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Changing to a double door

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 22nd, 2017 7:22 pm
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Deal Addict
Feb 2, 2014
4117 posts
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Toronto
restie wrote:
Jul 16th, 2017 3:52 pm
I currently have my front door with windows on either side. Do I need a permit to change to a double door?
I live in Markham.

Thanks
If it can fit, which likely it can't, go for it. I changed my exterior door in a few hours (most of the work is ripping out the old door and jamb).

If it won't fit, it's not worth it in my opinion.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Mortgage Agent and Real Estate Sales Representative
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Jan 25, 2007
2905 posts
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Paris
at1212b wrote:
Jul 17th, 2017 1:24 pm
Yikes. How about the cheaper options?
Painted steel probably 5k with nice glass. If just double doors.
Gbill2004: Thanks but I'll just smell the couch before/if I buy it.

jonnyb: I go in there like PICASSO and toss the glue everywhere, I don't care what house I'm on.
Deal Addict
Jan 25, 2007
2905 posts
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Paris
CdnRealEstateGuy wrote:
Jul 17th, 2017 1:40 pm
If it can fit, which likely it can't, go for it. I changed my exterior door in a few hours (most of the work is ripping out the old door and jamb).

If it won't fit, it's not worth it in my opinion.

Most of the work is correct shiming and making sure it opens/closes in 4 seasons. Anyone can tear a door out
Gbill2004: Thanks but I'll just smell the couch before/if I buy it.

jonnyb: I go in there like PICASSO and toss the glue everywhere, I don't care what house I'm on.
[OP]
Jr. Member
Mar 18, 2015
162 posts
33 upvotes
Mississauga, ON
I'm doing it because my door and side slits are old. The house was built in 1980 and the entrance is showing it's age. It needs maintenance. Might as well get something more "grand"
This is my front door. I measured it and it's about 65"-66" I don't know where to where I should measure from. I think it was from start of the glass to end of the glass on the other side.
FrontDoor.jpg
As for the cost, I saw this at Lowes
LowesDoor.jpg
Two of these plus the doorway shouldn't really cost that much more would they?
Deal Addict
Sep 22, 2009
1565 posts
286 upvotes
Markham
Please don't buy from big box stores. Their quality isn't as good.
Deal Addict
Jan 25, 2007
2905 posts
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Paris
BDSL wrote:
Jul 21st, 2017 10:17 am
Please don't buy from big box stores. Their quality isn't as good.
The shelf product isn't as good. The stuff through their installations contractors is same quality as elsewhere.

Yes the cost of a good door to replace that will be 5k+. The door you see there is a lower quality builder grade.
Gbill2004: Thanks but I'll just smell the couch before/if I buy it.

jonnyb: I go in there like PICASSO and toss the glue everywhere, I don't care what house I'm on.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Oct 12, 2007
3171 posts
230 upvotes
Ottawa
restie wrote:
Jul 16th, 2017 3:52 pm
I currently have my front door with windows on either side. Do I need a permit to change to a double door?
I live in Markham.

Thanks
You usually do not need a permit to replace windows or doors but do require one if you are enlarging or relocating it. For you to not get a permit, you would have to take the view that this is a door replacement. I doubt you would get much grief on this one but it would be worth a call - particularly if you live in a neighbourhood where people snoop and complain.

We have a steel double door in our house of 27 years and have opened the second door maybe four or five times. Frankly, most furniture is designed to be moved into houses that are built with 30" wide doors so the need to open both doors is pretty minimal. We considered installing a fiberglass door with sidelights a number of years ago but balked at the price - $15k installed. We would prefer to go this route though because that set-up would bring significantly more light into the house and double doors do tend to leak heat/air more than a well-installed single door with good quality side lights.

FWIW, The door brand that kept getting recommended to me is Therma Tru
Deal Addict
Dec 5, 2009
4622 posts
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I prefer big single doors myself. You could also get a really nice single door that will look way better than what u have.
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Jan 25, 2007
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Paris
CaptSmethwick wrote:
Jul 22nd, 2017 5:23 am
You usually do not need a permit to replace windows or doors but do require one if you are enlarging or relocating it. For you to not get a permit, you would have to take the view that this is a door replacement. I doubt you would get much grief on this one but it would be worth a call - particularly if you live in a neighbourhood where people snoop and complain.
No permit is required when you are not making structural changes. So replacement without altering header is fine, cutting a window straight down is fine to make into a door (electrical permit may be required if there are wires). The second you make it wider or taller you are generally altering structure and need to pull permits.
Gbill2004: Thanks but I'll just smell the couch before/if I buy it.

jonnyb: I go in there like PICASSO and toss the glue everywhere, I don't care what house I'm on.
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Oct 12, 2007
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Ottawa
Jerico wrote:
Jul 22nd, 2017 1:46 pm
No permit is required when you are not making structural changes. So replacement without altering header is fine, cutting a window straight down is fine to make into a door (electrical permit may be required if there are wires). The second you make it wider or taller you are generally altering structure and need to pull permits.
While I do not disagree with you, you are not quoting the permit requirements in Markham. Those requirements are written differently from municipality to municipality and, frankly, applied differently by municipal staff and inspectors. Markham's says you have to get a permit unless you meet a list of exceptions and their only reference among that list that is relevant to the OP is to replacing windows or doors so it is clear that you don't need a permit for a strict door replacement in Markham. Just as a comparison, Ottawa uses the "enlarging or relocating a window or door" language. Mostly, those two things should amount to the same - the permit requirements are trying to catch where people want to alter structure, as you suggest. Assuming that the OP's door opening was framed properly when the house was originally framed, there's no problem here. Of course, we don't know that 100%. I've seen all sorts of bad framing in my life. But that wasn't the point of my post as I am not assuming bad framing. My point was more that the language of the permitting requirements is worth checking - and a phone call rarely hurts. And, frankly, neither does getting a permit if there's any doubt.
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Jan 25, 2007
2905 posts
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Paris
CaptSmethwick wrote:
Jul 22nd, 2017 4:41 pm
While I do not disagree with you, you are not quoting the permit requirements in Markham. Those requirements are written differently from municipality to municipality and, frankly, applied differently by municipal staff and inspectors. Markham's says you have to get a permit unless you meet a list of exceptions and their only reference among that list that is relevant to the OP is to replacing windows or doors so it is clear that you don't need a permit for a strict door replacement in Markham. Just as a comparison, Ottawa uses the "enlarging or relocating a window or door" language. Mostly, those two things should amount to the same - the permit requirements are trying to catch where people want to alter structure, as you suggest. Assuming that the OP's door opening was framed properly when the house was originally framed, there's no problem here. Of course, we don't know that 100%. I've seen all sorts of bad framing in my life. But that wasn't the point of my post as I am not assuming bad framing. My point was more that the language of the permitting requirements is worth checking - and a phone call rarely hurts. And, frankly, neither does getting a permit if there's any doubt.
We work in Markham and I'm very well versed in the requirements for a permit in that area. We pull permits 100% when required.

You are right though... when in doubt, call. We still call every once in a while to pass something by the local building office.
Gbill2004: Thanks but I'll just smell the couch before/if I buy it.

jonnyb: I go in there like PICASSO and toss the glue everywhere, I don't care what house I'm on.

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