Parenting & Family

Catholic, english, french immersion or private: which elementary school is better?

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  • Jul 9th, 2010 10:54 pm
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Newbie
Sep 19, 2008
33 posts
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This is all very useful. Is there a resource on the web somewhere to provide us with a list of questions we need to ask from the principal when we want to check out a school? We wouldn't know what questions to ask really. What are the important considerations that a meeting with a school's principal (or teachers?) could resolve?
Deal Expert
Oct 6, 2005
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1. Public schools are fine - provided your child hangs out with the right kids and works hard.

2. School environment does matter makes a huge difference, but provided you're in a decent neighbourhood, the school should be OK too.

My take on private school - unless the school can guarantee your child will get into an Ivy league school, why bother? If the private school only guarantees university entrance, that's the same as saying your child will goto UofT or York - anyone can get into those schools with 70+ grades.
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Oct 6, 2005
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budanik wrote: I we want to move to Unionville because we happen to believe that the highschool is pretty good there, then we have to pay a premium for purchasing a home there partly because the highschool is considered very good. Are you saying that my kids would be not guaranteed to go to the Unionville highschool even though we live within the school's territory?
Unionville is a great area. In fact, it has been a wonderful neighbourhood for the past 25+ years. Unionville Markham has been a relatively successful attraction, and this has driven up home prices. Not to mention, homes in the Unionville area were always more expensive than surrounding areas. The higher house prices attracted more "well-to-do" families. Compare Unionville to Markham Road/14th... where houses were huge, but MUCH cheaper than Unionville. South Markham attracted a totally different demographic and now that area is no longer desirable to live in.
gman wrote: There are also 2 camps of theory. Putting your kid to a very good school and be an average student or putting your kid to an average school to be its top student. I was in camp 1 and my kids are in camp 2. I feel that my kids are more happy than I was and feel a lot more successful than I was. They also get much more respect from their peer than I was.
They might be more happy, but when they come out into the real world, they'll realize they're just average. Better break that to them soon, so they can work extra hard :D

I went to a good highschool in Scarborough that had very smart students. I was above average and by no means near the top of the class. Nevertheless because several of my friends were extremely smart and competitive this helped push me along. In anycase, my friendships with these brainiacs have probably resulted in me being more successful than otherwise...
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Aug 10, 2005
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coolspot wrote: 1. Public schools are fine - provided your child hangs out with the right kids and works hard.

2. School environment does matter makes a huge difference, but provided you're in a decent neighbourhood, the school should be OK too.

My take on private school - unless the school can guarantee your child will get into an Ivy league school, why bother? If the private school only guarantees university entrance, that's the same as saying your child will goto UofT or York - anyone can get into those schools with 70+ grades.
There are other school than the Ivy League schools that are highly regarded in the States and the rest of the world that many apply to.

Besides, private school does not guarantee acceptances to any of those schools. What it does is that if you have an application from XYZ school (a reputable private school) whereas you have an application from BBZ (random public school that has only sent a kid to that school ten years ago), the student from XYZ has credibility behind him/her and admissions will be familiar with that school. Also, it's just more information readily available for kids that want to apply abroad as opposed to here.

Public school can be just good as private school (might be stretching it a bit here). My view on private school is that you are buying opportunities for your child to have ready access to knowledge. But the teaching is still determined by the quality of the teachers as well as the parents' involvement in their kids' lives.

If your kid lands in gifted, yes, the classes are more interactive, smaller and the teachers are catered towards teaching for that type of student (varies school to school). You get an education beyond the classroom.

And for the record, you don't need a private school to guarantee your child acceptance anywhere. It's up to their level of motivation.
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Jun 14, 2003
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coolspot wrote: They might be more happy, but when they come out into the real world, they'll realize they're just average. Better break that to them soon, so they can work extra hard :D
My kids do know they are not very good comparing with the rest of the world. However, they do have the skill and the will to work hard. I tease my daughter as 'Rock Lee', a person who does not have talent but work much harder than others.
I went to a good highschool in Scarborough that had very smart students. I was above average and by no means near the top of the class. Nevertheless because several of my friends were extremely smart and competitive this helped push me along. In anycase, my friendships with these brainiacs have probably resulted in me being more successful than otherwise...
I was like that. Although that was a rough period of my life, I did do well in University and in real world. On the other hand, my peer in the University might not do as well as I did in University, they do even better than I am after University.

So, I know what the camp 1 like. Now, I will see what will happen to my daughters. They 'score' better in this stage. They already earned what I missed in my childhood.
Too many people spend money they haven't earned to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like. -- Will Smith
Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
Stay hungry, stay foolish.
Newbie
Sep 8, 2008
5 posts
I would say that a French immersion school should be seriously considered. In Canada and internationally, people have a lead when they're fluently bilingual/trilingual/multilingual/etc--no matter the career. They do teach French in public schools (outside of Quebec), but I've been through those schools for my entire 12 years in the public school system, and I can honestly say that they teach crap. A French immersion school would have more quality in terms of actually teaching them how to be fluent in both English and French (like they do in Quebec). I wish... so desperately wish... that I had had the early lead in learning French through immersion schools. I'm at the point where I'm graduating from university and searching for jobs--and I find that many, many jobs at both government and private levels both value and require bilingualism. As society becomes more and more educated as a whole, bi/multilingualism will no doubt become more and more valued.

Of course, you can always teach your daughter different languages on the side. I find that such techniques don't work as well, but it honestly depends on both you and your daughter.

Good luck!
Member
Apr 13, 2003
399 posts
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Another option...starts in Grade 4; half day english (Math, Literature and Science) and half day french (French, Social Studies, Art). I preferred this option as you can ensure the child will get all the foundation in english but more exposure to french language than just a regular french program in the english schools.

I don't find that the school or school board plays much of a role as the child and parents do...a lazy child/parent in any school is going to produce a bad student.

As a parent you have to set a good example for the child. You have to read to them every night, you have to sit there when they're doing their homework to encourage and help, you have to attend the parent-teacher interviews, you have to attend the school council meetings, etc. This shows the child that you consider education an important aspect.

My 2 cents anyways...
Banned
Jan 11, 2004
19816 posts
572 upvotes
some points to consider

1. To teach in regular english track school, really only the cream of the crop teachers gets hired to do so. So the "quality" of teachers in terms of experience, grades, references are high in regular public stream.

2. French Immersion teachers are in demand and short supply, basically if you have a pulse and are a teacher with certification to teach in French immersion you are hired. so teachers who would not otherwise be even considered in english stream end up in french immersion school teaching.

3. it's not always a school that is the result of high scores or etc... its the community and parents of the students. Generally, i dont think catholic schools teach any better than public, but scores may not reflect that. the reason is if a parent takes the effort/care to enroll their student in catholic and/or french immersion, they could likely care more about their child's education adn do more at home which results in higher school scores.
Newbie
Sep 19, 2008
33 posts
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coolspot wrote: I went to a good highschool in Scarborough that had very smart students.
I don't know when you went to highschool in Scarborough, but currently the top school is R.H. King at St. Clair & Kingston Road, and even that barely cuts the 10th percentile.

In contrast, there are a number of high schools in Markham that are well within the 10th percentile...
Newbie
Sep 19, 2008
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coolspot wrote: Unionville is a great area. In fact, it has been a wonderful neighbourhood for the past 25+ years. Unionville Markham has been a relatively successful attraction, and this has driven up home prices. Not to mention, homes in the Unionville area were always more expensive than surrounding areas. The higher house prices attracted more "well-to-do" families. Compare Unionville to Markham Road/14th... where houses were huge, but MUCH cheaper than Unionville. South Markham attracted a totally different demographic and now that area is no longer desirable to live in.
You seem to know Markham really well. The other day I was up at Major Mac and Kennedy Rd, and there are these great looking monster houses there with an alleyway at the back that includes the garage, just west of Kennedy Road near the Angus Glen golf course. Yet when I talked to a parent there she told me that they belong to Buttonville school district and the schools are not good at all.

So which highschools are good in Markham?
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Jan 11, 2004
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budanik wrote: You seem to know Markham really well. The other day I was up at Major Mac and Kennedy Rd, and there are these great looking monster houses there with an alleyway at the back that includes the garage, just west of Kennedy Road near the Angus Glen golf course. Yet when I talked to a parent there she told me that they belong to Buttonville school district and the schools are not good at all.

So which highschools are good in Markham?
they belong to the Unnamed Angus Glen ES Section A boundary which is holding at Buttonville PS.

thing with parents in "well to do" neighborhoods is that they feel they are deserving of their own school where their kids do not have to mingle with the "lesser" kids from less desirable areas.

what does the parent know to say the schools are not good at all?

which high school is "good" depends entirely on the student and the kind of education they want. to make broad generalizations to say which high school is "good" would be irresponsible, unfair and just plain not useful.
Newbie
Sep 22, 2008
3 posts
gilboman wrote: which high school is "good" depends entirely on the student and the kind of education they want. to make broad generalizations to say which high school is "good" would be irresponsible, unfair and just plain not useful.
Are you saying that it is entirely up to the student and "nurture" has nothing to do with it? Are you saying that if I parachute a student into Birchmount High to hang out with the druggies where the cops are constantly present and the school ranks in the bottom 10% of all schools in Ontario or if I drop the exact same person into Unionville HS as someone in the thread mentioned, then four years later I will end up with basically the same person? You cannot be serious!!!!!
Banned
Jan 11, 2004
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makmak wrote: Are you saying that it is entirely up to the student and "nurture" has nothing to do with it? Are you saying that if I parachute a student into Birchmount High to hang out with the druggies where the cops are constantly present and the school ranks in the bottom 10% of all schools in Ontario or if I drop the exact same person into Unionville HS as someone in the thread mentioned, then four years later I will end up with basically the same person? You cannot be serious!!!!!
I am Dead serious. i'm saying it is upto the student and what they want to determine which high school or school is "best". a Best school for student A, could be a bad school for student B. You seem to completely miss the point, which is that each school offers a different type of "nuture", which type of "nuture" is best depends on the student.

and frankly, i dont think you know what you are saying.
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Oct 15, 2001
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My kid just started Jk this Sept and I searched the EQAO results. I found that Roy H. Crosby is quite impressive.
But I am not in that area and EQAO of the school near my home is good enough, so I just send my kid to the school near my home.

http://www.yrdsb.edu.on.ca/
Newbie
Sep 22, 2008
3 posts
gilboman wrote: and frankly, i dont think you know what you are saying.
Well, not to split hairs or anything but the only thing I said was that you cannot be serious... the rest were questions. :lol:

While there is merit to your point that a school's specialization in certain streams is important, my main concern would be that my child is among decent students who come from decent homes with good values and habits, and that the teachers in the classroom challenge them to excel and progress in whatever discipline they are learning at that moment. It could be French, geography, music, history or math or whatever. Then later on in life they will be able to use these general skills and excel in any field they choose like be a good political leader. :cheesygri

So I think that your point that a school's general environment and student environment do not matter is completely off base.
Deal Expert
Oct 6, 2005
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budanik wrote: You seem to know Markham really well. The other day I was up at Major Mac and Kennedy Rd, and there are these great looking monster houses there with an alleyway at the back that includes the garage, just west of Kennedy Road near the Angus Glen golf course. Yet when I talked to a parent there she told me that they belong to Buttonville school district and the schools are not good at all.

So which highschools are good in Markham?
Major Mac and Kennedy does not have have any monster homes... It's a nice neighborhood, but solidly middle class/working class.

I believe the public highschool in the area is Markville H.S. that's a decent H.S.
gilboman wrote: thing with parents in "well to do" neighborhoods is that they feel they are deserving of their own school where their kids do not have to mingle with the "lesser" kids from less desirable areas.
This is just prudence. I heard of issues at St. Augustine where kids from the nearby low-cost housing projects are "robbing" lunch money.

FYI, St. Augustine CHS is located in a very nice area of Markham... unfortunately they dumped bunch of low-cost housing smack in the middle of the neighbourhood.
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Jan 11, 2004
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makmak wrote:
While there is merit to your point that a school's specialization in certain streams is important, my main concern would be that my child is among decent students who come from decent homes with good values and habits, and that the teachers in the classroom challenge them to excel and progress in whatever discipline they are learning at that moment. It could be French, geography, music, history or math or whatever. Then later on in life they will be able to use these general skills and excel in any field they choose like be a good political leader. :cheesygri

So I think that your point that a school's general environment and student environment do not matter is completely off base.
i am saying, of course a schools environment and student's environment matter, but you seem to think a school good for student A would be a good fit for your child without taking into consideration whether your child would excel or is suitable for a environment that student A is in.

And i do not think that your child would automatically do better in a school with "decent students who come from decent homes with good values and habits" than a school with students who are more diverse. If your child does not fit the mold of the typical student at this school, they will suffer more than at a school with less well off students.

finally high schools, especially in Markham, all have their different focus. Unionville HS has the Arts York Program, but if your child like sports, they would not be nearly as challenged or engaged as they would be if they were at Bill Crothers SS. if your child likes technology, they would be better served at middlefield CI. if your child is identified as gifted, they may want to goto markham district HS which offers gifted program for Gr 9-10.
Banned
Jan 11, 2004
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coolspot wrote: This is just prudence. I heard of issues at St. Augustine where kids from the nearby low-cost housing projects are "robbing" lunch money.

FYI, St. Augustine CHS is located in a very nice area of Markham... unfortunately they dumped bunch of low-cost housing smack in the middle of the neighbourhood.
this happens at private schools or schools in well off areas as well. It's bullying, it maybe in a different form (instead of robbing lunch money, they harass you for not being "well off" enough).

you can't shield your kids from society, especially when they are at HS age. you can teach them to deal with it.
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Oct 6, 2005
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budanik wrote: I don't know when you went to highschool in Scarborough, but currently the top school is R.H. King at St. Clair & Kingston Road, and even that barely cuts the 10th percentile.
I just checked the rankings at the Fraser institute and my old high school in Scarborough ranks higher than R.H. King.

But I heard things went downhill at my old school the last few years, but nevertheless it still ranks pretty well. (Rank: 52/725, 67/675)
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Sep 19, 2008
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coolspot wrote: I just checked the rankings at the Fraser institute and my old high school in Scarborough ranks higher than R.H. King.

But I heard things went downhill at my old school the last few years, but nevertheless it still ranks pretty well. (Rank: 52/725, 67/675)
I was checking the Fraser Institute report as well, but I could not find any school in Scarborough that ranked higher that R.H. King. What is the name of your high school?

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