Caeer Oppurtunities: Comp Eng vs. Comp Sci?

[Tharyn]

Also, one of the key differences between CompE and EE, (at Waterloo) is that CompE's never touch Power Systems, or motor physics and such, rather they spend time learning about RTOSes, and Assembly.

Therefore, in response to the post above no a CompE could not do everything a EE could do, and nor could an EE do everything a CompE could do. Although CompE is a specialization of EE, they are still inherently different.

--Mark

[toalan]

umm yes and no. Power systems is just circuits runing at 60Hz so if you know circuits you should not be too lost in power systems, you get into gauss elimination and gauss sidel stuff, but they are not too hard. Motor control is a joke, not too much to learn in there, atleast i did not learn anything in that course.

I can not comment about RTOS, but I learned assembly on my own as part of my hobbies.

Well maybe I made an error in my comment, I did not mean that CE could do all EE and CS stuff right out of the school. What I meant was that CE has the basis to quickly learn most EE and CS material, infact it would be mostly trivial for CE to learn anything.

I have great respect for good CE guys they really need to master alot more stuff than EE and CS.

[toalan]

School is not about learning stuff infront of you, it is about knowing what you do not know.

For instance in CE you do not learn motors and power systems but you know it is out there, so atleast you know that there is more and you can seek out the knowledge.

In CS you live in a world that is all about programming, you do not even know that power systems, control systems etc... is out there, so you will never try to seek it out.

Knowing what you do not know is as important as knowing what you know.

[gheart008]

Knowing what you do not know is as important as knowing what you know.

Well said!

[siriuskao]

You have the computer science person that will know how to code in a specific language. However, the computer engineer (or software engineer) will be the person that actually comes up with the language in the first place... So this is why computer engineers will be more prestigious than computer scientists (not to mention it's a lot harder to get that engineering degree as well) Hope that helps..

this is so wrong. computer science is all about algorithm/math, therefore creation of new language, algorithms are generally developed or interest for computer scientist. software engineering is about process.

IMO programming is not the true focus of a computer science degree, anybody can pick up a "Sam teach yourself XXX in 24hrs" and learn programming. If all you want is learn Java might as well save your $$$ and learn it at a college or read a book.

[gheart008]

You have the computer science person that will know how to code in a specific language. However, the computer engineer (or software engineer) will be the person that actually comes up with the language in the first place... So this is why computer engineers will be more prestigious than computer scientists (not to mention it's a lot harder to get that engineering degree as well) Hope that helps..

That statement has no validity whatsoever. I have no idea where you get your ideas from where you openly state that computer languages are created by computer engineers... if anything, it's the other way around buddy.

[hugh_da_man]

While I think both are similar and have some similar knowledge, the Computer Engineer has a different life span than the Comp Sci grad.

If you are doing compsci for code related research then it's excellent. If you like code related research I don't recommend engineering. A lot of engineers go for graduate studies but the people I know who were interested in programming and grad studies eventually ended up in computer science anyways...with great hassle. If you want to do hardware research (nanotech or whatever) then engineering is for you.

My only problem with recommending someone get a compsci degree is that someone in India or another developing country can do it better and cheaper. Your job is only here till it becomes cheaper for your company to offshore the work.

Computer engineers should always have work. We are the people that develop the systems and ideas. Sure compsci's can do it too but every R&D company I've known employs engineers for development and testing. The computer science grads do coding of all types (compilers, drivers, applications, etc) but the original idea usually comes from the higher ups and those people are usually engineers. Engineers are professionals. Comp sci's aren't considered professionals.

An engineer will start off writing code but there is an opportunity to move up. Engineers are exposed to project management, ethics, ecomonics, etc. and are pushed to thinking about the higher level before thinking about the specifics. They still learn all the theory and practical applications but they are also given a strong dose of management.

I know a lot of rich compsci's who work in great fields but I know a lot more compsci's who work in call centres for software companies while the engineers work in the head office.

------

Oh and about the EE vs CE thing. CE is not ~= CS and every employer I've talked to understands that. EE and CE are similar but when asked by people who don't know my explanation of the difference is this.

EE = hardware w/ very little sw experience
CE = software/hardware w/ little attention to hardware applications (ie, power although it's really easy and the concepts were taught to the CE anyways)
SE = software w/ no hw. Their knowledge of hardware is usually equivalent to that of a compsci but their attention to design and project management is far superior to anything an EE or CE sees for project management.

The CE is the middle ground but usually it's the person who is interested in integration. I might not design the radio in a car but I'm the person the electrical engineer needs to make sure the computer integrates with it. They are all important and I've seen nearly equal job opportunities for all of them. Also, don't forget that engineering is not that specific. I know CE's that are resevoir engineers and Civil's that are doing programming. You can do anything you want with an engineering degree.

[dmdsoftware2]

Some companies, like IBM, will accept a "Computer Science Specialist in Software Engineering" when they are looking for "Engineers" for a position (even though they realize the Software Engineering is not really Engineering.

Having made it through a specialist in software engineering, the only difference is that you need to take 3 engineering courses that someone taking any of the other computer science streams would not take.

[zoo]

My only problem with recommending someone get a compsci degree is that someone in India or another developing country can do it better and cheaper. Your job is only here till it becomes cheaper for your company to offshore the work.

Computer engineers should always have work.

Haha, dream on.



The entire high tech and computer industry has already moved on to China and India. The demand for people like us (EE, CE, SE, CS) in North America is currently at an unprecedented low; the only companies that will hire us are the ones that can't afford (or are too stubborn/proud) to outsource to India or China.

Most of my fellow engineering friends are unemployed now, or fighting for jobs to make $30-40 thousand per year, jobs that don't really offer any promise aside from being "experience." Even a 3 year business degree will earn you more than that.

Also, as an Electrical Eng, we do almost as much programming as a Comp Eng. The programming that a Comp Eng does is also much less than that which a Software Eng does. A Software Eng is taught to approach coding like an engineer; it's all about the design process. They are teaching you to become the indestructible coder who can apply his skills to any challenge, any situation. The Comp Sci is taught how to apply his knowledge in a scientific way, it's more of a research oriented program, and this results in an education that focuses towards academics instead of applications. This is why so many Comp Sci students graduate to a dissapointing job market; instead of coding artificial intelligence or distributed computing machines, they end up joining a code team to find bugs in a program for a store's inventory database. Most Comp Sci jobs are not very glamorous.

If you like electronics, Comp Eng or Elec Eng are for you. If you dislike electronics, Comp Sci or Software Eng is for you. If you dislike coding, Comp Sci and Software are not for you. If you strongly dislike coding, Comp Eng is not for you either. We do code in Elec Eng, but it's only required up to the 3rd year level. Beyond that it's your choice.


Also, at McMaster Uni in Hamilton, you can take a 5 year combined degree called Engineering and Management. It means you can choose your 4-year degree in whatever discipline, and you take an extra 20 courses in business -- these 20 courses are the required courses for a 3 year degree in commerce. Other schools you can take similar programs at are Western, Ottawa, and possibly Queens. McMaster in addition offers you one year's credit towards your MBA after this 5 year program, as does Ottawa, and York's Schulich school of business. I intend on completing my one year MBA at one of these three schools.

Engineering and Science are interesting fields, but they aren't the big money making fields they once were.

[Cyber6]

With that said, I honestly don't think it matters if you want to work in the software industry. Many companies view the two fields in a very similar light -- they're both 'university-grade programmers'. I've met a mix of CS,SE,CE, and even EE, in all sorts of software-oriented positions...

Agree with supernerd... (gee does that make me a nerd too???... )

In any case.. choose whichever "tickles your fancy"... cause baby, you are not going anywhere unless you actually like it. Is hard enough for us people who like it.. imagine how hard is for the one who don't even like it.


C.

[m77m7]

Typical arrogance from an engineering grad. Coding and programming are such a small part of comp sci in both the academic and practical ("real world") sense. Engineers aren't professional until they get their P.Eng.

Also, India and China (and Taiwan) have engineers as well who "take" your jobs as you are are talking about. There are many other things in your post that are very ill-informed, but the most outrageous one is the implication that comp sci's don't move up from coding. They can become team leads, project managers, development managers, VPs, consultants, and many many more (think graphics an AI). If you go into consulting, it is unlikely that you will write any code whatsoever. Its all about requirement studies and other written work.

Your observations may be true for your particular workplace, but not true in general.

While I think both are similar and have some similar knowledge, the Computer Engineer has a different life span than the Comp Sci grad.

If you are doing compsci for code related research then it's excellent. If you like code related research I don't recommend engineering. A lot of engineers go for graduate studies but the people I know who were interested in programming and grad studies eventually ended up in computer science anyways...with great hassle. If you want to do hardware research (nanotech or whatever) then engineering is for you.

My only problem with recommending someone get a compsci degree is that someone in India or another developing country can do it better and cheaper. Your job is only here till it becomes cheaper for your company to offshore the work.

Computer engineers should always have work. We are the people that develop the systems and ideas. Sure compsci's can do it too but every R&D company I've known employs engineers for development and testing. The computer science grads do coding of all types (compilers, drivers, applications, etc) but the original idea usually comes from the higher ups and those people are usually engineers. Engineers are professionals. Comp sci's aren't considered professionals.

An engineer will start off writing code but there is an opportunity to move up. Engineers are exposed to project management, ethics, ecomonics, etc. and are pushed to thinking about the higher level before thinking about the specifics. They still learn all the theory and practical applications but they are also given a strong dose of management.

I know a lot of rich compsci's who work in great fields but I know a lot more compsci's who work in call centres for software companies while the engineers work in the head office.

------

Oh and about the EE vs CE thing. CE is not ~= CS and every employer I've talked to understands that. EE and CE are similar but when asked by people who don't know my explanation of the difference is this.

EE = hardware w/ very little sw experience
CE = software/hardware w/ little attention to hardware applications (ie, power although it's really easy and the concepts were taught to the CE anyways)
SE = software w/ no hw. Their knowledge of hardware is usually equivalent to that of a compsci but their attention to design and project management is far superior to anything an EE or CE sees for project management.

The CE is the middle ground but usually it's the person who is interested in integration. I might not design the radio in a car but I'm the person the electrical engineer needs to make sure the computer integrates with it. They are all important and I've seen nearly equal job opportunities for all of them. Also, don't forget that engineering is not that specific. I know CE's that are resevoir engineers and Civil's that are doing programming. You can do anything you want with an engineering degree.