Food & Drink

Can we have a mature discussion re vegetarianism/veganism?

  • Last Updated:
  • May 29th, 2017 12:23 am
Sr. Member
Jun 21, 2016
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qman23 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 1:27 pm
yeah, It was pretty apparent for me.
I had been keeping a food journal, systematically went back over eating changes I'd made just prior to getting gout.

Fructose is in a lot of things.
As you know high fructose corn syrup is 55%fructose and 45% glucose,
but even table sugar, (sucrose) which is added to everything it seems, is 50% fructose.
wow I thought if you have gout it's a life-long illness.

So now you never get attacked even eating high purine foods? Only when you eat fructose? Or do you not get attacked even when consuming fructose now?
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Jul 5, 2013
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Saint John
differing wrote:
May 15th, 2017 1:43 am
Most of my diet is vegetarian; I don't keep any meat at home and treat myself to it when I'm out with friends or family. I yearn for the day when we can decouple masculinity and meat eating in Canada; men would live healthier and longer lives as a result. I don't understand what is so macho about having a farmer you've never met raise a cow, have a slaughterhouse you've never seen murder it, and have a butcher you'd probably never talked to carve it up for you - if you're a hunter or a fisherman, then I totally get the cultural value in consuming it. If your entire identity as a male rests on spending a few bucks for a steak at Loblaws, then you've got a hell of an existential crisis coming down the tracks.

I love milk, but I've also started to incorporate more and more Soy milk into my diet. When I was a kid, I bought into that crap about Soy containing estrogens and hurting muscle growth... I wonder if people still believe that crap?

Just curious, have you ever thought you were killing plants when eating fruits and vegetables? They're living organisms as well. Scientists have found that they have feelings and emotions.
[OP]
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Toronto
demon1102 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 7:48 pm
Just curious, have you ever thought you were killing plants when eating fruits and vegetables? They're living organisms as well. Scientists have found that they have feelings and emotions.
That's a tough one and you're right...isn't everything we consume alive at one pt, maybe save for water? I guess the lesser of evils, until we figure out something even better, or we all convert to Soylent Green (or do they have some bio in there as well?) lol.
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Apr 30, 2017
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demon1102 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 7:48 pm
Just curious, have you ever thought you were killing plants when eating fruits and vegetables? They're living organisms as well. Scientists have found that they have feelings and emotions.
Plants don't have a soul. Plants do not have the wide range of emotions animals possess.

P.S. The word soul used in here doesn't have a religious connotation. It is simply the expression of a quantity of energy.

P.P.S. One first incarnates as a mineral, then one incarnates as a plant, then one incarnates as an animal and then one incarnates as a human being. At least now you know why flowers respond when humans talk to them. But this is way off-topic.
Last edited by JustMe2016 on May 18th, 2017 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sr. Member
Jun 21, 2016
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Serious question,

If everyone becomes vegan, do you think there will still be animal bred at farms. Or will they cease to exist and go extinct?

Obviously there will be a small chance that everyone will go vegan and if that happens it won't happen in our lifetime but if it does?

And will animals be able to go vegan? I guess they wouldn't be able to think for themselves, so it would be impossible...

I think there will still be animals, but it will be rare/illegal. Some animal lovers may raise farm animals, would be awkward when chickens lay eggs and they're just thrown in the garbage though.
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Jan 7, 2017
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Hamilton
demon1102 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 7:48 pm
Scientists have found that they have feelings and emotions.
...If you're trying to troll me, I already was quite clear that I do eat meat, it's just a tiny fraction of my diet.

If you're not, plants don't have a nervous system. There's evidence that plant cells can send danger signals to other cells, but they do not possess the machinery for any kind of processing at the level of an animal, so what you are proposing is a false equivalency. Furthermore, I'd have no issue eating meat grown in a petri dish. Those cells would also express stress responses like the plants you mention, but leaking chemicals are not "feelings and emotions".
Last edited by differing on May 18th, 2017 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jan 7, 2017
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Hamilton
linsook wrote:
May 17th, 2017 7:39 pm
:facepalm:
What's your issue? Defining your value as a man because you whip out your wallet for a slab of meat instead of a salad is pretty pathetic. We'd be stronger men instead of childish losers if we moved past perverted twists on ancient gender roles. I work in healthcare; there's nothing manly about dying early from a stroke or a heart attack because a real man eats meat and vegetables are for sissies.
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Jun 21, 2016
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differing wrote:
May 18th, 2017 10:46 pm
What's your issue? Defining your value as a man because you whip out your wallet for a slab of meat instead of a salad is pretty pathetic. We'd be stronger men instead of childish losers if we moved past perverted twists on ancient gender roles. I work in healthcare; there's nothing manly about dying early from a stroke or a heart attack because a real man eats meat and vegetables are for sissies.
I'm pretty sure no one thinks like that...people eat meat because it tastes good and has great nutrients. And I have never heard of a man turn down vegetables because they said it was for girls.

You sound like you've been picked on for eating vegetables or something...
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Hamilton
toronto19850 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 10:54 pm
I'm pretty sure no one thinks like that...people eat meat because it tastes good and has great nutrients. And I have never heard of a man turn down vegetables because they said it was for girls.
If you don't think our culture links meat-eating with masculinity, then you must watch zero advertising.

Regardless, American men eat twice the meat products that women do despite requiring only 17% more calories. When you plot average meat consumption for men and women with the recommended intake, the evidence from the US government speaks for itself: Image


You sound like you've been picked on for eating vegetables or something...
You sound like you can't have a mature discussion without attacking someone. I keep my dietary choices to myself; I'm posting in here because OP invited people to talk about it. You came in here to insult people and try to make people feel silly for having a brain... what does that say about you?
Jr. Member
Apr 30, 2017
134 posts
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differing wrote:
May 18th, 2017 11:07 pm

I'm posting in here because OP invited people to talk about it.
There are two types of vegetarians; those who do it out of concern for their own selves and those who do it out of concern for the life of innocent creatures. What does it say about the human race when we kill creatures that have done no harm to us? When we kill for pleasure, or for food? We can't be such an advanced civilization after all. Civilization comes from being civilized. And after taking a good look around me, it is dubious that we act in a civilized manner.

OTOH, this planet will survive, but this human race will come to an end. To be replaced, in time, by another race of beings. Nothing can defeat the Law of Cause and Effect. This is what keeps the Universe in Harmony.
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Hamilton
JustMe2016 wrote:
May 18th, 2017 11:51 pm
There are two types of vegetarians; those who do it out of concern for their own selves and those who do it out of concern for the life of innocent creatures.
But I like animals AND I like being healthy by eating less animal fat...
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Apr 30, 2017
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differing wrote:
May 19th, 2017 12:00 am
But I like animals AND I like being healthy by eating less animal fat...
If you start with the premise that all food is poison, (even water is poison - drink a very large quantity of water in a very short time and it will kill you), then the less poison you put in your physical body, the better off you are. A healthy mind in a healthy (physical) body. After all, the physical body is nothing more than a vehicle for your soul.
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Jun 21, 2016
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differing wrote:
May 18th, 2017 11:07 pm
If you don't think our culture links meat-eating with masculinity, then you must watch zero advertising.

Regardless, American men eat twice the meat products that women do despite requiring only 17% more calories. When you plot average meat consumption for men and women with the recommended intake, the evidence from the US government speaks for itself: Image
Unfortunately that chart has NOTHING to do with masculinity.

Men eat more protein because they REQUIRE MORE. RDA is the MINIMUM amount of nutrients you need to stay alive and be healthy. Athletes, bodybuilders, heck even the average male requires way more protein than the average female. Have you ever seen a female the size of an amateur bodybuilder/athelete?

Also, females avoid meat because they're afraid to 'get fat', it has nothing to do with men thinking eating meat is masculine. Ignorance is a shame...
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Hamilton
toronto19850 wrote:
May 19th, 2017 10:18 am
Men eat more protein because they REQUIRE MORE. RDA is the MINIMUM amount of nutrients you need to stay alive and be healthy. Have you ever seen a female the size of an amateur bodybuilder/athelete?
The RDA is the blue range on that chart, read my comment again a bit more carefully next time.
Have you ever seen a female the size of an amateur bodybuilder/athelete?
Muscle growth is a consequence of gene expression and calorie surplus; it has nothing to do with men eating more meat than women, that's just basic biology. Excess protein beyond the RDA is quite literally pissed out after your body has converted the protein's carbon skeleton to fat (it's called nitrogen balance if you'd like to learn some basic kinesiology). The BMR for men is marginally higher 2400 calories vs 2000, so you're looking at about 120 extra calories from protein if you're a male (based on a high protein diet of 30% protein calories)... thats the equivalent of drinking two glasses of milk and two tablespoons of peanut butter; pretty insignificant and doesn't justify the massive increase in meat consumption you describe.
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Jun 21, 2016
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differing wrote:
May 19th, 2017 12:01 pm
The RDA is the blue range on that chart, read my comment again a bit more carefully next time.


Muscle growth is a consequence of gene expression and calorie surplus; it has nothing to do with men eating more meat than women, that's just basic biology. Excess protein beyond the RDA is quite literally pissed out after your body has converted the protein's carbon skeleton to fat (it's called nitrogen balance if you'd like to learn some basic kinesiology). The BMR for men is marginally higher 2400 calories vs 2000, so you're looking at about 120 extra calories from protein if you're a male (based on a high protein diet of 30% protein calories)... thats the equivalent of drinking two glasses of milk and two tablespoons of peanut butter; pretty insignificant and doesn't justify the massive increase in meat consumption you describe.
The RDA is only what you eat to survive and be healthy for the average human. Of course no one actually eats this if they're an athlete, training, workout, labour jobs, more lean body mass, fast metabolisms etc. Males have to consume more, if not they will lose weight/muscle, not gain it. It's simple science as you said. Just like how a cow has to eat more than a chicken, size difference = food requirement difference.

I can't understand how you think females are the same size as males and require the same nutrients. And then your excuse is that men eat more meat for masculinity reason LOL
Tell that to the canadian/american army...only 2400 calories or you're being masculine :facepalm:
Last edited by toronto19850 on May 19th, 2017 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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