Real Estate

Brokerage paying the foreign buyers tax Ontario

  • Last Updated:
  • May 21st, 2017 3:48 pm
Tags:
None
Member
Oct 13, 2011
423 posts
189 upvotes
Sanyo wrote:
May 17th, 2017 1:23 pm
I agree they should work. I hate welfare. It should only be in extreme cases and only for 6 months. Some people never have motivation to leave it.

But this is why I laugh at people who say "oh no foreigners pleasee" and yet 1/3rd of this country pays no taxes, receives many benefits. Cant have it both ways.
As a foreign buyer in the US myself, I play by the rules and paid my taxes to Uncle Sam and I see how my investments contribute to the US economy. Thus, I pretty much expect the foreign buyers in Canada will also pay their fair share of taxes and make a positive contribution to the country.
Sr. Member
Sep 30, 2011
645 posts
167 upvotes
MISSISSAUGA
Rothesay wrote:
May 17th, 2017 11:59 am
I don't like them if they don't pay their tax. ie. Not reporting rental income or capital gain. And I also don't like the ones that freeload the health and education system by sending their kids and parents here as landed immigrant but not reporting their global income and pay their fair share of Canadian income tax.

Otherwise, I have no issue with them and welcome their investment.
Good you bring the tax thing up, actually foreigners including immigrant to Canada had paid much net benefit to this country.

Every skilled worker class immigrant come here with education, better work ethics, willing to study new things; and benefit the country most. It is very rare that immigrant can get into the lazy but highly paid public sector jobs that are hired through nepotism.
It is EXTREMELY rare that immigrant sleep on welfare either - I am saying a good more than 100 Chinese people that I know of, 0 at welfare. After a few years shock of Canadian "Value", some left for good, the rest all find way up and for sure including get a house.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Aug 15, 2013
573 posts
274 upvotes
Guelph
melcon wrote:
May 17th, 2017 7:26 am
there you go!

I have no idea why the gov didn't make it higher.
plus, there are ways to avoid it, like register a company in Canada and buy it under its name, etc.
Because they didn't want to actually correct the market as much as show a willingness to do that.
Deal Addict
Feb 9, 2009
4326 posts
2086 upvotes
Rothesay wrote:
May 17th, 2017 1:33 pm
As a foreign buyer in the US myself, I play by the rules and paid my taxes to Uncle Sam and I see how my investments contribute to the US economy. Thus, I pretty much expect the foreign buyers in Canada will also pay their fair share of taxes and make a positive contribution to the country.
They do.

a) Property tax
b) int'l tuition
c) they generally spend more in the economy (ie luxury cars, clothes, etc with higher HST)
d) land transfer tax

The kids will integrate into society, pay taxes, open businesses or work here.
Now they will also pay a FBT and also a cap gains tax since foreigners will be tracked. Blame Canada for this not foreigners... the idiots here have no clue what they are doing. All they do is suck you dry with high taxes and pocket it themselves.
Member
Oct 13, 2011
423 posts
189 upvotes
Sanyo wrote:
May 17th, 2017 1:35 pm
They do.

a) Property tax
b) int'l tuition
c) they generally spend more in the economy (ie luxury cars, clothes, etc with higher HST)
d) land transfer tax

The kids will integrate into society, pay taxes, open businesses or work here.
Now they will also pay a FBT and also a cap gains tax since foreigners will be tracked. Blame Canada for this not foreigners... the idiots here have no clue what they are doing. All they do is suck you dry with high taxes and pocket it themselves.
Agree. Like I said before, I would blame the government for not enforcing the rules to create this anti-foreigner sentiment.

And to be fair, aside from the cases you pointed out. There are also cases where:

(a) The buyer purchase the property as an investment and not report the rental income or declare capital gain when they sell the property
(b) The mother and the kids become landed immigrants, while the father stays abroad and make mega bucks. And come tax time, the mother and the kids will report $0 income and pay $0 tax and gets to enjoy all the benefits that are available to Canadian while living in their mansion and driving their Mercedes.

As we pointed out, there are good foreign buyers and bad foreign buyers to Canada. The government need to do something to weed out or deter the bad ones from coming, and they are doing it wrong as I don't think a 15% FBT will be able to sort out the good ones from the bad ones.
Deal Addict
Dec 5, 2009
4532 posts
2378 upvotes
Sanyo wrote:
May 17th, 2017 1:33 pm
Late slip.
Lol

3rd thread on this in 24 hours.
Deal Addict
Feb 9, 2009
4326 posts
2086 upvotes
Rothesay wrote:
May 17th, 2017 1:47 pm
Agree. Like I said before, I would blame the government for not enforcing the rules to create this anti-foreigner sentiment.

And to be fair, aside from the cases you pointed out. There are also cases where:

(a) The buyer purchase the property as an investment and not report the rental income or declare capital gain when they sell the property
(b) The mother and the kids become landed immigrants, while the father stays abroad and make mega bucks. And come tax time, the mother and the kids will report $0 income and pay $0 tax and gets to enjoy all the benefits that are available to Canadian while living in their mansion and driving their Mercedes.

As we pointed out, there are good foreign buyers and bad foreign buyers to Canada. The government need to do something to weed out or deter the bad ones from coming, and they are doing it wrong as I don't think a 15% FBT will be able to sort out the good ones from the bad ones.
True but to be fair those people cannot escape property taxes, int'l tuition (until child is PR or citizen) or countless other costs that they must pay HST on. If they are declaring zero income it's actually true they arent making any it's the Dad overseas. If they are PR or Canadian citizens they are legally allowed to benefits like anyone else.

Its like a boomer who reports no income but lives in a million dollar house and gets GIS -- is that fair?

Thats the problem where do you draw the line?
Newbie
Aug 22, 2012
85 posts
74 upvotes
Mark Town
Foreigners pay taxes. But compare those people with local Canadians are not fair.

In any society, there are vast number of poor people. The society is always a pyramid. The people at the bottom may not pay taxes, and many receiving hand out but on the other side they buy things from local shops, spending most of their income locally.

Without those people, the society will collapse.

Foreigners are different matter. They are buying detached houses driving up prices because land is a scarce resource. Their numbers are not large enough to form the foundation of the society yet they can drive up prices of land quickly in short period. In many countries, foreigners are forbidden to own detached houses.

Unlike stocks, detached houses cannot be thought as a pure investment that anyone in the world can own. Selling stocks to foreigners have few side effects and the supply is unlimited. Land on the other side is not unlimited supply.
Deal Addict
Feb 9, 2009
4326 posts
2086 upvotes
sherwoodRFD wrote:
May 17th, 2017 2:42 pm
Foreigners pay taxes. But compare those people with local Canadians are not fair.

In any society, there are vast number of poor people. The society is always a pyramid. The people at the bottom may not pay taxes, and many receiving hand out but on the other side they buy things from local shops, spending most of their income locally.

Without those people, the society will collapse.

Foreigners are different matter. They are buying detached houses driving up prices because land is a scarce resource. Their numbers are not large enough to form the foundation of the society yet they can drive up prices of land quickly in short period. In many countries, foreigners are forbidden to own detached houses.

Unlike stocks, detached houses cannot be thought as a pure investment that anyone in the world can own. Selling stocks to foreigners have few side effects and the supply is unlimited. Land on the other side is not unlimited supply.
Many places where there are restrictions the country is already bloating with people (China, India, etc) and not necessarily looking to add too many more people with immigration. Many have FBT or restrictions like Toronto (think Sydney, Singapore, etc)

But in our globalized world those trying to attract investment also know they cant also dive to much into the deep end or else you will lose their investment over time to grow and be stagnant. Canada is a mature country, much of the wealth here is peaked. Either people already wealthy from old money or poor people who will leech off gov't. Your middle class is shrinking and will because of factors out of Canada's hand like globalization. Canada cannot be a shut out society or else it will suffer. Lot of investment lately, especially in things like oil has come from foreigners (USA, China, Brazil, etc).Without their money we may not grow as much. Some of those people also want to live here and hence invest in homes.

Is it their fault they have more money? Sure some though corrupted ways, some maybe money laundering. But lots of them are legit people who have worked hard and coming here. You cannot criminalize someone who made their money overseas. It's then a matter of looking at ourselves and seeing how we can improve ourselves to be on par with many of these foreign investors

Never did I think CDN would ever cry about Chinese or Middle East investments... it's sad really. Too much taxation, lower it and cut waste! Build innovation and ways to grow the economy. Germany is a mature economy but so good at innovation and hence why wages there can be high. Canada has not done that and continues to be a laggard in so many areas... maybe it's time for the gov't to wake up and get the ball rolling. Too much welfare, too many benefits, not enough incentives for people to create jobs and build a better Canada...
Member
Oct 13, 2011
423 posts
189 upvotes
Sanyo wrote:
May 17th, 2017 2:27 pm
True but to be fair those people cannot escape property taxes, int'l tuition (until child is PR or citizen) or countless other costs that they must pay HST on. If they are declaring zero income it's actually true they arent making any it's the Dad overseas. If they are PR or Canadian citizens they are legally allowed to benefits like anyone else.

Its like a boomer who reports no income but lives in a million dollar house and gets GIS -- is that fair?

Thats the problem where do you draw the line?
In defence to the boomer, most would have paid income tax during their working years, so they have already made contribution to the country.

Under the scenario I described, it is clearly the government not enforcing the law or not closing loop holes that allows other to get out from a technicality. In most cases, CRA should have deemed the father to be a legal resident of Canada because of his ties to the country, thus requiring him to pay income tax on his worldwide income. Otherwise, it will be unfair to the Canadian who works abroad but continue to file their income tax here in Canada.

I know this is simply a matter of my own opinion, and obviously you're entitled to yours. And like you said, it is very difficult to draw the line, and we don't even get any prizes or compensation for the time we spent debating this.
Deal Addict
Feb 9, 2009
4326 posts
2086 upvotes
Rothesay wrote:
May 17th, 2017 2:52 pm
In defence to the boomer, most would have paid income tax during their working years, so they have already made contribution to the country.

Under the scenario I described, it is clearly the government not enforcing the law or not closing loop holes that allows other to get out from a technicality. In most cases, CRA should have deemed the father to be a legal resident of Canada because of his ties to the country, thus requiring him to pay income tax on his worldwide income. Otherwise, it will be unfair to the Canadian who works abroad but continue to file their income tax here in Canada.

I know this is simply a matter of my own opinion, and obviously you're entitled to yours. And like you said, it is very difficult to draw the line, and we don't even get any prizes or compensation for the time we spent debating this.
Just cause you paid income tax all those years doesnt mean you should be entitled to any sort of handout, especially with a large house. Sell it if you have no income, move to a condo or something. No one should be handing out anything. I guess people in other countries with no pension should deserve it cause they paid income tax? Again this is just a Canadian privilege way of thinking and it's actually bankrupting us.

ANyways yes the CDN gov't could have the father pay income tax... but let's be real how will they enforce it if he is not a PR or citizen of this country? Again if there is no law about needing to be same citizenship as your spouse or child. Yes it may suck for some but there is very little that can be done.
Newbie
Aug 22, 2012
85 posts
74 upvotes
Mark Town
Even the father is considered as a non resident, the family needs to take his income as count when applying for social benefits and tax deductions.

For example, let's say the wife makes 0 income and the husband makes $1 million (overseas). The family legally is required not to pay tax but the wife cannot get child benefits either because the global income it too high, just like a local Canadian family with the same income.

For non-resident taxing, the rule is that you may not pay income tax but you have to report global income and the global net income is used to determine tax deductions and benefits.

Unfortunately, most PR holders do not report any foreign income. Not reporting foreign income is a standard practice in Asian countries. I know that some Taiwanese accountants publicly told their clients who working in both China and Taiwan to report one side income only.
Sr. Member
Jun 12, 2007
860 posts
130 upvotes
GTA
Sanyo wrote:
May 17th, 2017 2:27 pm
If they are declaring zero income it's actually true they arent making any it's the Dad overseas. If they are PR or Canadian citizens they are legally allowed to benefits like anyone else.
They are NOT legally allowed to declare 0 income if they are PR or Canadian citizens and the husband makes mega bucks (regardless where in the world). Just because it's very hard for CRA to enforce it doesn't mean it's legal.

Top