Automotive

Which car would you recommend when towing 2800lbs

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  • Jun 14th, 2018 2:52 pm
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Mar 15, 2017
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Awd is really only needed if you’re pulling a boat up a steep ramp. The older generation pilots you could “lock” the vtm. The newer pilots there is no 4wd lock but instead there are 4 4wd modes to choose from.
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Sep 4, 2007
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Surprised no one mentioned the 4runner yet. That's a real utility vehicle
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ShingoHusky wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe to tow with the outback you need brakes on the trailer
You've got a 2800lb trailer that doesn't have brakes? Usually that would mean a GVWR of 3500lbs, and that would come from the factory with brakes. 3500lb axles are super common in trailers.

My vote is for a Silverado or Sierra with the 5.3l engine. And a front hitch for the bike rack, if you want to keep the bed free for other stuff.
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Dec 27, 2007
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Most people here are out to lunch.

Get a domestic truck crew cab and call it a day.

Test out all 3 and see which one suits you best
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Sep 1, 2004
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tmkf_patryk wrote: Most people here are out to lunch.

Get a domestic truck crew cab and call it a day.

Test out all 3 and see which one suits you best
I think OP doesn't want truck, SUV and especially truck based SUV.

Of course, logical answer is a truck.
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Xtrema wrote: I think OP doesn't want truck, SUV and especially truck based SUV.

Of course, logical answer is a truck.
No, logical answer is a Beige 2002 Toyota Corolla with a tow hitch and a roof rack for their bikes.
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Jul 4, 2004
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tim-x wrote: I've never seen a van that tows 5000lbs. The Sienna with a tow package can tow 3500lbs. But if you're pulling a 2800lbs trailer that means that you'll very likely be at or over full capacity with a family and cargo. Not to mention that you shouldn't go over 80% of what the full towing capacity is anyway.

You'll need an SUV that pulls 5k, or just go with a full sized truck. A covered bed will offer more cargo room than the cargo area of a 3 row SUV anyway and offer more utility.
To be fair, the previous poster said "full size van", not minivan. Full size vans will tow 5k+ lbs. (e.g. Chevy Express will tow up to 10k lbs depending on trim). FWIW, personally, I do not put value in the 80% of full towing capacity or X% of vehicle weight thing. They are rated to tow X lbs because they can safety tow X lbs.

I think the OP is probably fine with a Sienna or similar minivan but it depends on how many they are and what they are carrying:

GCWR is 8900lbs
curb weight of van is about 4600lbs
trailer is 2800 lbs

leaving 1500 lbs for passengers and cargo.

I don't know the the OP so won't presume to guess the weight of the family but it's probably safe to assume under 500 lbs (2 and 4 yr olds don't weigh much and likely won't weigh much for another 5 years ...), leaving 1000 lbs for "stuff" which should be plenty.

-- update ---

Forgot to factor in GVWR but OP should still be fine

Sienna GVWR is 6000lbs
curb weight of van is about 4600lbs
pin weight of trailer (roughly 10%) is 300 lbs

so 1100 lbs remaining. Not as much as the 1500 from above but likely still sufficient.
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Interesting I've never seen GCWR used before. Only GVWR.

I would have gone about figuring things out as per your 2nd calculation too, while keeping the trailer weight under the vehicle's towing capacity.
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As some who tows regularly, I can say this: You generally want to avoid towing at or near the max rating for any vehicle. You won't regret overkill in a tow vehicle. Especially when your family is inside it. You don't want that minor degree of anxiety every time you head out. And it gets worse each hill, each time you have to pass a slow truck, each time you have to merge onto the highway. It's probably a single axle trailer. Dealing with a trailer tire blowout is a lot different in a pickup compared to a van.

As far as reliability goes, pickup trucks are mechanically simple, and because they produce so many, they can usually find and fix bugs in new models pretty quickly. And even if the underlying reliability is better in a minivan, is that going to hold true towing weekly? Frequent towing at this weight puts far less strain on a pickup than it does on a minivan.

A Sierra v8 4x4 gets 20mpg combined, an AWD Sienna gets 18mpg. Not a huge difference. And if you get the v6 on the Sierra, it will still two 3000lbs just fine, but you'll be up to 19mpg.

The pickup is a far better bet.
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derass wrote: Interesting I've never seen GCWR used before. Only GVWR.

I would have gone about figuring things out as per your 2nd calculation too, while keeping the trailer weight under the vehicle's towing capacity.
GVWR is what the vehicle can carry (might be limited by frame, brakes, tires, axles, etc) within the vehicle
GCWR is the total of the vehicle weight plus any towed vehicle that the vehicle can handle (limited by factors above as well as engine, transmission, brakes (although I think you need trailer brakes for anything about 2500 or maybe 3000 lbs - many manufacturers will say 1000 lbs), etc).

I believe this link explains it well (although I can't actually load at work)
https://www.topspeed.com/trucks/truck-n ... 70318.html
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i6s1 wrote: As some who tows regularly, I can say this: You generally want to avoid towing at or near the max rating for any vehicle. You won't regret overkill in a tow vehicle. Especially when your family is inside it. You don't want that minor degree of anxiety every time you head out. And it gets worse each hill, each time you have to pass a slow truck, each time you have to merge onto the highway. It's probably a single axle trailer. Dealing with a trailer tire blowout is a lot different in a pickup compared to a van.
Don't forget braking!

I was once pulling a loaded car trailer (~5000 lbs) with my Sierra 1500 on an interchange ramp in the US going from one interstate to another. Because of the concrete barriers and changing elevation, the bend was essentially blind, I couldn't see what was around it. Suddenly, all of the traffic ahead of me was at a dead stop. There was a toll booth up ahead, I wasn't familiar with the area, and couldn't anticipate that. I stood on the brakes as hard as I could, and even with trailer brakes, I just barely managed to stop in time. Maybe 2-3 meters to the car ahead.

I would always see guys at the track towing their cars with vehicles too small: Dakotas, Astro vans, once even a Dodge Nitro. Maybe those things were under the towing capacity. but I always thought back to my experience, and knew that those guys wouldn't have been able to stop.

michelb wrote: GVWR is what the vehicle can carry (might be limited by frame, brakes, tires, axles, etc) within the vehicle
GCWR is the total of the vehicle weight plus any towed vehicle that the vehicle can handle (limited by factors above as well as engine, transmission, brakes (although I think you need trailer brakes for anything about 2500 or maybe 3000 lbs - many manufacturers will say 1000 lbs), etc).

I believe this link explains it well (although I can't actually load at work)
https://www.topspeed.com/trucks/truck-n ... 70318.html
Yup, that makes sense. Just like our Driver's Licences have combined weight restrictions.

Just haven't seen GCWR used much. I just tried looking it up for my GMC and came up blank.

GVWR also includes tongue weight, so that combined with the towing capacity can be used to determine the trailer's maximum weight.

I'm looking at my owner's manual now, and as an example, it says that for my truck's configuration (engine, trans, 2WD/4WD, cab, bed, & axle ratio) the towing capacity is 7100 lbs. That assumes driver and one passenger, NO ADDITIONAL CARGO, and a maximum tongue weight of 1000 lbs (10-15% of trailer). Any additional weight in the truck must be subtracted from the towing capacity (eg. 7100 lbs capacity - 500 lbs cargo - 3rd 200 lb passenger = 6400 lbs max trailer weight).

In short, everyone should check their owner's manual before towing.
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derass wrote: Don't forget braking!

I was once pulling a loaded car trailer (~5000 lbs) with my Sierra 1500 on an interchange ramp in the US going from one interstate to another. Because of the concrete barriers and changing elevation, the bend was essentially blind, I couldn't see what was around it. Suddenly, all of the traffic ahead of me was at a dead stop. There was a toll booth up ahead, I wasn't familiar with the area, and couldn't anticipate that. I stood on the brakes as hard as I could, and even with trailer brakes, I just barely managed to stop in time. Maybe 2-3 meters to the car ahead.

I would always see guys at the tracking towing their cars with tow vehicles too small: Dakotas, Astro vans, once even a Dodge Nitro. Maybe those things were under the towing capacity. but I always thought back to my experience, and knew that those guys wouldn't have been able to stop.

I lost the brakes when I was towing my brother in law's 8000lb toyhauler. I guess I didn't put the cable in all that great, and with a bit of corrosion on the connector, no brakes. I realized there were no trailer brakes coming down a large hill. Fortunately my truck is 8000lbs as well, and was able to stop everything, but it wasn't a pleasant experience. My brother in law used to tow that trailer with his halfton, so that would have been even worse.
derass wrote:
Yup, that makes sense. Like our Driver's Licences have combined weight ratings.

Just haven't seen GCWR used much. I just tried looking it up for my GMC and came up blank.

GVWR also includes tongue weight, so that combined with the towing capacity can be used to determine the trailer's maximum weight.

I'm looking at my owner's manual now, and as an example, it says that for my truck's configuration (engine, trans, 2WD/4WD, cab, bed, & axle ratio) the towing capacity is 7100 lbs. That assumes driver and one passenger, NO ADDITIONAL CARGO, and a maximum tongue weight of 1000 lbs (10-15% of trailer). Any additional weight in the truck must be subtracted from the towing capacity (eg. 7100 lbs capacity - 500 lbs cargo - 3rd 200 lb passenger = 6400 lbs max trailer weight).

In short, everyone should check their owner's manual before towing.
GCWR isn't a legal term like GVWR. GCWR is just a manufacturer recommendation, it's not illegal to exceed it. So you won't find it as readily.
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i6s1 wrote: I lost the brakes when I was towing my brother in law's 8000lb toyhauler. I guess I didn't put the cable in all that great, and with a bit of corrosion on the connector, no brakes. I realized there were no trailer brakes coming down a large hill. Fortunately my truck is 8000lbs as well, and was able to stop everything, but it wasn't a pleasant experience. My brother in law used to tow that trailer with his halfton, so that would have been even worse.



GCWR isn't a legal term like GVWR. GCWR is just a manufacturer recommendation, it's not illegal to exceed it. So you won't find it as readily.
Car manufacturers don't appear to print it but I think all truck manufacturers do (https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/gen ... U_Sep9.pdf, https://www.rvtechlibrary.com/chassis/fliner_specs.php, http://www.spartanmotors.com/rv-range/n ... 0-chassis/, https://freightliner.com/trucks/new-cas ... fications/, etc)

I'm not a cop, lawyer or engineer but I believe both are legal (GCWR is sometimes referred to as GCVWR or GVW). When trucks get ticketed for being overweight, it's for being over GCWR (for tractor-trailers, it's not the weight of the cab (maybe 10k lbs) that's the issue, it's the 70k lbs that they are towing!)
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I learned a while ago not argue with i6s1 on subjects like this, and believe me, I like a good debate.....

Anyway, I do agree a GMC/Chevrolet 1500 is the answer.

Safe and worry free towing, best fuel economy, most cargo space and most reliable. Even if you by a used one, possibly the cheapest option too.

Check, check, check, check and check.....

What else did OP want?
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Add to that, the pickup trucks usually have an additional transmission cooler which I don't believe many of the SUVs have, and when towing the oil does get pretty hot.
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Being better equipped does make a difference. If minivan, you'll need to make upgrades. We had an Ody and towed a 2800lb PUP. I had a transmission cooler and better brakes installed. A P3 brake controller was wired in the minivan to sync with the trailer brakes, and I had WD hitch on the trailer. If you have rear sag, you'll need air bags to help the rear suspension and keep your minivan level because nose high = less steering control. You have to be able to stop, you don't want to overheat, nor fishtail and flip. It's not uncommon, a buddy of mine works at an RV dealership, 2 new buyers toppled this year so far. Learning how to tow should be a certified class and a license requirement.

Even with my 1/2 ton truck, I have towing mirrors, upgraded towing pads/rotors, Timbrens on the rear leafs, a rear sway bar, and I use a dual sway Blue Ox WDH. I'm careful my tongue wt plus passengers/gear do not exceed payload. I also have a Furrion rear camera on the back of our TT. Granted I'm pulling more now, you still have to be pro-active with a truck.
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michelb wrote:
I'm not a cop, lawyer or engineer but I believe both are legal
Oh, I could be wrong, just find me the term "GCWR" used in a transportation law. I've never seen it though. Maybe North Dakota or PEI uses it in their laws, but I'm pretty sure it's nowhere in BC and Ontario law.


michelb wrote: (GCWR is sometimes referred to as GCVWR or GVW).
No, GVW is a different term. It's usually used in the legal sense as the max that a combination is licensed for, not rated for. Have a look at your insurance. In BC, trucks are by default licensed for 1.5x curb weight, so my pickup (GMC 2500) is something like 4000kg. But the GCWR set by GM is going to be something like 10 000kg.
michelb wrote: When trucks get ticketed for being overweight, it's for being over GCWR (for tractor-trailers, it's not the weight of the cab (maybe 10k lbs) that's the issue, it's the 70k lbs that they are towing!)
No, they get ticketed for being over licensed weight - GVW. If I hook up a commercial trailer that weighs 5000kg to my pickup, I'm over my licensed weight. (Even though I'm not over my rated weight.)

OR

They get ticketed for the tow vehicle or trailer being over it's GVWR. Each vehicle (including trailers) has a plate with the GVWR from the manufacturer. You won't find GCVWR or tow ratings on there. Or an axle can be overweight, or a tire could be overloaded.

Tractor trailers are closer to 20 000lbs. My F550 is over 10 000lbs, it's about 5500kg.
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i6s1 wrote: No, GVW is a different term. It's usually used in the legal sense as the max that a combination is licensed for, not rated for. Have a look at your insurance. In BC, trucks are by default licensed for 1.5x curb weight, so my pickup (GMC 2500) is something like 4000kg. But the GCWR set by GM is going to be something like 10 000kg... If I hook up a commercial trailer that weighs 5000kg to my pickup, I'm over my licensed weight. (Even though I'm not over my rated weight.)
Similarly in Ontario, the average driver with their "G" licence is restricted to 11,000 kg combined weight, with the trailer weighing no more than 4600 kg.

A quick look on Google shows that a GMC 3500HD for example has a towing capacity of 23,000 lbs (~10,000 kg). So while the truck might be able to do it, the average driver is not licensed to do so.

Interestingly, and I just had to look this up too, if you want to tow more than 4600 kg in Ontario you'd need your A or A-restricted licence. A is the same licence necessary to drive a tractor-trailer, A-restricted is without air-brakes. RV's are excluded from the 4600 kg limit, but the combination still needs to be under 11k.
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derass wrote: Similarly in Ontario, the average driver with their "G" licence is restricted to 11,000 kg combined weight, with the trailer weighing no more than 4600 kg.

A quick look on Google shows that a GMC 3500HD for example has a towing capacity of 23,000 lbs (~10,000 kg). So while the truck might be able to do it, the average driver is not licensed to do so.

Interestingly, and I just had to look this up too, if you want to tow more than 4600 kg in Ontario you'd need your A or A-restricted licence. A is the same licence necessary to drive a tractor-trailer, A-restricted is without air-brakes. RV's are excluded from the 4600 kg limit, but the combination still needs to be under 11k.
Yes, there are also weight restrictions on license type.

Here in BC, the law is similar. You do need a house trailer endorsement on your class 5 to tow a travel trailer over 4600kg, or a heavy trailer endorsement to tow any trailer over 4600kg. The house trailer endorsement isn't that hard to get. Nowhere near as hard as a commercial license.

Your tow vehicle has to be licensed with a high enough weight to cover the truck and commercial trailer. But if you're only towing a travel trailer (or other "utility" trailers usually considered non-commercial), the truck's licensed weight only needs to cover the truck.

11000kg is a reasonable limit as an exemption for RVs, but some of the biggest trailers might be tight against it. I'd think that 99% of trucks and fifth wheels would be under that.
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blind56 wrote: No, logical answer is a Beige 2002 Toyota Corolla with a tow hitch and a roof rack for their bikes.
I was actually looking into towing a rental trailer with a '04 Corolla, grey. Just the trailer (U Haul) alone exceeded the towing weight - and then there was a climb up 3 mountain passes with the first 1,000m+ over 22 Km. Ended up with a 15' van (wanted a 10 but they didn't have any).
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