Real Estate

Buyer not closing on firm deal

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  • Oct 20th, 2017 9:52 am
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Mar 23, 2003
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Hamilton
KristieL867234 wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 10:02 pm
Not a conditional offer at this point. As mentioned, this was a result of his final walk thru - after he had waived all conditions and firmed up. We had another offer on the property for the same $ and were in the middle of signing it back when he came back firm. So we could have sold it otherwise. Perhaps he felt pressured to firm up or he'd lose it and is now feeling buyer's remorse.
offer your max, and don't waste time and games.
Say 10K, or see you in court. Don't forget all the fancy legal jargon of what your options are if he doesn't close.
don't release. Don't give him his deposit.
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Jul 3, 2011
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Thornhill
If your lawyer didn't provide a caution other than as you stated, they erred.

Mould is hazardous to health and in this case possibly an unknown to you (latent) defect. It might very well be that the buyer is fos, but that is what they claimed to smell, that is what you are also remediating, that is what your lawyer per you, didn't adequately protect you from.
KristieL867234 wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 9:59 pm
The quote was only $7k so I'm guessing it wasn't enough for him, as I do think this was part of a bigger plan to get the cost down significantly in a softer market.
Did they ask for a reduced price?

What would cause a fridge to leak liquids or spoiled food onto the baseboards?
[OP]
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Sep 9, 2017
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We need some more info. What was the date the sale agreement was signed. What is the closing date? How much do you think is the difference between the sale price and what you could get now?
[/quote]

Sale agreement was signed firm (all conditions waived) in mid July with a September 1st closing, which has been amended to September 14th the idea being we would come to an agreement on how to move forward.

I'm guessing about $25 - $30,000? But that's really a guess. When a sold house hits MLS again it certainly makes it look more like we're in a "must sell" position. If I was a buyer, I would offer far less aggressively.

This is not including all of the carrying costs, and the significant legal costs so far as this buyer decided to really drag this out.

And the cost of the new inspection which gave us the clean bill of health - that was $1500 on its own.
[OP]
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Sep 9, 2017
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The fridge was against a wall, trimmed in baseboards as you would expect. It's literally watermarks on it from condensation - nothing significant. I was an idiot and unplugged it - there's hardly ever anything in it but we'd had a summer bbq and a guest had put food in it because the fridge upstairs was full. Just a stupid mistake.

Yes I think our lawyer is a bit too laid back in this instance - wishy washy. Very "well it's up to you" rather than - no do not submit to the inspection - which is likely what he should have said.

We've been really accommodating so far and sometimes you think you just have to carry on with the requests and proceed to close. Maybe we're idiots but we were a bit clueless to our rights.

Now we're trying to make the best decision.

Yes mould is a toxin - agreed. We took it seriously when the report came back. But then we had our own done, and took a closer look at his and the company who did it and red flags went off.
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Mar 23, 2003
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licenced wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 10:14 pm
If your lawyer didn't provide a caution other than as you stated, they erred.

Mould is hazardous to health and in this case possibly an unknown to you (latent) defect. It might very well be that the buyer is fos, but that is what they claimed to smell, that is what you are also remediating, that is what your lawyer per you, didn't adequately protect you from.

Did they ask for a reduced price?

What would cause a fridge to leak liquids or spoiled food onto the baseboards?
But if they are offering full remediation by an accredited contractor isn't that problem fixed and should not affect the deal now.?

I would assume it lost power or compressor failed.
Melted, and stuff spoiled/spilt. Esp if it was not a frost free freezer at the top.
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Jul 3, 2011
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Thornhill
So what exactly are you remediating and at what cost?
KristieL867234 wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 10:24 pm
The fridge was against a wall, trimmed in baseboards as you would expect. It's literally watermarks on it from condensation - nothing significant. I was an idiot and unplugged it - there's hardly ever anything in it but we'd had a summer bbq and a guest had put food in it because the fridge upstairs was full. Just a stupid mistake.
[OP]
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Sep 9, 2017
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Basically our contractor says we will follow a typical remediation schedule BECAUSE this buyer is holding on to his report as if it's the only truth, and is not "interested in any competing inspections or a difference of opinions among experts". So the contractor says they would come, remove the drywall 2 feet on all exterior walls, check for any mold and remove any they see. Then replace the drywall, and use an "air scrubber" to remove any mold spores from the air.

That's all he can suggest as he cannot see any visible mold or any indications of water penetration or excess moisture.

So it's a bit vague - but he cannot point to a "source" since he does not see any evidence of mold.

This purchaser is maybe a bit paranoid - "what if there's something behind the drywall?" But how far are we supposed to go with this to satisfy his paranoia? If there's a leaky faucet are we expected to pull the vanity off the wall and check all the plumbing? He had a full home inspection and an appraisal. We let him tour the home 2 extra times outside the original conditions in his offer so he could show it off to his parent's. He's had ample opportunity to find any defects. And he's pulling this in the 11th hour when we've already moved out completely and are living elsewhere.
[OP]
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Sep 9, 2017
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To clarify, we are not offering to remediate anything because we don't feel there's an issue - we are offering an abatement in the amount of double the quote prepared by a contractor following the "inspection" completed by the buyer's "mold inspector", as that's the only document he will entertain (likely cause he knows it's a farce).
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Thornhill
KristieL867234 wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 10:50 pm
To clarify, we are not offering to remediate anything because we don't feel there's an issue - we are offering an abatement in the amount of double the quote prepared by a contractor following the "inspection" completed by the buyer's "mold inspector", as that's the only document he will entertain (likely cause he knows it's a farce).
and

1) why are you offering a reduction/abatement?
2) why is it based on the contractor's quote?

I presume this contractor is a mould remediator?
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Mar 23, 2003
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KristieL867234 wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 10:50 pm
To clarify, we are not offering to remediate anything because we don't feel there's an issue - we are offering an abatement in the amount of double the quote prepared by a contractor following the "inspection" completed by the buyer's "mold inspector", as that's the only document he will entertain (likely cause he knows it's a farce).
I think if you do it in such a way, you are validating the mould issue.
However, offering double the cost payment = problem solved.
Maybe don't mention any acceptance and a payout due to his inspection report.
Just offer a discount out of the "kindness" of your heart on paper.
ofcourse, your lawyer should have the best options for you at this point.
Seek more than one legal opinion maybe?
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Way Out of GTA
KristieL867234 wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 9:59 pm
The closing date was September 1st - it's already past. Initially he requested an extension so we could have time to come to an agreement. He requested his final walk through 2 weeks before the closing, so mid August. His home inspection was completed 3 weeks prior. Nothing changed with our home in the 3 weeks. He stated he "wasn't interested in a competing inspection or a differing opinion of experts" so we asked a contractor to bid on the work as if it was worst case scenario. Our lawyer sent his the quote and asked him to call him to discuss a possible abatement (price reduction) and steps forward. He never called - instead sent a letter stating he wanted a mutual release. The quote was only $7k so I'm guessing it wasn't enough for him, as I do think this was part of a bigger plan to get the cost down significantly in a softer market. We have a solid amount of equity and were willing to give up $10k to just have things firm up. Our realtor thinks we could end up selling for "10's of thousands of dollars" less. That's not including the carrying costs we're incurring.
It sounds like you are using your transactional lawyer so far, which you have to keep in mind aren't really in the game of suing and going to court for these types of issues. I think you may need to talk to a lawyer more knowledgable and able to litigate properly for you.
[OP]
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Sep 9, 2017
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We are offering it in an effort to get him to close. That's all. We've totalled up our carrying costs and estimated our potential losses and feel it makes more $ sense to offer an abatement then roll the dice and see what this soft market gets us.

Our lawyer is advising the abatement so that we can prove we have satisfied his concerns and therefore he doesn't have a reason not to close - I'm guessing it protects us in the future should we choose to litigate.

Yes the contractor is from a remediation company - very well known and highly qualified. They've been in business for over 30 years. His expert is a home inspector that wanted to upsell his business so he took some courses and bought equipment to add a "mold test" to his list of services. He's been in business since 2015.
[OP]
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Sep 9, 2017
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Yes I agree - that was my concern. We're not offering this because we think there's a problem, we're doing it to calm your concerns and move forward.
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Jul 3, 2011
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Thornhill
sidshock wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 10:54 pm
I think if you do it in such a way, you are validating the mould issue....Seek more than one legal opinion maybe?
+1
cartfan123 wrote:
Sep 10th, 2017 10:56 pm
It sounds like you are using your transactional lawyer so far, which you have to keep in mind aren't really in the game of suing and going to court for these types of issues. I think you may need to talk to a lawyer more knowledgable and able to litigate properly for you.
+1
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Jul 27, 2010
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Detroit
I would just move on if i were you. If you take him to court he will pull out that report and that is it. BTW, mold is not toxic. Many people including seniors live in moldy houses or even basement and have no effects at all. It is only a problem if you are allergic to mold but many people are not. It just an annoyance.

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