Food & Drink

Carl’s Jr restaurants expanding to GTA | Toronto locations closing

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  • Mar 21st, 2017 4:36 am
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Feb 9, 2012
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HP_John wrote:
Mar 12th, 2016 11:47 pm
Its not a accident 6 points is trying to get out of their deal, clearly they must've been losing $ at a unsustainable rate to try to close & pull out so soon after investing so heavily. I think within 12 months there won't be any Carls Jr left in Canada. I've been to both Toronto locations multiple times & both were never at full capacity or even close to it, except possibly on opening day (when I wasn't at either place)
4-7% of the fees are paid into advertising.
What was that fee for anyway? None of the TV ads aired on Canadian television...at least not in Toronto!
St. Clair Subway station is the only place I recall seeing any billboard ads...helps one location, but I do not recall seeing a single ad for the Queen street location.

I still have faith in a Carl's Jr. franchise for Toronto, but they really have to better explain what the ad fees are for.
Even so, a budget for separate billboard ads may be required to draw maximum attention to the place.
The biggest headache is not getting the proper backing for TV ads the same way other franchises (ie McDonald's) do.
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playnicee1 wrote:
Mar 13th, 2016 3:18 am
The biggest headache is not getting the proper backing for TV ads the same way other franchises (ie McDonald's) do.
Do you even have any idea how expensive TV ads are? McDonalds can do it because they have 1400 locations across Canada, while Carls Jr only has 17 locations. 4-7% of franchise fees for 17 locations can probably only buy a few billboard ads (which is why you only saw a few billboard ads).
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Just because they failed in Southern Ontario doesn't mean they'll pull out of all of Canada. The B.C franchises have been operating for several years now. I think Ontario has a lot of other brands that are well established, so it's harder to get a piece of the pie. I can tell you that the only store out of the four that was profitable was the Queen st. one, the rest were either losing money or barely breaking even.
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LNahid2000 wrote:
Mar 13th, 2016 11:54 am
Do you even have any idea how expensive TV ads are? McDonalds can do it because they have 1400 locations across Canada, while Carls Jr only has 17 locations. 4-7% of franchise fees for 17 locations can probably only buy a few billboard ads (which is why you only saw a few billboard ads).
Yes, I am well aware. The ads are already produced. All they could be doing is re airing them on Canadian television. (local to each area)
My real point is that Carl's jr needed to be clear on exactly what the fees are for.
Even if they're not intended to fund radio or TV ads.
The fees were collected, but no billboard ads were present for the Queen street location.
Now, if the missing information is that Carl's DID allot a select amount of money for 6 points to use freely,
then maybe they really did go all out and burn all the ad budget on one location. (the subway ads in St. Clair subway station sure made it look like crazy money was spent!)
Who knows?
There's still a court case going on and 6 points is not happy about the shortage of ads
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playnicee1 wrote:
Mar 13th, 2016 9:56 pm
Yes, I am well aware. The ads are already produced. All they could be doing is re airing them on Canadian television. (local to each area)
My real point is that Carl's jr needed to be clear on exactly what the fees are for.
Even if they're not intended to fund radio or TV ads.
The fees were collected, but no billboard ads were present for the Queen street location.
Now, if the missing information is that Carl's DID allot a select amount of money for 6 points to use freely,
then maybe they really did go all out and burn all the ad budget on one location. (the subway ads in St. Clair subway station sure made it look like crazy money was spent!)
Who knows?
There's still a court case going on and 6 points is not happy about the shortage of ads
Do you have a copy of the contract that was signed? How do you know they weren't clear about what the fees would be used for?

And I'm talking about the cost of airtime alone...even if the ads are already produced, airtime costs a lot of money. More money than 4-7% of franchise fees of less than 20 locations.
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Get-a-fix wrote:
Mar 11th, 2016 6:51 pm
Even if 6 points hadn't closed down all their stores you still would've been able to open up a Franchise, as they didn't have exclusive rights. So you can basically open up ONE now if you wanted. Having said that i personally wouldn't, as there are better businesses to spend $1 million on.
Not one "unit". The Canadian side is forcing "3 units".

"* Per unit developed; a minimum development agreement of three units required..."

It's also a 20 year agreement no matter what happens with the business. The "4-7%" ad fee also remains unclear.
:arrow: http://carlsjrfranchising.com/canada/franchise.html

The American version allows only one "unit" to open freely, if desired to do so: http://www.carlsjrfranchising.com/franchise
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Get-a-fix wrote:
Mar 13th, 2016 12:36 pm
Just because they failed in Southern Ontario doesn't mean they'll pull out of all of Canada. The B.C franchises have been operating for several years now. I think Ontario has a lot of other brands that are well established, so it's harder to get a piece of the pie. I can tell you that the only store out of the four that was profitable was the Queen st. one, the rest were either losing money or barely breaking even.
Actually, can you revisit that Queen Street claim, but not in a summer month? What's the story then? Do the milkshakes & Ice cream still sell? Or by winter, did the burgers sell a little better?
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playnicee1 wrote:
Mar 13th, 2016 10:40 pm
Not one "unit". The Canadian side is forcing "3 units".

"* Per unit developed; a minimum development agreement of three units required..."

It's also a 20 year agreement no matter what happens with the business. The "4-7%" ad fee also remains unclear.
:arrow: http://carlsjrfranchising.com/canada/franchise.html

The American version allows only one "unit" to open freely, if desired to do so: http://www.carlsjrfranchising.com/franchise
Your interest in Carl's Jr appears to extend much deeper than that a casual burger fan. Perhaps your posts such as above would be more appropriate to the Entrepreneurship & Small Business sub-forum. :)
renoldman wrote:
Jan 23rd, 2016 1:51 pm
There is 592 posts in this thread and playnicee1 has 188 or so posts.
Statistics update: 216 posts out of 666.
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GenerationE wrote:
Mar 14th, 2016 6:29 am
Your interest in Carl's Jr appears to extend much deeper than that a casual burger fan. Perhaps your posts such as above would be more appropriate to the Entrepreneurship & Small Business sub-forum. :)



Statistics update: 216 posts out of 666.
That's only how it appears. In a heartbeat I'll support South Street burger. No point in cheering for something that doesn't exist.
I'm very happy to see South Street does not charge extra for guacamole.
I'm just a little nervous of what will happen to their fries in the future, now that NY Fries has been sold and Cara foods did not want the burger side of the biz...
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nippleholic wrote:
Feb 16th, 2016 1:51 am
With an area of 3618 sq. ft, that works out to $217,080 per month plus $61,578.36 in TMI for a total of $278,658.36 per month. That's not including the 2509 sq. ft. basement and all the overhead/staffing costs. Damn, no wonder they didn't last.
No no it's $23k per month -- which is still very high since you got rent, labour, food costs, etc... they would have had to make well over $200k per month to make anything decent there... maybe in due time they would have but not in a year or two, can take a while to build up regular customers to supplement the once in a while customers...
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Sanyo wrote:
Jan 26th, 2017 1:20 am
No no it's $23k per month -- which is still very high since you got rent, labour, food costs, etc... they would have had to make well over $200k per month to make anything decent there... maybe in due time they would have but not in a year or two, can take a while to build up regular customers to supplement the once in a while customers...
There's a reason why the space @ St. Clair and Yonge is still empty. lol
Rent is just too darn high.
Maybe with a liquor licence, a fresh new burger place can pull it off?
Strictly a guess...
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playnicee1 wrote:
Jan 26th, 2017 1:44 am
There's a reason why the space @ St. Clair and Yonge is still empty. lol
Rent is just too darn high.
Maybe with a liquor licence, a fresh new burger place can pull it off?
Strictly a guess...
Not a high enough volume area. You would need $6000+ per day in revenue to get to $200K. Not happening there.

I am missing Carls Jr. Wish they would open somewhere in TO again.
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they should open stand alone locations in the suburbs potential to make a little more money...similar to what A&W is doing right now (and also in the US where they build stand alone locations on the edges of plaza, strip malls, malls, etc).

Also they should allow one franchisee units in Toronto... this way more potential people in the pool to be able to open one up. If an average store costs about 750k- million to build out, this is achievable for people with equity in home or savings -- three units is asking alot...
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Sanyo wrote:
Jan 26th, 2017 1:10 pm
they should open stand alone locations in the suburbs potential to make a little more money...similar to what A&W is doing right now (and also in the US where they build stand alone locations on the edges of plaza, strip malls, malls, etc).
It's sad when Carl's Jr. was downtown on Queen Street West I never got around to trying it out. It was always on my "to do list", but I just didn't get around to it. :(

Strangely, earlier tonight was my very first time trying out A&W. They've been around the GTA for years and I finally can check them off my list. LOL
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