Food & Drink

Can we have a mature discussion re vegetarianism/veganism?

  • Last Updated:
  • May 31st, 2017 11:42 pm
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Jul 23, 2007
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For a number of years now, I've put either apple cider vinegar or balsamic vinegar on my salad instead of oil, but I don't think in terms of the apple cider helping protect me from Canada's number one killer, heart disease. More than likely it's the salad greens. No guarantees of course.
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Aug 16, 2010
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Aurora
qman23 wrote:
May 17th, 2017 4:22 pm
I hear you dude... at one point I didn't think there was anything I could eat that didn't cause one problem or another. The final straw for me was getting gout after being 100% vegetarian for a year, and being told it was too much purine in my diet. Turned out in my case that it was too much fruit, as fructose can cause uric acid levels to rise.
That experience of self diagnosis and subsequent recovery was the beginning of the end of my vegetarianism, and the start of questioning a lot of conventional wisdom about nutrition.
If you still have gout issues in spite of cutting out purines, I'd suggest looking into the fructose/gout connection.
Thanks qman23, I've never heard of this before. I'll do some research on this fructose gout connection. Worst case, it does nothing for me. Best case, it helps. Nothing lost to look it up.
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Jun 21, 2016
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qman23 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 8:03 am
no to the meds.
I had a lot of issues, some quite serious, that became progressively worse over time. The gout was just one more on a long list of other physical complaints.
Dr. wanted to put me on allopurinol for the gout and told me to cut back on red meat. (already V at this point)
After looking into potential causes and finding the fructose connection, I cut back on it the gout disappeared. So I fired my Dr., started researching things on my own. Over the next 2 years, all my health issues resolved completely. I now eat huge amounts of purines as part of my diet, with no gout. No illnesses of any kind. In the past 8 years I've had 2 minor colds and that's it.
Wait you had gout and it disappeared from cutting out fructose?
I don't have gout so I haven't been reading on it, but my Grandma has it and I knew that fructose was a trigger for gout attacks. That's why I read the ingredients list on things she eats and don't let her eat things with high fructose corn syrup. It's also labeled as glucose-fructose.
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Apr 18, 2017
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yeah, It was pretty apparent for me.
I had been keeping a food journal, systematically went back over eating changes I'd made just prior to getting gout.

Fructose is in a lot of things.
As you know high fructose corn syrup is 55%fructose and 45% glucose,
but even table sugar, (sucrose) which is added to everything it seems, is 50% fructose.
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Stryker wrote:
May 18th, 2017 8:41 am
For a number of years now, I've put either apple cider vinegar or balsamic vinegar on my salad instead of oil, but I don't think in terms of the apple cider helping protect me from Canada's number one killer, heart disease. More than likely it's the salad greens. No guarantees of course.
why no oil? are you getting the fats elsewhere in your meal with that salad? if not, you're losing out on a lot of the vitamins.
i haven't bought bottled salad dressing in ages. i usually make a dressing including raw red wine vinegar/ raw apple cider vinegar/ balsamic, and evoo.
Good, better, best. Never let it rest. 'Til your good is better and your better is best.
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ShoNuff2 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 1:45 pm
why no oil? are you getting the fats elsewhere in your meal with that salad? if not, you're losing out on a lot of the vitamins.
i haven't bought bottled salad dressing in ages. i usually make a dressing including raw red wine vinegar/ raw apple cider vinegar/ balsamic, and evoo.
I get enough fat from other foods. I don't like oil on salads.
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Stryker wrote:
May 18th, 2017 2:41 pm
I get enough fat from other foods. I don't like oil on salads.
as long as you're eating those other fat containing foods in the same meal as the salad it should be adequate. it doesn't necessary have to be oil either. the fat in avocados, nuts, cheese, etc will greatly increase the bio-availability of nutrients in your salad.
Good, better, best. Never let it rest. 'Til your good is better and your better is best.
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Jun 21, 2016
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qman23 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 1:27 pm
yeah, It was pretty apparent for me.
I had been keeping a food journal, systematically went back over eating changes I'd made just prior to getting gout.

Fructose is in a lot of things.
As you know high fructose corn syrup is 55%fructose and 45% glucose,
but even table sugar, (sucrose) which is added to everything it seems, is 50% fructose.
wow I thought if you have gout it's a life-long illness.

So now you never get attacked even eating high purine foods? Only when you eat fructose? Or do you not get attacked even when consuming fructose now?
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Jul 5, 2013
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Saint John
differing wrote:
May 15th, 2017 1:43 am
Most of my diet is vegetarian; I don't keep any meat at home and treat myself to it when I'm out with friends or family. I yearn for the day when we can decouple masculinity and meat eating in Canada; men would live healthier and longer lives as a result. I don't understand what is so macho about having a farmer you've never met raise a cow, have a slaughterhouse you've never seen murder it, and have a butcher you'd probably never talked to carve it up for you - if you're a hunter or a fisherman, then I totally get the cultural value in consuming it. If your entire identity as a male rests on spending a few bucks for a steak at Loblaws, then you've got a hell of an existential crisis coming down the tracks.

I love milk, but I've also started to incorporate more and more Soy milk into my diet. When I was a kid, I bought into that crap about Soy containing estrogens and hurting muscle growth... I wonder if people still believe that crap?

Just curious, have you ever thought you were killing plants when eating fruits and vegetables? They're living organisms as well. Scientists have found that they have feelings and emotions.
[OP]
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demon1102 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 7:48 pm
Just curious, have you ever thought you were killing plants when eating fruits and vegetables? They're living organisms as well. Scientists have found that they have feelings and emotions.
That's a tough one and you're right...isn't everything we consume alive at one pt, maybe save for water? I guess the lesser of evils, until we figure out something even better, or we all convert to Soylent Green (or do they have some bio in there as well?) lol.
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Jun 21, 2016
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Serious question,

If everyone becomes vegan, do you think there will still be animal bred at farms. Or will they cease to exist and go extinct?

Obviously there will be a small chance that everyone will go vegan and if that happens it won't happen in our lifetime but if it does?

And will animals be able to go vegan? I guess they wouldn't be able to think for themselves, so it would be impossible...

I think there will still be animals, but it will be rare/illegal. Some animal lovers may raise farm animals, would be awkward when chickens lay eggs and they're just thrown in the garbage though.
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Jan 7, 2017
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Hamilton
demon1102 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 7:48 pm
Scientists have found that they have feelings and emotions.
...If you're trying to troll me, I already was quite clear that I do eat meat, it's just a tiny fraction of my diet.

If you're not, plants don't have a nervous system. There's evidence that plant cells can send danger signals to other cells, but they do not possess the machinery for any kind of processing at the level of an animal, so what you are proposing is a false equivalency. Furthermore, I'd have no issue eating meat grown in a petri dish. Those cells would also express stress responses like the plants you mention, but leaking chemicals are not "feelings and emotions".
Last edited by differing on May 18th, 2017 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jan 7, 2017
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linsook wrote:
May 17th, 2017 7:39 pm
:facepalm:
What's your issue? Defining your value as a man because you whip out your wallet for a slab of meat instead of a salad is pretty pathetic. We'd be stronger men instead of childish losers if we moved past perverted twists on ancient gender roles. I work in healthcare; there's nothing manly about dying early from a stroke or a heart attack because a real man eats meat and vegetables are for sissies.
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Jun 21, 2016
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differing wrote:
May 18th, 2017 10:46 pm
What's your issue? Defining your value as a man because you whip out your wallet for a slab of meat instead of a salad is pretty pathetic. We'd be stronger men instead of childish losers if we moved past perverted twists on ancient gender roles. I work in healthcare; there's nothing manly about dying early from a stroke or a heart attack because a real man eats meat and vegetables are for sissies.
I'm pretty sure no one thinks like that...people eat meat because it tastes good and has great nutrients. And I have never heard of a man turn down vegetables because they said it was for girls.

You sound like you've been picked on for eating vegetables or something...
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Jan 7, 2017
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toronto19850 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 10:54 pm
I'm pretty sure no one thinks like that...people eat meat because it tastes good and has great nutrients. And I have never heard of a man turn down vegetables because they said it was for girls.
If you don't think our culture links meat-eating with masculinity, then you must watch zero advertising.

Regardless, American men eat twice the meat products that women do despite requiring only 17% more calories. When you plot average meat consumption for men and women with the recommended intake, the evidence from the US government speaks for itself: Image


You sound like you've been picked on for eating vegetables or something...
You sound like you can't have a mature discussion without attacking someone. I keep my dietary choices to myself; I'm posting in here because OP invited people to talk about it. You came in here to insult people and try to make people feel silly for having a brain... what does that say about you?

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