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Carbon taxes will fuel Canadian populism

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  • Jun 26th, 2017 2:07 am
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Feb 19, 2010
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Carbon taxes will fuel Canadian populism

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/18/ca ... n-populism
If and when Canadians give the establishment the boot, it will be over energy prices, carbon taxes and green schemes, more than any other issues.
A recent Edelman poll revealed a whopping 80% of Canadians have had it with the elites.
No wonder. There are so many topics where the establishment consensus and its media enablers are disconnected from the concerns of regular people.

We see this in the Canadian values debate. We see it with people’s legitimate concerns about border security. And in how they’ve lost patience with political correctness and moral relativism.

These issues are without a doubt at play in the rising populist sentiments in this country. But for most people they remain ideas and abstractions. They don't negatively impact our wallets or our quality of life, at least not yet. The same can’t be said for carbon taxes. The headlines keep coming about the dire straits people are in, partly due to an ideologically driven green agenda foisted upon them without their say.

High energy prices have led to small businesses closing down, manufacturers heading south, credit card debt piling up, dumpster diving for food, borrowing money from churches to pay the bills, kids wearing snowsuits indoors to keep warm and so on. Last year, these troubles were most acutely felt by people in rural Ontario, many of whom heat their homes with electricity. Then, on Jan. 1, Ontario and Alberta introduced carbon pricing schemes – cap and trade in Ontario, a carbon tax in Alberta. The rates will go up again next year.

Provinces are already trying to combat these problems with rebate programs. The Alberta NDP wisely did it from the get-go. But Ontario’s Liberals are only now rolling out rebates in a bid to save their political skin. They will help, but they won’t eliminate people’s anger and frustration. Too much harm has already been done. The wounds are real and raw. Every time people fill up at the pumps or pay their home heating bill, they’re reminded of this cynical agenda.

You’d think the political class would read the tea leaves and smarten up. Australia introduced a carbon tax in 2012 and it was so unpopular and harmful that an election was fought over it. That brought a new government to power that promptly axed the tax in 2014. But instead of learning from Ontario and Australia, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau still plans to mandate this harm cross-country – imposing a national carbon price on any province that doesn’t impose its own.

Carbon tax advocates are now doubling down on this insanity. They tell us creating a massive carbon pricing regime that is clearly vulnerable to exploitation is justified so long as it is “revenue neutral”, citing the British Columbia model as an example, even though research by the Fraser Institute suggests it’s not. Of course, if you drag enough indecipherable numbers that confirm your bias on either side of the ledger, you can get yourself to a position where you can technically argue revenue neutrality exists. But revenue neutral carbon taxes work in the same way communism does ... in the heads of ivory tower theorists blind to the suffering of regular people.

It gets worse when you step away from the mainstream media narrative and keep in mind this could very well all be for nothing. There are inconvenient facts activists don’t want you to dwell on: How Canada makes an insignificant contribution to global greenhouse gases. How there is no guarantee lowering emissions will alter global temperature patterns.

To monkey around with energy rates and tax necessities because it fits in with an ideological agenda is the epitome of elitism.
That is why this issue festers in the minds of so many voters. It transcends conventional political lines.
I see the frustrations online every day, read them in my inbox and hear them on my voicemail. Expect it to come to the ballot box soon.
Accidental Premier Notley is doing all she can to guarantee she never gets a second mandate in Alberta, one would think that Ontarioans would rid themselves of Wynne ASAP and Junior Trudeau, almost 18 months into his mandate, has proven that he's in way over his head. None of them are paying attention to the electorate and all need to pay the political price.
55 replies
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Aug 21, 2007
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No one in Edmonton matters. Honestly.
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Oct 6, 2007
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Kootenays
"There are inconvenient facts activists don’t want you to dwell on: How Canada makes an insignificant contribution to global greenhouse gases. How there is no guarantee lowering emissions will alter global temperature patterns." :facepalm:
Deal Guru
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Jun 1, 2006
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No, we are Canadians. We are used to high taxes. We sometimes complain but in the end nothing happens. We keep re-electing the same people that screw us over.
Have a nice day!


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May 22, 2011
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I'm surprised people are just figuring this out. We're less than 3% of world GDP. We can shut down our economy and live like aboriginals, it won't make one iota of a difference.
Penalty Box
Apr 8, 2013
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studolf wrote:
Mar 18th, 2017 9:05 pm
I'm surprised people are just figuring this out. We're less than 3% of world GDP. We can shut down our economy and live like aboriginals, it won't make one iota of a difference.
Ever heard of the paris agreement?.

Its not about 1 country, its about hundreds of countries agreeing to the same thing and following through.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement

Thats like saying people shouldnt vote because individual votes doesnt matter. If a million people who believes "their vote doesnt matter" agree to vote for a specific candidate. Thats a million vote towards that candidate.

Its simple math.
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[OP]
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And durant STILL doesn't understand that carbon taxes have nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with governments finding yet another way to take money from taxpayers and piss it away. Doesn't get much more naive than that. :facepalm:
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Sep 1, 2013
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LonesomeDove wrote:
Mar 18th, 2017 8:38 pm
No, we are Canadians. We are used to high taxes. We sometimes complain but in the end nothing happens. We keep re-electing the same people that screw us over.
While that's true, I don't think we've ever been in quite the situation Canada is in in, with stagnant middle-class wages coupled with being squeezed on both sides (government and corporate interests). The cracks are already starting to show, and eventually, the game will be up.
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Oct 6, 2007
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When you make a commodity more expensive, people are more careful in how they use it and try to reduce their expense. Paying more for our emissions encourages us to reduce them. When gasoline reached $1.50/l in 2007, people started being more concerned with their consumption. Telling people it's the right thing to do isn't working. Making them pay for the privilege is the fall back. Cripes, I saw a Hummer H2 on the road on Thursday.
Penalty Box
Apr 15, 2011
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Scarborough
dont really care, infact I support carbon taxes. Only a rich man would be against it. The fact is, its basically an income redistribution scheme from richer to poorer. The rich who drive the gas guzzlers, the big trucks, suvs and live in mansions will get whats coming to them. I drive around a prius, and at the end of the month I get a rebate cheque back because i'm in the solid middle income bracket. Actually, in Toronto I think they're screwing us over by taking the carbon taxes and funneling it towards the roadwork and construction projects. Pisses me off, but they were about to enact tolls on the DVP before Wynne agreed to handing over the carbon taxes... another bitch move by the hag.
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Sorry a bit unrelated but when did the term 'populism' start meaning, 'libertarianism'? Prior to Donald Trump, I used the term 'populism' to describe a system that frees people from tyranny. Whether you agree with it or not, 'Occupy Wall Street' was a populist movement because it sought to benefit a greater amount of people, or populace. Now it's getting thrown around as if populism is some right wing concept that assumes government = tyranny. It's not. Socialism, Communism, Capitalism, these can all be populist in their pure forms. Can we start using the word properly again please?
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Member
Nov 6, 2015
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Guelph, ON
studolf wrote:
Mar 18th, 2017 9:05 pm
I'm surprised people are just figuring this out. We're less than 3% of world GDP. We can shut down our economy and live like aboriginals, it won't make one iota of a difference.
Of course no single country would make much of a difference, the goal would be that the majority of countries find a solution together.
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Jul 12, 2007
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smacd wrote:
Mar 18th, 2017 10:47 pm
When you make a commodity more expensive, people are more careful in how they use it and try to reduce their expense. Paying more for our emissions encourages us to reduce them. When gasoline reached $1.50/l in 2007, people started being more concerned with their consumption. Telling people it's the right thing to do isn't working. Making them pay for the privilege is the fall back. Cripes, I saw a Hummer H2 on the road on Thursday.
You have to think deeper about the economic and social impact a carbon tax has on a population. So, I'm not sure if you have an economics background but think about a carbon tax as sort of a forced inflation. So, people who consume more are already taxed more, but you also hurt lower income earners because everything rises in price. There are increased transportation costs, and guess what, goods get transported. You also hurt manufacturers because consumers look for cheaper substitutes than buying locally and considering how many free trade deals we have, that means purchasing down south or overseas. In the day of the internet, it's easier now than ever, which is why I don't think the liberals thoroughly thought this through. So, while the libbies have stated it will be a revenue neutral tax, it really just forces people to spend more while pretending they are doing good. That's really all it takes to please that segment (ie. liberals). You are better off taking all your foreign aid money, that usually just ends up being siphoned to the rich in the countries you are pledging it to, and using that to promote cleaner tech versus coming up with a hurtful carbon tax.
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blaznazn22 wrote:
Mar 19th, 2017 12:01 am
dont really care, infact I support carbon taxes. Only a rich man would be against it. The fact is, its basically an income redistribution scheme from richer to poorer. The rich who drive the gas guzzlers, the big trucks, suvs and live in mansions will get whats coming to them. I drive around a prius, and at the end of the month I get a rebate cheque back because i'm in the solid middle income bracket. Actually, in Toronto I think they're screwing us over by taking the carbon taxes and funneling it towards the roadwork and construction projects. Pisses me off, but they were about to enact tolls on the DVP before Wynne agreed to handing over the carbon taxes... another bitch move by the hag.
You are confusing two different taxes, gas tax and 'cap and trade' (carbon tax).

Gas tax: http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/tax/ft/
Carbon tax: https://www.ontario.ca/page/cap-and-tra ... #section-2

Wynne is increasing the share of the gas tax that goes to municipalities starting 2019
Ontario denies Toronto tolls, boosts gas tax funds for municipalities

The revenue generated by the carbon tax must be invested – in a transparent way – back into projects that reduce greenhouse gas pollution.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/cap-and-trade-ontario
Penalty Box
Apr 15, 2011
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tk1000 wrote:
Mar 19th, 2017 10:07 am
You are confusing two different taxes, gas tax and 'cap and trade' (carbon tax).

Gas tax: http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/tax/ft/
Carbon tax: https://www.ontario.ca/page/cap-and-tra ... #section-2

Wynne is increasing the share of the gas tax that goes to municipalities starting 2019
Ontario denies Toronto tolls, boosts gas tax funds for municipalities

The revenue generated by the carbon tax must be invested – in a transparent way – back into projects that reduce greenhouse gas pollution.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/cap-and-trade-ontario
basically the same shyte. You can lump the carbon tax in with the gas tax. Only fools would be against the carbon tax...face it, the tax is very progressive. It helps the bottom and middle brackets out, while taking back more $$ from the top income earners. Those who usually earn more, end up having larger houses, larger cars, take more vacations, etc etc. Us poorer folks drive around honda civics, toyota corollas, live in modest apartments/condominiums or beat down homes. We end up getting subsidized for electricity and gas and all the other stuff either way. Not to mention the infrastructure projects that the carbon taxes will pay for are going to keep the property taxes (in poor/middle income areas) from going up. Obviously if you are someone living beyond your means, then the carbon tax will affect you in some way, but then thats your own problem, nobody elses.

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