugh_da_man wrote:
May 19th, 2017 1:20 pm
Boeing is heavily subsidized by federal, state, and local governments in the US. Going after Bombardier for a few hundred million and risking military contracts in the billions sounds like the kind of thing Donald Trump would do in a negotiation. Knowing the Liberals though they probably signed iron clad contracts for the new jets and can't back out.
which big corp isn't subsidized? the auto industry bailout and the bank bailout was huge in the last crash, i won't be surprised boeing isn't getting subsidized in some ways too.
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divx wrote:
May 19th, 2017 1:53 pm
which big corp isn't subsidized? the auto industry bailout and the bank bailout was huge in the last crash, i won't be surprised boeing isn't getting subsidized in some ways too.
The fact that they're all subsidized is the point. Boeing is complaining about unfair subsidies when they are heavily subsidized and it makes them more competitive. Accusing your competitor of dumping for below cost because they were able to make a more cost effective product is typical American behavior even though they usually claim to be the pinnacle of free market capitalism.
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divx wrote:
May 19th, 2017 1:53 pm
which big corp isn't subsidized? the auto industry bailout and the bank bailout was huge in the last crash, i won't be surprised boeing isn't getting subsidized in some ways too.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... f85f98489d

US states often subsidize big corps (Boeing in WA, Tesla in NV, Volkswagen in TN, etc.) to set up shop in their state, or to stay there. Governors basically use taxpayer money to "keep jobs" in their state... in order to keep their job.

Exact same thing in Canada with Premiers catering to their big businesses... QC with Bombardier, ON with Ford, FCA, etc..

Corporate threats aren't hollow... if you don't offer them a handout, they'll move to somewhere that will. They have a duty to shareholders to follow government carrots. It's a sticky situation where government shouldn't be subsidizing one business over another, but nothing happens in a vacuum. Principles only take you so far when the playing field is uneven.
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Boeing Says It Wants To Stop Bombardier From Building Bigger Planes
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/05/29 ... 67352.html
MONTREAL — Boeing says its trade complaint against Bombardier is designed to prevent the Montreal-based rival from using subsidies to produce a larger version of the CSeries plane that would directly compete with its own flagship narrow-body 737 aircraft.

Last week, Boeing filed a document with the U.S. International Trade Commission that sheds new light on the trade dispute between the two aerospace manufacturers.

In the 109-page filing, Boeing says Bombardier would be positioned to build a full-fleet of single-aisle planes — repeating a strategy employed by French aerospace company Airbus — if Canadian subsidies to Bombardier are left unaddressed.

Bombardier says in a separate filing that Boeing's effort to shut down its innovative technology from the market is "misguided,'' adding that Boeing's complaint is tantamount to asking the U.S. International Trade Commission to imagine a hypothetical world in the future.

The company says its CSeries commercial jet isn't an imminent threat to Boeing because the first planes won't be delivered to Delta for another year, Boeing doesn't sell a comparable product and Boeing's production is sold out for about eight years.

Boeing has petitioned the U.S. Commerce Department and the U.S. International Trade Commission to investigate subsidies for Bombardier's CSeries aircraft that it says have allowed the company to export planes at well below cost.

A preliminary determination on the petition is expected by June 12.
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divx wrote:
May 19th, 2017 1:53 pm
which big corp isn't subsidized? the auto industry bailout and the bank bailout was huge in the last crash, i won't be surprised boeing isn't getting subsidized in some ways too.
All big corporations are subsidized in some way.
Bombardier has been the subject of such an investigation before and nothing has come of it. as will this one. Boeing is just concerned (as is Airbus) that Bombardier will build bigger aircraft and be in direct competition with it's bread and butter aircraft, the 737.
The Brazilian government and Embraer has been after Canada and Bombardier for decades now with the C series, but before that it was Challenger vs Legacy and CRJ vs ERJ regional jets and even Q400 vs ATR turbo props.
Is it solipsistic here? Or is it just me?
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Bombardier the latest U.S. trade target
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/u-s-trad ... -1.3451318
Bombardier Inc (TSX: BBD.A) is the latest Canadian corporation to be targeted by the Trump regime in its increasingly belligerent trade agenda. The U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) ruled on Friday that Bombardier has supposedly been dumping its aircraft onto the market at “less than fair value”.

The sticking point here is the dubious reputation of the ITC when it comes to determining “fair value” for trade products which compete against U.S. producers. The obvious example is the 30+ year trade dispute between Canada and the U.S. on softwood lumber.

The ITC has ruled consistently that Canada’s softwood lumber products have been subsidized and thus sold at less-than-fair-market value. The problem? The ITC’s definition of “fair value” with respect to softwood lumber is a totally arbitrary number which cannot be supported by any economic literature or previous trade precedents.

The U.S. has a long-standing reputation for bullying and harassing its trade partners – all the while positioning itself as “the Champion of free trade”. Clearly the allegations against Bombardier are somewhat more complex, in that determining the “fair value” of modern jet aircraft is a much more detailed process than determining the fair value of a two-by-four of wood. Thus the legitimacy of this action against Bombardier is less-easy to determine.
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U.S. airlines throw support behind Bombardier in Boeing trade dispute
Two U.S. airlines have sided with Bombardier Inc. in its trade dispute with rival Boeing Company, urging the U.S. government to reject Boeing's complaint, calling it inappropriate and harmful to American consumers.
http://business.financialpost.com/trans ... de-dispute
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tk1000 wrote:
Sep 9th, 2017 9:45 am
U.S. airlines throw support behind Bombardier in Boeing trade dispute
Two U.S. airlines have sided with Bombardier Inc. in its trade dispute with rival Boeing Company, urging the U.S. government to reject Boeing's complaint, calling it inappropriate and harmful to American consumers.
http://business.financialpost.com/trans ... de-dispute
yeah the two ghetto carriers. If Southwest joined the pack maybe it would carry more weight.
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tk1000 wrote:
Sep 9th, 2017 9:45 am
U.S. airlines throw support behind Bombardier in Boeing trade dispute
Two U.S. airlines have sided with Bombardier Inc. in its trade dispute with rival Boeing Company, urging the U.S. government to reject Boeing's complaint, calling it inappropriate and harmful to American consumers.
http://business.financialpost.com/trans ... de-dispute
Of course they "throw support behind Bombardier", they are getting a good deal on the aircraft they are buying from Bombardier. Just another customer standing up for it's supplier.
Is it solipsistic here? Or is it just me?

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