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Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 12:34 am
by manogah
to both gulmoch and repooch..what did you guys end up continuing your studies in? I have heard that even MSc students are in similar situations

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 1:27 am
by Quitco
manogah wrote: to both gulmoch and repooch..what did you guys end up continuing your studies in? I have heard that even MSc students are in similar situations

Truly this thread disgusts me, as a BSc I always thought we were worth more then this...

To answer your question MSc actually get it tougher imo, I hear so many stories of MScs being unemployed because they are too qualified. Someone here said to stay away from science, I would say they're right. It is insane how many science undergrads can not obtain decent employment.

As an aside, I dropped out of a BSc co-op program simply for the fact that I could not easily find meaningful employment for my first co-op term (and I tried!), after consulting with several masters level students the majority told me that they would do things differently if they had to do it over again. A telling sign. I immediately switched to business after I finished university. Just went straight to admin work in an office. I was low balled at 14.00 dollars an hour and I was outraged but after hearing this I guess I should've considered myself lucky... I continued on to obtain a CMA and now work in finance as a financial analyst.

I loved / love science, I find the material is intellectually stimulating and enjoy understanding more about the world. However that doesn't put food on the table or pay for a mortgage.

Good luck to you all, I feel for you.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 8:48 am
by setell
gulmoh wrote: Here are a few rules regarding these type of degrees. Unless you are willing to go into a Masters/PhD program, professional programs (medicine, dentistry, Pharmacy, medical radiation sciences, etc), NEVER EVER EVER EVER GO NEAR THEM!!!!!!

Stay clear of any Biology, life science, biochemistry, chemistry, zoology, etc degrees!!!

You will have sleepless nights memorizing and understanding complex systems only to graduate with no prospects. NOT WORTH IT!!! ANY KIDS READING THIS, UNDERSTAND, NOT WORTH IT!!!!!

Take it from someone who has a degree in one of those and couldn't even find a minimal wage job. I eventually continued my education and got a job right out of school making 3x more than what the OP was offered.
Creepy how I agree with you on this. I always discourage kids to go and get a BSc with dreams of getting into med. Most will not get into med then stuck with a very useless degree.
Quitco wrote: Truly this thread disgusts me, as a BSc I always thought we were worth more then this...

To answer your question MSc actually get it tougher imo, I hear so many stories of MScs being unemployed because they are too qualified. Someone here said to stay away from science, I would say they're right. It is insane how many science undergrads can not obtain decent employment.

As an aside, I dropped out of a BSc co-op program simply for the fact that I could not easily find meaningful employment for my first co-op term (and I tried!), after consulting with several masters level students the majority told me that they would do things differently if they had to do it over again. A telling sign. I immediately switched to business after I finished university. Just went straight to admin work in an office. I was low balled at 14.00 dollars an hour and I was outraged but after hearing this I guess I should've considered myself lucky... I continued on to obtain a CMA and now work in finance as a financial analyst.

I loved / love science, I find the material is intellectually stimulating and enjoy understanding more about the world. However that doesn't put food on the table or pay for a mortgage.

Good luck to you all, I feel for you.
haha guess we did the same thing. I switched gears and will get my CMA soon too. Accounting sure pays a heck lot more than a BSc will.

On the flip side, OP have you consider say an accounting designation? If you took basic accounting courses and pass the Accelerated Program you can get a CMA too. It's the easier of 3 accounting designations to get for us science grads. I know accounting is getting saturated but don't undercut your own skills you've picked up while getting your BSc. We're damn good at analazing and pulling insane hours too (well I am :) )! Labs + tutorials + lectures = many additional hours a business grad never had to endure on top of the course workload.

EDIT: got a few friends that have their PhD's in chem and having issues finding a job so...another advice is don't get too specialized in your field or it REALLY sucks too.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 9:08 am
by JHW
Quite simply, the supply of science graduates at all levels (BSc, MSc, PhD) exceeds demand for them in the workplace.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 9:45 am
by Syne
e-mail sent


xxxx@impopharma.com, xxxx@impopharma.com
Good morning,

It has come to my attention that a recent job opening posted for your company is offering a minimum wage ($21,000yr full-time) salary position with the expectation of overtime. Unless I was misinformed, the qualifications wanted are a university degree.

Speaking as someone who is over $50,000 in student debt after obtaining a B.Sc. and a 3yr College diploma, I just want to say it's sad and sickening to see postings like this. Not only are students plagued by opportunistic employers in the form of unpaid internships, but when they do find a paying job, often we find employers trying to skirt minimum wage laws by offering a "salary" such as yours. It would be funny if it wasn't so heartbreaking. That is the absolute lowest salary that can be offered in the province of Ontario by law. Just understand that if you do fill this position, assuming 2 weeks vacation (after all, why give more than the minimum, right?), you cannot require your worker to put in less than 40.97 hours of work in a week.

It's unfortunate that companies need constant oversight to ensure that they are following Ontario labour laws. I sometimes fear that nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

Have a good day,

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 12:40 pm
by fr33style
I empathsize with the OP, it's very hard coming out of undergrad and realizing that prospects aren't too good, especially without connections. Personally, I didn't know this and felt that I wasn't prepared for this shock, even starting from high school. However, there are many jobs in the sciences to be had if you look in the right areas.

University Lab Tech positions pay at least 30K in my experience, it's a good palce to talk while gaining experience. Talk to Professors/PIs directly about these positions, I'm sure you know a few.

1-year college postgraduate programs can be very helpful (like you mentioned in QA). Some colleges have co-op placements at pharma companies which really opens the door for employment. Many employers will simply keep you after a co-op placement, as they've already spent the time to train you and have a need. Not only are BScs taking these program but also MScs and PhDs. You can make over 50K easily with your first job.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 12:54 pm
by manogah
pursuing CMA is an option, however, i wonder how many years it will take for this field to become saturated considering the amount of CMA ads I've seen on the TTC subways lol.

[QUOTE]1-year college postgraduate programs can be very helpful (like you mentioned in QA). Some colleges have co-op placements at pharma companies which really opens the door for employment. Many employers will simply keep you after a co-op placement, as they've already spent the time to train you and have a need. Not only are BScs taking these program but also MScs and PhDs. You can make over 50K easily with your first job.[/QUOTE]

this seems like my best bet for now. 1 year program and u get some credentials and hands-on/work experience. But i guess we all just have to ride the wave out and hope for the best. Good luck to all the others in the same situation as me

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 1:57 pm
by Elfer
Don't feel too bad, I've got a BSc in chem eng with a whack of experience from summer jobs and a lengthy internship, and I've been searching for 11 months with no offers. The job market is just really terrible right now.

Also, for people screaming "Entitlement!" because OP didn't take the minimum-wage job: I earned over 30k as a research assistant before I even graduated. The salary at that job is considerably less than the stipend given to many grad students in science programs, for roughly the same type of work and no certification at the end.

My advice is for the time being, either go take some college post-grad courses, or find some part-time work in an unrelated field. Tons of restaurants do extra hiring for the holidays, and it's definitely a boost to at least have some income and something productive to do during the day.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 2:45 pm
by nalababe
The OP has lab experience, correct?

So you should know your Fisher, Mandel, VWR sales, support and service reps by first name...into Genetics, what about Illumina, Life, Roche. Actually, every piece of equipment, every reagents, every chemical is a contact in to a company. You could easily have 20 contacts....in a Clinical Lab maybe 50.

You also have to remember that your career path is like a jungle gym...not a ladder. A friend of mine is a great example: Biochem/Genetics degree, Customer Service, Technical Support, Technical Project Manager, Customer Service Manager Chemical, National Sales Manager.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 4:17 pm
by Poofy
Hi manogah,

I'd like to share my experience with you. I graduated from university with an honours BSc. degree in Biology in 2006. Like you, I was having a hard time finding a job and even considered going to Nursing or Accounting. I was applying to jobs for 4 months, until I found a position for a Regulatory Affairs Specialist position at a Clinical Research site for an investigator. That was the pivotal point in my career as it opened my horizon to regulatory affairs (RA) and the pharmaceutical industry. I worked at the research site for a year, and then decided I wanted to pursue a post-grad degree in RA. I quit my job, applied to the Humber college RA program and got accepted. The program was 8 months, and then got a one year paid internship position at a large pharmaceutical company. After that, I got hired permanently full-time. I'm currently working at the same company and love the work that I'm doing.

My advice: if you're open to QA/QC or RA, definitely apply to Seneca College or Humber College. These post-grad programs are great because they have an internship component. At least that is a foot in the door into the company.

Hope this helps. Don't give up - I've been there and know how you feel

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 5:15 pm
by vlado416
manogah wrote: Hey guys,

So let's start from the beginning. 4 years ago, upon entering university I decided that instead of doing a life sci major that I'd rather do a biochem major so that I would have an upper hand (compared to other BSc) when applying to jobs. 4 years later and having graduated couple months ago, I've applied to hundreds of jobs with minimal luck. I first started off applying specifically within the pharmaceutical industry (which is where I'd actually like to work) but after no call backs, started broadening my approach + fixing/tweaking my resume. Eventually I ended up getting around 5 interviews.

-2-3 interview was a phone interview for CSR position at a biotech company --> after phone interview, haven't heard anything back
-1 interview was at a pigment company --> went through 1st interview, 2nd interview and was told by the interviewee as well as HR manager that i was sure to get the job....but then was told that the company didnt have the money to hire me
-1 interview was at a small pharm development company for lab assistant position, however it was a 2 1/2 year contract with a 21G/yearly salary (which I thought was ridiculously low)

Now, I dunno how hard it is for recent BSc grads out there to get a job with a decent salary considering the economic condition, but for me it certainly isn't easy. So i've considered attending private college to get a pharmaceutical QC/QA diploma hoping that this will give me the 'hands on/practical experience' that the employers seem to be looking for. The program is 10 months, and after talking to the course coordinator at the college, she informed me that 90%+ of their graduates obtain a job within months, and that the college will continually help you to look for a job otherwise. Given my current situation, this seems like the best option for me.

I just want to get a general idea about what you all think, or those of you that are working within the pharmaceutical industry? Is this the best way to go, or is there an alternative approach that would save me money and time (15G for the course).

Btw I completed senior thesis with amazing grades, got an NSERC USRA grant, and also have work experience within a clean room laboratory/analytical lab setting...

Any thoughts, or words of advice? I don't really see any BSc job related career threads so thought I'd post and see if anyone can help.

The whole "pharmaceutical biotech industry" is a giant fraud perpetuated on unsuspecting uninitiated people, quiet frankly it has no future whatsoever . You are better off learning witchcraft which is what pharmacology translates from the ancient Greek or just doing something worthwhile in your life

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 5:16 pm
by nalababe
Poofy wrote: Hi manogah,

I'd like to share my experience with you. I graduated from university with an honours BSc. degree in Biology in 2006. Like you, I was having a hard time finding a job and even considered going to Nursing or Accounting. I was applying to jobs for 4 months, until I found a position for a Regulatory Affairs Specialist position at a Clinical Research site for an investigator. That was the pivotal point in my career as it opened my horizon to regulatory affairs (RA) and the pharmaceutical industry. I worked at the research site for a year, and then decided I wanted to pursue a post-grad degree in RA. I quit my job, applied to the Humber college RA program and got accepted. The program was 8 months, and then got a one year paid internship position at a large pharmaceutical company. After that, I got hired permanently full-time. I'm currently working at the same company and love the work that I'm doing.

My advice: if you're open to QA/QC or RA, definitely apply to Seneca College or Humber College. These post-grad programs are great because they have an internship component. At least that is a foot in the door into the company.

Hope this helps. Don't give up - I've been there and know how you feel

Both of our RA's have come from such a program. One has her PhD, the other a BSc...both love this field of work.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 5:16 pm
by nooks12
Elfer wrote: Also, for people screaming "Entitlement!" because OP didn't take the minimum-wage job: I earned over 30k as a research assistant before I even graduated. The salary at that job is considerably less than the stipend given to many grad students in science programs, for roughly the same type of work and no certification at the end.

Which salary is considerable less than the stipend given to many grad science grad students? 30K? Or the 21K/year offered to OP? I'm a grad student in an Ontario University and my full stipend is $21K/year (includes teaching assistantship). After paying tuition and other expenses (student health & dental insurance, bus pass) it's not much! In fact it's $1000/month left for rent, food, etc. Science grad students are cheap, almost slave labour for research profs, but what you get out of it in return is a grad degree (supposedly to bring you future increased wages). $21K/yr entry level job for a university educated person is just sad...But, if I was in OP's shoes and was desperate for experience in the science field and there was nothing else on the table I would take the job and keep looking (aggressively) for other opportunities. And I guess that's just what those low-paying jobs are good for...getting somewhere else.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 5:17 pm
by gulmoh
manogah wrote: to both gulmoch and repooch..what did you guys end up continuing your studies in? I have heard that even MSc students are in similar situations


I ended up doing medical radiation sciences at the UofT/Michener.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 6:38 pm
by mefromparadise
Syne wrote: e-mail sent


xxxx@impopharma.com, xxxx@impopharma.com
Good morning,

It has come to my attention that a recent job opening posted for your company is offering a minimum wage ($21,000yr full-time) salary position with the expectation of overtime. Unless I was misinformed, the qualifications wanted are a university degree.

Speaking as someone who is over $50,000 in student debt after obtaining a B.Sc. and a 3yr College diploma, I just want to say it's sad and sickening to see postings like this. Not only are students plagued by opportunistic employers in the form of unpaid internships, but when they do find a paying job, often we find employers trying to skirt minimum wage laws by offering a "salary" such as yours. It would be funny if it wasn't so heartbreaking. That is the absolute lowest salary that can be offered in the province of Ontario by law. Just understand that if you do fill this position, assuming 2 weeks vacation (after all, why give more than the minimum, right?), you cannot require your worker to put in less than 40.97 hours of work in a week.

It's unfortunate that companies need constant oversight to ensure that they are following Ontario labour laws. I sometimes fear that nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

Have a good day,

:) )) hahahhaaa. Same company. They interviewed over 30 people over 3 days. I sent my share of stinky emails to them afterwards. I hope the rest did too. There was this girl in the midst of our group with a PhD. She had just came out of maternity with tons of pharma experience. I don't know how the dare treat people like that.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 8:24 pm
by fr33style
By the way 21K/year is ridiculous. Summer students (undergrads) at the company I work at get an hourly wage of $17-18/hour - the lowest paid position here.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 8:44 pm
by virgilaug
Have you tried all the pharma companies. Apotex http://www.apotex.com/global/careers/default.asp has a lot of offerings on but a lot are for techs or the others require 3-5 years of experience. The other route is to look at healthcare facilities (ie. hospitals). There are a lot of jobs at hospitals that are listed as "Researcher" and state that they require a Bsc degree in a related field to the position. You could also try @ universities but the most they offer would be lab ta positions. Or you can get further education. Give nursing a try. Universities offer Bsc Nursing degrees to be done in 2 years if you already have a degree, but be careful because there is very high competition to get in.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 1st, 2011 10:11 pm
by janesBydiction
gulmoh wrote: Here are a few rules regarding these type of degrees. Unless you are willing to go into a Masters/PhD program, professional programs (medicine, dentistry, Pharmacy, medical radiation sciences, etc), NEVER EVER EVER EVER GO NEAR THEM!!!!!!

Stay clear of any Biology, life science, biochemistry, chemistry, zoology, etc degrees!!!

You will have sleepless nights memorizing and understanding complex systems only to graduate with no prospects. NOT WORTH IT!!! ANY KIDS READING THIS, UNDERSTAND, NOT WORTH IT!!!!!

Take it from someone who has a degree in one of those and couldn't even find a minimal wage job. I eventually continued my education and got a job right out of school making 3x more than what the OP was offered.

For anyone in the cheap seats who happened to miss this. Thank you for keeping it real.

Till this day I don't understand why everyone craps on BA graduates when BSc grads aren't faring much better.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 4th, 2011 1:54 pm
by Didi_beee
Syne wrote: e-mail sent


xxxx@impopharma.com, xxxx@impopharma.com
Good morning,

It has come to my attention that a recent job opening posted for your company is offering a minimum wage ($21,000yr full-time) salary position with the expectation of overtime. Unless I was misinformed, the qualifications wanted are a university degree.

Speaking as someone who is over $50,000 in student debt after obtaining a B.Sc. and a 3yr College diploma, I just want to say it's sad and sickening to see postings like this. Not only are students plagued by opportunistic employers in the form of unpaid internships, but when they do find a paying job, often we find employers trying to skirt minimum wage laws by offering a "salary" such as yours. It would be funny if it wasn't so heartbreaking. That is the absolute lowest salary that can be offered in the province of Ontario by law. Just understand that if you do fill this position, assuming 2 weeks vacation (after all, why give more than the minimum, right?), you cannot require your worker to put in less than 40.97 hours of work in a week.

It's unfortunate that companies need constant oversight to ensure that they are following Ontario labour laws. I sometimes fear that nobody is holding their feet to the fire.

Have a good day,

Wow! I actually applied for a position with them not knowing what the salary would be but was aware that it was an entry level position. I went to the interview and they told me the pay would be "21". I said, "per hour?", thinking that wasn't too bad, then the the president of the company told me that it was per year and I just basically laughed inside. She then went on to say that after working for one year, you may possibly train for the chemist position and increase to 28k per year, and benefits are included but no dental and vision. LOL!!! I've been working at the University of Waterloo for almost 2 years now and my salary has increased almost 75% since I've started. Its still contract but its a great job and pays a lot more than what Impopharma was offering even for their chemist position. It amazes me how some companies can take so much advantage of new grads just like that.

If you can find work at a higher institution like a college or university, they pay quite well, offer an excellent learning atmosphere and depending on the professor you work for, can help you so much along the way. The only downside is that its hard to find a full time position in the university so you won't have benefits, but many contract extensions. I prefer flexible job hours over benefits anyway.

There is a program called Federal Public Sector Youth Internship Program which offers new grads that are under the age of 30 a chance to gain entry into the work force. Try giving this a chance, but it may be pretty competitive. I was able to get into one with Environment Canada but the work was situated in University of Waterloo. After working a few months at Waterloo as an intern, they hired me after wards for work in the lab.

Re: BSc Biochemistry + lab experience = no entry level job?

Posted: Dec 4th, 2011 2:18 pm
by Zelig
Didi_beee wrote: If you can find work at a higher institution like a college or university, they pay quite well, offer an excellent learning atmosphere and depending on the professor you work for, can help you so much along the way. The only downside is that its hard to find a full time position in the university so you won't have benefits, but many contract extensions. I prefer flexible job hours over benefits anyway.

Eh, university contract positions aren't mutually exclusive with benefits. I'm on a series of renewable contracts with a university where I get full benefits.