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Cap-and-Trade will add 4.3C/L to gas prices

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  • Mar 21st, 2017 9:10 pm
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Penalty Box
Jun 15, 2012
528 posts
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MB
Sanyo wrote:
Jan 1st, 2017 2:48 pm
I could switch it around and say in Saudi gas is virtually free. The US is around 76 cents (and imports much of it's oil from overseas).

And look we could make it much cheaper if we just build the damn pipelines and support our oil industry in Alberta. But nope we cater to the enviro-freaks who justify the non-sense of this cap and trade bs. There is already a lawsuit in California to end the cap and trade program (likely if the gov't wants to be elected there they'll end this nonsense).

And the public transit here is horrid compared to many major cities in the world, our gov't are using this money for other reasons and not the environment... I will believe it when i see it but I guarantee this cap and trade will be disaster and likely within 5 years it will be scraped. We already have manufacturers running for the hills cause of the high cost of business here (hydro, wages, etc), cap and trade is just the next stick for them to go to Mexico or overseas where they dont have to deal with this headache.
If the government would make it even more cheaper, there will be no stimulus for average Canadian to save more fuel. Right now I often observe people to use there vehicles just to get to the nearby store located 200 meters from each other. Or driving those enormous SUVs, pickups, or minivans.
Leaving their vehicles idling to keep it warm/cool is another story, people don't do this in Europe.

The most effective way to teach people to respect the right of others for clean air; is through thier wallets.
Works every time, everywhere. :)
I don't fancy breathing exhaust fumes from your engine, please turn the ignition off while parked, it is also illegal.
Plus, The Canada ( we don't say The Ukraine, do you like The Canada;) ) will get a balanced budget.

Or SUVs lined up to drop off their precious at school, let them walk, I used to Walk around 2 miles one way and 2 miles back as a pupil for 11 years. Walking is good for you.
Or diesel school buses, about 20 of them here , most of the time go half full at best. What a waste of taxpayers money.
"I will tell you how to become rich. Close the doors. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful."
- Warren Buffett
Deal Fanatic
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Dec 22, 2005
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Oakville, ON
ukrainiandude wrote:
Jan 1st, 2017 3:20 pm
If the government would make it even more cheaper, there will be no stimulus for average Canadian to save more fuel. Right now I often observe people to use there vehicles just to get to the nearby store located 200 meters from each other. Or driving those enormous SUVs, pickups, or minivans.
Leaving their vehicles idling to keep it warm/cool is another story, people don't do this in Europe.

The most effective way to teach people to respect the right of others for clean air; is through thier wallets.
Works every time, everywhere. :)
I don't fancy breathing exhaust fumes from your engine, please turn the ignition off while parked, it is also illegal.
Plus, The Canada ( we don't say The Ukraine, do you like The Canada;) ) will get a balanced budget.

Or SUVs lined up to drop off their precious at school, let them walk, I used to Walk around 2 miles one way and 2 miles back as a pupil for 11 years. Walking is good for you.
Or diesel school buses, about 20 of them here , most of the time go half full at best. What a waste of taxpayers money.
Are you taking into account that the more you raise fuel costs, then everything associated with that goes up too?

Truck, trains, transit, all food, your favourite latte will all go up in price. You can't talk about gas prices in isolation. Logistics chains use fuel too.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only be wasted.
Red Green
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Feb 9, 2009
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ukrainiandude wrote:
Jan 1st, 2017 3:20 pm
If the government would make it even more cheaper, there will be no stimulus for average Canadian to save more fuel. Right now I often observe people to use there vehicles just to get to the nearby store located 200 meters from each other. Or driving those enormous SUVs, pickups, or minivans.
Leaving their vehicles idling to keep it warm/cool is another story, people don't do this in Europe.

The most effective way to teach people to respect the right of others for clean air; is through thier wallets.
Works every time, everywhere. :)
I don't fancy breathing exhaust fumes from your engine, please turn the ignition off while parked, it is also illegal.
Plus, The Canada ( we don't say The Ukraine, do you like The Canada;) ) will get a balanced budget.

Or SUVs lined up to drop off their precious at school, let them walk, I used to Walk around 2 miles one way and 2 miles back as a pupil for 11 years. Walking is good for you.
Or diesel school buses, about 20 of them here , most of the time go half full at best. What a waste of taxpayers money.
It doesnt just effect the consumer... it effects businesses who transport stuff... costs all get passed to us... Canada is really shooting themselves in the foot right now.
Member
Apr 1, 2013
397 posts
58 upvotes
BC
ukrainiandude wrote:
Jan 1st, 2017 3:20 pm
If the government would make it even more cheaper, there will be no stimulus for average Canadian to save more fuel. Right now I often observe people to use there vehicles just to get to the nearby store located 200 meters from each other. Or driving those enormous SUVs, pickups, or minivans.
Leaving their vehicles idling to keep it warm/cool is another story, people don't do this in Europe.

The most effective way to teach people to respect the right of others for clean air; is through thier wallets.
Works every time, everywhere. :)
I don't fancy breathing exhaust fumes from your engine, please turn the ignition off while parked, it is also illegal.
Plus, The Canada ( we don't say The Ukraine, do you like The Canada;) ) will get a balanced budget.

Or SUVs lined up to drop off their precious at school, let them walk, I used to Walk around 2 miles one way and 2 miles back as a pupil for 11 years. Walking is good for you.
Or diesel school buses, about 20 of them here , most of the time go half full at best. What a waste of taxpayers money.
I think you are being misguided. This tax hurts poor people the most. Those live far away and drive one hour to work will suffer, they will have less disposable income at end. Those drive big SUV most likely have a big expense account to write off fuel expense. If they can afford $800 lease payment on a big SUV, do you really think they would trade for a smaller car because of fuel cost ?

The Liberal is killing the economy. Liberal is killing seniors who cannot afford heat. They will die due cold induced illness just like UK. This is happening in Europe.
Penalty Box
User avatar
Aug 23, 2006
2290 posts
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ukrainiandude wrote:
Jan 1st, 2017 3:20 pm
If the government would make it even more cheaper, there will be no stimulus for average Canadian to save more fuel. Right now I often observe people to use there vehicles just to get to the nearby store located 200 meters from each other. Or driving those enormous SUVs, pickups, or minivans.
Leaving their vehicles idling to keep it warm/cool is another story, people don't do this in Europe.

The most effective way to teach people to respect the right of others for clean air; is through thier wallets.
Works every time, everywhere. :)
I don't fancy breathing exhaust fumes from your engine, please turn the ignition off while parked, it is also illegal.
Plus, The Canada ( we don't say The Ukraine, do you like The Canada;) ) will get a balanced budget.

Or SUVs lined up to drop off their precious at school, let them walk, I used to Walk around 2 miles one way and 2 miles back as a pupil for 11 years. Walking is good for you.
Or diesel school buses, about 20 of them here , most of the time go half full at best. What a waste of taxpayers money.
pssst. Why don't we increase that to 20c/L. These guys are rich with big gas guzzlers. So they don't have problem paying that extra money right?
And yes no one else other than these people use vehicles for anything.
I will give you one thing. "What a waste of taxpayers money."
For Wynne and Liberals this is always the case.
And what the hell Ukraine has to do with Canada?
“There are some things money can’t buy, and for everything else there’s MasterCard. Well, get out your checkbooks ladies and gentlemen, because it seems like the entire liberal cabinet can be bought. TRUDEAU: I CAN’T BE BOUGHT...LMAO. Because its 2017
Penalty Box
Jun 15, 2012
528 posts
40 upvotes
MB
sandeeS wrote:
Jan 1st, 2017 9:42 pm
pssst. Why don't we increase that to 20c/L. These guys are rich with big gas guzzlers. So they don't have problem paying that extra money right?
And yes no one else other than these people use vehicles for anything.
I will give you one thing. "What a waste of taxpayers money."
For Wynne and Liberals this is always the case.
And what the hell Ukraine has to do with Canada?
Plus 5 cents it is just extra 25 cents per work day, for those that have to drive 100 km to get to work place.
( car uses 5 l/100 km on high way)
And cost of transportation in your groceries is minuscule, if you remember in 2012 gasoline was ~1.30 CAD and groceries were still cheaper.
"I will tell you how to become rich. Close the doors. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful."
- Warren Buffett
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Oct 23, 2008
4436 posts
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Sanyo wrote:
Dec 31st, 2016 10:49 pm
You realize the Libs have added 13 net cents to the cost of gas (first the HST scam that McGuinty added to the cost of items that were previously PST exempted like gasoline so 8 cents added there) and now the 5 cents by cap and trade (and believe me this thing is going to skyrocket like the stupid hydro fiasco).

This province is so f'd...
This sounds a bit partisan.

I'm not disagreeing with you with the f****** Liberals and the HST, but lets not forget this was also the grand idea of the late Conservative Jim Flaherty to switch to HST.

At the end of the day, whether it's the Liberals or the Conservatives, both will find a way to either tax you death, or waste money through corruption, or just plain incompetence. Both parties are guilty of taking Ontario and Canada down the tubes.
Tis banana is IRIE :razz:

10% off is cold, 50% off is warm, 75% off is hot, but FREE IS RFD!
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2013
3517 posts
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Kingston, ON
chimaican wrote:
Jan 2nd, 2017 10:20 am
This sounds a bit partisan.

I'm not disagreeing with you with the f****** Liberals and the HST, but lets not forget this was also the grand idea of the late Conservative Jim Flaherty to switch to HST.

At the end of the day, whether it's the Liberals or the Conservatives, both will find a way to either tax you death, or waste money through corruption, or just plain incompetence. Both parties are guilty of taking Ontario and Canada down the tubes.
The province has always had full flexibility for what to exempt from provincial portion of HST though, so we can't lay that on Flaherty. (Note: I'm not a federal Conservative supporter either) They put in the <$4 prepared food exemption under pressure not to tax people's morning coffees. They've exempted things like children's clothing, books, and feminine hygiene products all along (later of which finally got zero-rated federally). Newfoundland has been on HST for... 2 decades almost?... and they just applied the 10% provincial portion to books effective Jan 1, 2017.

From day one of Ontario HST, Horwath and the Ontario NDP have been calling for an exemption on Hydro and home heating oil. 6.5 years later the Libs are finally putting in the Hydro provincial 8% exemption.

The HST is actually a much better system from a business perspective than having the separate Retail Sales Tax. It's one filing you're doing anyway, so the accounting is more straightforward. Red tape is reduced, and you deal with one CRA audit department rather than a redundant provincial ministry too. So HST is great, but the provincial Liberals still managed to muck it up by

a) McGuinty pretending it was neutral and not a tax increase ('savings will be passed on!')
b) Taxing Hydro in the first place, only to take it away years later once everyone was fed up
&
c) Optics of tax on tax on fuel. HST is charged on top of provincial (&fed) fuel excise tax and cap & trade costs.

I still think they should have sold people on HST by lowering the provincial rate when they brought it in... go from 5%+8% to a 12% HST. Instead they've managed to tar the HST reputation as 'another Liberal tax grab' when it's actually a good thing (when the exemptions are handled right).
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Dec 11, 2010
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chimaican wrote:
Jan 2nd, 2017 10:20 am
This sounds a bit partisan.

I'm not disagreeing with you with the f****** Liberals and the HST, but lets not forget this was also the grand idea of the late Conservative Jim Flaherty to switch to HST.

At the end of the day, whether it's the Liberals or the Conservatives, both will find a way to either tax you death, or waste money through corruption, or just plain incompetence. Both parties are guilty of taking Ontario and Canada down the tubes.
It's funny how people blame the Ontario liberals, when this is happening because of conservative policies (eg. Flaherty, Harris, etc.).
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Oct 23, 2003
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insurance1 wrote:
Jan 2nd, 2017 1:30 pm
It's funny how people blame the Ontario liberals, when this is happening because of conservative policies (eg. Flaherty, Harris, etc.).
its not con policy to keep HST in Ontario, its Liberal policy.

in BC people screamed, voted, and vetoed the HST. In Ontario, Liberals North Korea'd the population, and no voting was allowed on the issue.
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Dec 11, 2010
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Buggy166 wrote:
Jan 2nd, 2017 2:40 pm
its not con policy to keep HST in Ontario, its Liberal policy.

in BC people screamed, voted, and vetoed the HST. In Ontario, Liberals North Korea'd the population, and no voting was allowed on the issue.
We elect the government, who then decides on our behalf what's best for us. There's a referendum every four years called a general election.
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2013
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The ON Liberals have been reelected twice (god knows how though) since HST, so there's your public endorsement. I don't recall them campaigning on Cap & Trade however.

BC's HST referendum really shot the province in the foot just so people could voice displeasure. The province lost billions from the federal government and businesses got stuck with the costs of a second transition, away from the tax they had just transitioned to. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Deal Expert
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Mar 18, 2005
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Mike15 wrote:
Jan 2nd, 2017 8:23 pm
The ON Liberals have been reelected twice (god knows how though) since HST, so there's your public endorsement. I don't recall them campaigning on Cap & Trade however.

BC's HST referendum really shot the province in the foot just so people could voice displeasure. The province lost billions from the federal government and businesses got stuck with the costs of a second transition, away from the tax they had just transitioned to. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
They didn't campaign on selling off our Hydro assets either. Disgusting that the Ontario Liberals are still in charge of our Province.
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Jun 1, 2006
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Its puzzling why people in Ontario complain about the Ontario Liberals and yet keep voting them in.

So will the voters in 2018 throw them out?

The Ontario Liberals will again paint the Conservatives as Social Conservatives in the next election. It seem to work every time.
Have a nice day!


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Aug 3, 2006
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Some of you people actually believe as if any new government in power would do any better. It's mediocrity no matter which party gets voted in. Liberals in power and people will have something to complain about. Conservatives in power and people will have something to complain about. Poor decisions no matter who is in power. It just goes back and forth.
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