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CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:16 pm
by pierrerion
I've used a CapitalOne issued MasterCard at a neighborhood grocery store for the past year or so, but recently they started to refuse accepting any credit cards issued by CapitalOne. Their terminal carries the MasterCard logo but they said the reason for that is CapitalOne charges a higher fee than bank issued MasterCard.

I don't buy this argument. Plus I don't think it's legal to refuse certain credit cards based on the issuers. I live in Montreal,QC. Is there any government agency to which I can report this vendor? Please share your thoughts here.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:31 pm
by RubberCheese
That is true based on a list that was posted here a while back (that Cap One cards tend to charge higher merchant fees).

With that said, I'm pretty sure it is against Mastercard's policy to discriminate based on issuer in Canada... if you let Mastercard know, they will see to it that the issue is corrected - though this may lead to unintended consequences (i.e. higher prices to make up for higher merchant fees or no MC accepted at all).

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:43 pm
by pierrerion
RubberCheese wrote: That is true based on a list that was posted here a while back (that Cap One cards tend to charge higher merchant fees).

With that said, I'm pretty sure it is against Mastercard's policy to discriminate based on issuer in Canada... if you let Mastercard know, they will see to it that the issue is corrected - though this may lead to unintended consequences (i.e. higher prices to make up for higher merchant fees or no MC accepted at all).
OIC. I actually thought MC acts as the intermediary and clearing house and hence would charge same fees for all issuers. No wonder this Capital One card is annual fee free and offers all the benefits other premium cards carry.
I called Cap1, they did offer me a 60 dollar credit to compensate for my trouble, which was nice. But it doesn't sound like they are actually going to take any actions against this particular vendor. Also MasterCard's website doesn't list a number I can call hence there's no way for me to report the vendor to them.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:44 pm
by Kasakato
pierrerion wrote: I've used a CapitalOne issued MasterCard at a neighborhood grocery store for the past year or so, but recently they started to refuse accepting any credit cards issued by CapitalOne. Their terminal carries the MasterCard logo but they said the reason for that is CapitalOne charges a higher fee than bank issued MasterCard.

I don't buy this argument. Plus I don't think it's legal to refuse certain credit cards based on the issuers. I live in Montreal,QC. Is there any government agency to which I can report this vendor? Please share your thoughts here.
What law would that be? It might (and likely does) violate a master card merchant agreement, but we live in a free economy. A merchant can refuse $5 notes if they wanted.
cjottawa wrote: I'd start with a call to Capital One and immediately follow up with FCAC: http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consumers/index-eng.asp
I doubt the FCAC has any jurisdiction in this. The transaction disputed is between the customer and merchant- not Capital One.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:44 pm
by pierrerion
cjottawa wrote: I'd start with a call to Capital One and immediately follow up with FCAC: http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consumers/index-eng.asp
Yeah I'll try them.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:48 pm
by pierrerion
Kasakato wrote: What law would that be? It might (and likely does) violate a master card merchant agreement, but we live in a free economy. A merchant can refuse $5 notes if they wanted.


I doubt the FCAC has any jurisdiction in this. The transaction disputed is between the customer and merchant- not Capital One.
How do I get in touch with MasterCard?

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:48 pm
by Kasakato
pierrerion wrote: How do I get in touch with MasterCard?
Flip your card around and call the 1800.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:50 pm
by pierrerion
Kasakato wrote: Flip your card around and call the 1800.
That's the issuer, Capital One. And I already called them. Please read my previous reply.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 7:58 pm
by Kasakato
pierrerion wrote: That's the issuer, Capital One. And I already called them. Please read my previous reply.
Call and insist, they will do it. MBNA is more than happy to make a memo each time.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 8:00 pm
by Kasakato
While searching, I found this for you: http://www.mastercard.us/support/mercha ... tions.html

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 8:01 pm
by pierrerion
Kasakato wrote: Call and insist, they will do it. MBNA is more than happy to make a memo each time.
Haha, ok. I'm not good with insistence though.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 8:07 pm
by pierrerion
Kasakato wrote: While searching, I found this for you: http://www.mastercard.us/support/mercha ... tions.html
That MasterCard number redirected me back to CapitalOne. I guess I'll wait a few days now and if it happens again Ill demand Cap1 take some actions.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 8:13 pm
by Kasakato
pierrerion wrote: That MasterCard number redirected me back to CapitalOne. I guess I'll wait a few days now and if it happens again Ill demand Cap1 take some actions.
I meant the "Report a Problem Shopping" form on the left. All MC related issues are handled by the issuing bank, which is why you were referred to CapOne.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 21st, 2013 11:46 pm
by aquariaguy
What's the big deal. Just shop somewhere else. So many small business get shafted from credit card fees. Another reason why no one takes Amex but Costco

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 22nd, 2013 1:09 am
by merc782
http://www.cfib-fcei.ca/cfib-documents/5513.pdf

Master card premium CC charges are the highest ( 2.71%) even when compared to Visa infinite . no wonder in small shops refusing to accept them

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 22nd, 2013 1:45 am
by cahk
Kasakato wrote: I doubt the FCAC has any jurisdiction in this. The transaction disputed is between the customer and merchant- not Capital One.
+1 ... don't waste your time calling FCAC.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 22nd, 2013 3:11 am
by lhsonic
I like how almost everyone on this thread is on the side of Capital One and looking to MasterCard to report the merchant.

How about you look at the real issue, which is that merchants in Canada are being charged a heck of a lot to accept premium credit cards. The merchant agreement asks that they don't discriminate between issuing bank and card type, but getting dinged close to 3% or more is just crazy. You can call it "cost of business" all you like, or argue that it's better than not accepting CCs at all because of the loss of customers, but I don't agree, I'd still go to a place if they don't accept my CC and so would many other people, especially the 95% of Canadians who aren't RFDers and use their CC for everything.

In the US, they're now allowed to pass on these fees to consumers, not that many businesses will choose to do so, yet, but still, do we really need to go there? Government needs to step in to regulate this non-competitive duopoly. Imagine that, having to pay a surcharge to use a CC- renders all the nice cash back rewards useless.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 22nd, 2013 3:17 am
by jamar0303
The difference being that in the US, even the debit cards carry Visa/MC logos. Near as I can tell, in Canada there's just Interac for debit (I still remember this being a stumbling block on my first trip to Vancouver), and Visa Debit is only slowly being introduced alongside it, not as a replacement for it.

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 22nd, 2013 4:50 am
by newyorkontario
jamar0303 wrote: The difference being that in the US, even the debit cards carry Visa/MC logos. Near as I can tell, in Canada there's just Interac for debit (I still remember this being a stumbling block on my first trip to Vancouver), and Visa Debit is only slowly being introduced alongside it, not as a replacement for it.
The visa debit cards offered by CIBC and TD have the visa logo

Re: CapitalOne MasterCard refused at a local grocery store, discrimination?

Posted: Feb 22nd, 2013 7:25 am
by Shaner
You can complain to Capital One all day long, they have no authority over that business whatsoever. Insist they do something until you're blue in the face, that business doesn't answer to Capital One.

You can also complain directly to MasterCard if you want, but I personally doubt they'll do anything. They want as many businesses as possible accepting MasterCard's, they're not going to pull it from a business over something like this.

Just shop elsewhere or don't use your Credit Card.