Automotive

Careless Driving what to do

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Oct 5, 2008
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Bogdan1976 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 8:31 am
i respectfully disagree that i was going too fast at 40 - 50 km /hour for the road conditions this day. There's no equation for how to dive in different conditions and we all have to adapt to the weather. All the cars ahead were driving at same speed. It is very unfortunate that I can't remember how the van ended up in my face but it could have been as well turning the corner w/o giving me priority.
Another major player in this situation could have been the snow tires. It isn't the first time I notice they don't do well in rain like conditions. Perhaps the brand name I am using (continental) is crap. I have no excuse for this. Yes i am at fault not trying to deny it but i wasn't careless.
argue that in court and see how far that gets you.

as for snow tires, maybe if you had a proper set of 4 you would have stopped in time.
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l69norm wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 8:27 am
No , the HTA offence of “Careless Driving” has a specific legal definition that is not the same as the implied meaning of “being careless while driving”

We *could* all 100% agree that the OP was “being careless while driving” but that does not mean the OP is guilty of the HTA offence of “Careless Driving “ . This is why the op needs to get some legal advice
here's your definition:

https://robichaudlaw.ca/being-charged-w ... affic-act/

Careless driving in Ontario: its definition, its penalties, and the nature of the charge.

Careless Driving is a serious offence under the Highway Traffic Act. It is defined in section 130 of the Highway Traffic Act and reads as follows:

130 Every person is guilty of the offence of driving carelessly who drives a vehicle or street car on a highway without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $400 and not more than $2,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her licence or permit may be suspended for a period of not more than two years.


So yes the OP can fight it and get it knocked down to "following too closely" or something similar, but the charge he received was correct.
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Swerny wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 8:36 am
here's your definition:

https://robichaudlaw.ca/being-charged-w ... affic-act/

Careless driving in Ontario: its definition, its penalties, and the nature of the charge.

Careless Driving is a serious offence under the Highway Traffic Act. It is defined in section 130 of the Highway Traffic Act and reads as follows:

130 Every person is guilty of the offence of driving carelessly who drives a vehicle or street car on a highway without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $400 and not more than $2,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her licence or permit may be suspended for a period of not more than two years.


So yes the OP can fight it and get it knocked down to "following too closely" or something similar, but the charge he received was correct.
Edit .. Charge is the charge. It’s seems to be a default charge in any traffic accident whether it’s correct or not. This will be decided in court .

Cops can lay any charge they like, they still need to prove it in court. There’s a lot of factors which is why OP needs legal advice

Essentially, the crown must prove that the op was driving without reasonable consideration for others. The standard of care is not “perfection”. Op might have made mistakes but the crown must prove that a reasonable driver would not have made the same mistakes

Anything about the accident itself cannot be used as proof.

The crown needs a witness to the OP’s driving prior to the accident and that it demonstrated he was not showing reasonable consideration

Edit
Actual example (paraphrased):
Regular house wife type appealing conviction for “careless driving”. Very similar accident to OP. Raining, slippery wet pavement. She rear ended a stopped car at a traffic light.

The judge says to the woman - please stay silent and do not say a word”
Judge - why is this woman guilty of careless driving?
Crown - talks about accident, following too closely, driving too fast for conditions
Judge - Accident is not proof of careless driving . How many other accidents that night occurred due to weather conditions?
Crown - might have been a few, doesn’t know for sure
Judge - Are there any witnesses that the women was driving too fast or following too closely?
Crown - The accident is proof she was either driving too fast or following too closely
Judge - accident cannot be used as proof. Where are your witnesses?
Crown - I don’t have any witnesses
Judge - Woman is not guilty, She’s free to go
Last edited by l69norm on Dec 21st, 2018 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Bogdan1976 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 8:31 am
i respectfully disagree that i was going too fast at 40 - 50 km /hour for the road conditions this day. There's no equation for how to dive in different conditions and we all have to adapt to the weather. All the cars ahead were driving at same speed. It is very unfortunate that I can't remember how the van ended up in my face but it could have been as well turning the corner w/o giving me priority.
Another major player in this situation could have been the snow tires. It isn't the first time I notice they don't do well in rain like conditions. Perhaps the brand name I am using (continental) is crap. I have no excuse for this. Yes i am at fault not trying to deny it but i wasn't careless.
Image

You stated it took you 15-20m and that you were doing 40-50km hr. The winters would have assisted and possibly having a bit better brakes than an econo car unless you have a v6.
I'm going to be the first one to call your bs here.... You were going too fast for the conditions.
Smash that like button!
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I bet the tread depth on your tires are pretty low too.
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While the police may have said you will get a careless driving ticket, that does not necessarily mean that will happen. Wait until you get the ticket ( if you get the ticket ) and see what the charge is.

Could be any number of things including following too close, but before you jump into it, wait to see what happens and then deal with it.

If it is careless driving charge, will quite often be dropped to something less rather than clog the courts.
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nasa25 wrote:
Dec 20th, 2018 11:22 pm
Any good lolyers still around these days?
I think the 2 main partners at Underwater Lolyers, LLC are too busy as they have diversified into the entertainment business and are currently in the process of remaking the Little Mermaid.
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BeaverLiquor wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 1:42 pm
I think the 2 main partners at Underwater Lolyers, LLC are too busy as they have diversified into the entertainment business and are currently in the process of remaking the Little Mermaid.
Lol

Ragu & Sayku

Attorneys at Lol

Call 1-888-LAKEAV6 for all your lolyering needs
Last edited by nasa25 on Dec 21st, 2018 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Procurement, Life & RFD
nasa25: say you won it in a raffle. That's what I do with like 86% of my purchases
infinityloop: Lying to your SO seems like an unhealthy long term strategy
nasa25: lmao
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l69norm wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 8:45 am
Edit .. Charge is the charge. It’s seems to be a default charge in any traffic accident whether it’s correct or not. This will be decided in court .

Cops can lay any charge they like, they still need to prove it in court. There’s a lot of factors which is why OP needs legal advice

Essentially, the crown must prove that the op was driving without reasonable consideration for others. The standard of care is not “perfection”. Op might have made mistakes but the crown must prove that a reasonable driver would not have made the same mistakes

Anything about the accident itself cannot be used as proof.

The crown needs a witness to the OP’s driving prior to the accident and that it demonstrated he was not showing reasonable consideration

Edit
Actual example (paraphrased):
Regular house wife type appealing conviction for “careless driving”. Very similar accident to OP. Raining, slippery wet pavement. She rear ended a stopped car at a traffic light.

The judge says to the woman - please stay silent and do not say a word”
Judge - why is this woman guilty of careless driving?
Crown - talks about accident, following too closely, driving too fast for conditions
Judge - Accident is not proof of careless driving . How many other accidents that night occurred due to weather conditions?
Crown - might have been a few, doesn’t know for sure
Judge - Are there any witnesses that the women was driving too fast or following too closely?
Crown - The accident is proof she was either driving too fast or following too closely
Judge - accident cannot be used as proof. Where are your witnesses?
Crown - I don’t have any witnesses
Judge - Woman is not guilty, She’s free to go


OP ignore the keyboard lawyers. Stop wasting your energy and getting all nervous from reading all these people bashing you. Go spend money and get a real lawyer. Enjoy the holidays.
One blind human - a tragedy
Ten blind humans - a disaster
One million blind humans - a statistic
[OP]
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Aug 8, 2016
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Thanks everyone

I appealed to the services of a paralegal firm here in Kitchener; cost $650 w/o tax.

I went out the city to test the breaks and slippage in similar weather like conditions to understand what happened. If i pull breaks harder at 40 kilometres it won't slip. It does however anywhere after 50 closer to 60 kilometers an hour when i pull the break hard. If i pump breaks it seems to improve the stopping distance. Definitely ABS would have been helpful! . long story short, every vehicle purchased should be tested in similar conditions.

Tire's threads left approx. 7 mm
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Bogdan1976 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 5:29 pm
Thanks everyone

I appealed to the services of a paralegal firm here in Kitchener; cost $650 w/o tax.

I went out the city to test the breaks and slippage in similar weather like conditions to understand what happened. If i pull breaks harder at 40 kilometres it won't slip. It does however anywhere after 50 closer to 60 kilometers an hour when i pull the break hard. If i pump breaks it seems to improve the stopping distance. Definitely ABS would have been helpful! . long story short, every vehicle purchased should be tested in similar conditions.

Tire's threads left approx. 7 mm
Have you actually received a ticket yet? There's no sense retaining a paralegal until that happens. And are you receiving an insurance discount for having winter tires?

Not sure what you’re trying to prove. Most people put winter tires on all 4 corners. Putting them only on the rear might help you accelerate, but won’t help much with cornering and braking. I wouldn’t be surprised if you decrease stability under extreme maneuvers.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/te ... p?ttid=110

C
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engineered wrote:
Dec 20th, 2018 11:47 pm
No winter tires? That's pretty crazy to be driving without them in a Mustang. Otherwise I don't see how you could have slipped that far unless they were bald (which is even worse).

BTW, ABS wouldn't help you stop any quicker. It only helps you steer while braking.
ABS definitely does help you stop quicker. That's the main reason for ABS. Just as you lose traction on the road surface and the wheel stops turning, the brake releases it to reestablish traction. It's similar to the old method of pumping your brakes, but much more effective, as it can do it far faster mechanically than you can do manually.
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smacd wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 7:11 pm
ABS definitely does help you stop quicker. That's the main reason for ABS. Just as you lose traction on the road surface and the wheel stops turning, the brake releases it to reestablish traction. It's similar to the old method of pumping your brakes, but much more effective, as it can do it far faster mechanically than you can do manually.
Anti-lock braking system.

ABS is to stop skidding due to locked brakes and allow you to be able to steer the vehicle, and on loose/slippery surfaces can make stopping distances longer.
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BeaverLiquor wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 7:39 pm
Anti-lock braking system.

ABS is to stop skidding due to locked brakes and allow you to be able to steer the vehicle, and on loose/slippery surfaces can make stopping distances longer.
ABS is an anti-lock braking system.

"An anti-lock braking system (ABS) is a safety anti-skid braking system used on aircraft and on land vehicles, such as cars, motorcycles, trucks and buses. ABS operates by preventing the wheels from locking up during braking, thereby maintaining tractive contact with the road surface." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
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smacd wrote:
Dec 21st, 2018 7:47 pm
ABS is an anti-lock braking system.

"An anti-lock braking system (ABS) is a safety anti-skid braking system used on aircraft and on land vehicles, such as cars, motorcycles, trucks and buses. ABS operates by preventing the wheels from locking up during braking, thereby maintaining tractive contact with the road surface." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
Yes I know, that is why i bolded the anti-lock in the ABS....

Unlike what you said, the main reason for ABS is not to make you stop quicker, it's to keep a vehicle from skidding.

A shorter stopping distance is just an added benefit. However, if the surface you are driving on is less than ideal that benefit disappears, just as the Wiki page you linked notes, if you read it.

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