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Chemical engineering is a very bad option in Ontario.

[OP]
Newbie
Dec 30, 2016
4 posts
25 upvotes

Chemical engineering is a very bad option in Ontario.

Hi friends. I wanted to make a post about chemical engineering in Ontario and about how poor the prospects are. I'm going to post a bit about my own history, and if you've faced similar situations as well or have any counter-points, please post them. I think this advice I have to share will be very useful for new engineering grads.

I started chemical engineering in Waterloo in 2011 and graduated this year and I've been extremely underemployed since and have been doing retail work at minimum wage while applying to jobs.

I actually read a post last year on this forum regarding how bad chemical engineering (or any engineering) was, with people even citing that familiar "30% of engineering graduates don't work in engineering" statistic for Ontario's engineers. I've seen many people criticize the way the government in Ontario works, and the mentality of why many companies wouldn't want to hire in Ontario due to having so many costs. I agree.

Honestly, I've had a very rough past six months since graduation and I just wanted to give my insight on how bad it's been applying for those chemical engineering jobs. I live within the GTA (have been applying everywhere though), but this advice might be different depending on both your location and your socioeconomic status.

My story: I did very well in school and always played by the rules. Growing up in the GTA my high school was primarily made of minorities - most people would cause trouble and not care about university at all because they'd be inheriting their parent's business that wouldn't require a degree or because they knew people. I want to say about 12/450 of the graduating year in my high school actually went to any form of post-secondary.

I chose Waterloo because of its unique co-op program. I actually found the curriculum easy - even easier than high school because there was extremely little bias in marking unlike in high school where teachers would have favourites. But really, I thought that completing exams were like completing puzzles - you just need to know the laws of conservation, etc. to be able to form some equations and you can just solve it. Some students would take fifteen minutes solving 3 sets of linear equations because they'd be using substitution, whereas I'd just use maybe two or three minutes because I'd use a matrix and invert it. I could even tell if I set up the eqns wrong because I could check the determinant instead of checking it at the end. I've always loved to take an intuitive approach to solving problems.

But I digress - I finished my degree with a 3.9/4.0 GPA, and also got extra titles on my degree like "with distinction", "dean's honour list" etc. Let me instead tell you my mistakes:

I ended up completing 5 co-op positions at four different companies. My first few co-ops were at what you call "co-op farms", the companies that only have a couple of managers and have 20-30 co-op students. Why? The financial benefits of hiring co-op students, of course! Unfortunately, the management was very poor and they ended up taking shortcuts, were unsuccessful, and one had closed their facilities. That also happened because one of the students got seriously injured as well due to poor training. The other company still exists, but they would rather keep hiring students instead of hiring full-time graduates due to the financial benefits.

My later co-ops were research-based and were done at companies who had special connections to get NSERC grants - I did this because these companies would pay more. I don't know if it'll vary, but for me it was like "employer pays only 1/4 of my salary and NSERC contributes the rest", meaning that it was the first time I'd be making like $16/hr rather than $12/hr (it was still poor, I know - the company would only be paying $4/hr).

The problem is that these companies were also a lot like the co-op farms, except that they'd only hire students eligible for NSERC's, though I didn't realize it at the time and often the management would misrepresent the facts, "Oh yeah you'll have a nice full-time job here after you've done co-op," then your NSERC finishes, "Oops, budget is very bad, we can't afford it, please try online in a few years, Thanks!" and they move onto the next student.

The big problem why I used to have difficulties getting a job after graduation was because all of my experience had looked research-oriented. I figured out that problem quickly with the help of some of my colleagues, and even removed the words "NSERC" as well as any reference to research from my resume. That kind of stuff is really bad if you just want to get a entry-level full-time engineering position, and as soon as I made changes to make my resume have more "applied skills" and even removed software I knew like MATLAB and COMSOL, and immediately I was getting more interviews. Publicly available articles from Sean Moran on LinkedIn actually give a lot of good advice for new chemical engineering graduates.

But let me discuss my next point. Chem eng in Ontario is very bad. Due to the previous oil prices going down, there were a lot of unemployed chem eng seniors who have been taking junior positions. I've interviewed at several companies and I can tell that employers see a lot of unemployed chemical engineering graduates. Most of my interviews turn into a "how low can you go?" kind of situation.

People will say that chem eng jobs are more often found in remote areas, but that's not always true, some can be found in the cities, but they pay so badly they're not worth it. I tried applying to the states but was extremely unsuccessful - but the one time I did get an offer, it was from the "big electric car manufacturer", who really wanted me because I did battery research as my final design project. Problem was they were offering like 40-50k USD for a position in Silicon Valley. I could go to a third-world country and live in less poverty.

But seriously. I applied for about 100-200 jobs online each month, and my rate is actually pretty decent - I usually get one interview per every month or two. I've interviewed at Canada's largest generic pharmaceuticals manufacturer and even one of Ontario's largest process controls companies. The thing is about interviews you get from applying online is that they're fake.

Most companies for these kinds of positions will end up hiring people specifically for hiring - the "Talent Acquisition" team they're usually denoted as - and during interviews you'll never even get to talk to someone who would be even working in a similar role (or even your potential boss), leading to very fake and weird interviews. A lot of the times your potential boss or supervisor will give questions for the talent acquisition team to read, and the talent acquisition will simply spend the whole interview blandly saying these questions and recording your answers onto their notebook and not even having a conversation.

Worst part is that they'll interview 30 people in a day for a typical chem eng entry level position - because I've seen it on both paper logbooks for the visitors and even on their computer logbooks that you tap to sign. Hey look at that - what are the chances of a visitor coming in for an interview every fifteen minutes? Due to non-overlapping times and the poor economic conditions, I can easily tell that you're interviewing them for the same position.

And yes, a lot of chem eng positions are also in remote locations. It's so sad, I remember my first interview after graduating - they called me three weeks in advance to tell me the time of the interview. I spent all that time just researching the company and preparing for the interview. It was 250 km away and I had to be there for 8AM, so I pretty much left at 5AM, parked up, prepared until about 10 minutes before and walked in. The first thing I get asked is if I know anybody internally, to which I respond as "no", then get asked two generic questions, and within less than five minutes, interview done! I asked about three questions that took her about ten to fifteen minutes to answer, even though she answered as vaguely as possible because she was only part of a hiring team and barely knew about the role at all.

Another interview I got had the talent acquisition manager mis-read my resume - she thought I had worked years at each of my co-ops. When I told her that they were only four month duration co-ops, which was clearly stated on the resume she did not read (she actually paused for like 5 minutes in the middle of the interview to read my resume), and she actually slammed her clipboard down onto the desk in fury. I almost burst out laughing at the absurdity of the situation, and the rest of the interview ended up turning into seeing how well they could roast me.

I've never gone to an interview after graduation where I'd be speaking with a member of the team - I've never been asked any technical questions, even in interviews they would themselves call "technical interviews".

I live in the GTA and with most of these big companies, they have locations far away and also have locations within the GTA as well. It's really sad when you live five minutes away from one of their actual plants where they could use a chem eng, and instead they want you to work at their amazing facility 300km away.

When I apply for positions in locations close to me, they will always take my personal information and say "congrats, come to an interview!" and I know well enough to quickly check my Excel records. Then I'll realize that I applied for a *different job* in that company, and that the position they're interviewing me is for a technician role in their far-away location. They really want to push the limits. I had one fellow call me for a *one month* contract position, no benefits, part time, 400 km away. Most of my offers for chem eng positions would pay about 30-35k CAD annually.

I really hate to say it, all the interviews that I received from online were fake or very poorly done. Most of the times the interviews would be exceedingly short, like 5-10 minutes. Many times they already have an internal candidate or a family member in mind and want to have paperwork that they interviewed people, and many times they simply will be testing the waters to see what kind of candidates they could get in the future if they wanted to fire the workers that were making a lot of money at their company.

Anyways, I have no family connections - everybody in my family does mostly retail or have been working as mechanics for the last 40 years at a single company. I've been going to job fairs, and those folks working there have gotten really smart as well - they know everybody wants to chat them up and become friends, and most of the people I've met in the fairs actually say to apply online.

Ontario is a really, really backwards kind of place. The whole economy just seems to be service-based, and it's crazy that I saw similar posts saying that - you folks really do know how terrible it is. This forum is extremely local and specific to Canadians. Anyways, my recommendation is to do computer science or something other than engineering. Ontario is a place where you wouldn't find innovation. It's not a crazy coincidence that so many of the previous places I've worked for have shut down their Canadian operations - nobody wants to fork the expensive costs of operating in Canada.
121 replies
Newbie
Nov 21, 2016
95 posts
81 upvotes
Now here is a great read by an intelligent individual who has been screwed by the world. You should seriously consider writing a book or a journal. Great story my friend.

It's funny. My story is similar to yours and I'm in accounting. All the jobs I've gotten were also just an excuse to hire a student in order to recieve government benefits.

I was paid 5$/Hour by my last employer. The government program paid me 10$/hour for a total of 15$/hr. Once the government incentive expired, the company fired me without hesitation. Management was terrible and I basically taught myself everything with the help of Google and books.
"Just **** get it done" was a common phrase used by my boss and managers.

I can relate to you. The world only cares about money. They don't care about where money is coming from. When you went to Waterloo and worked your ass off, the government got money. When companies hired you for coop, they got money. And now, since they used you up and you are no longer valuable, they threw you out like a prostitute. They fked you and left you.

The world is a pimp and student are hookers man.
Horrible terrible generation we live in.
Sr. Member
May 18, 2015
981 posts
204 upvotes
Ottawa,Ont
ChemEngdude0 wrote:
Dec 31st, 2016 12:43 pm
Hi friends. I wanted to make a post about chemical engineering in Ontario and about how poor the prospects are. I'm going to post a bit about my own history, and if you've faced similar situations as well or have any counter-points, please post them. I think this advice I have to share will be very useful for new engineering grads.

I started chemical engineering in Waterloo in 2011 and graduated this year and I've been extremely underemployed since and have been doing retail work at minimum wage while applying to jobs.

I actually read a post last year on this forum regarding how bad chemical engineering (or any engineering) was, with people even citing that familiar "30% of engineering graduates don't work in engineering" statistic for Ontario's engineers. I've seen many people criticize the way the government in Ontario works, and the mentality of why many companies wouldn't want to hire in Ontario due to having so many costs. I agree.

Honestly, I've had a very rough past six months since graduation and I just wanted to give my insight on how bad it's been applying for those chemical engineering jobs. I live within the GTA (have been applying everywhere though), but this advice might be different depending on both your location and your socioeconomic status.

My story: I did very well in school and always played by the rules. Growing up in the GTA my high school was primarily made of minorities - most people would cause trouble and not care about university at all because they'd be inheriting their parent's business that wouldn't require a degree or because they knew people. I want to say about 12/450 of the graduating year in my high school actually went to any form of post-secondary.

I chose Waterloo because of its unique co-op program. I actually found the curriculum easy - even easier than high school because there was extremely little bias in marking unlike in high school where teachers would have favourites. But really, I thought that completing exams were like completing puzzles - you just need to know the laws of conservation, etc. to be able to form some equations and you can just solve it. Some students would take fifteen minutes solving 3 sets of linear equations because they'd be using substitution, whereas I'd just use maybe two or three minutes because I'd use a matrix and invert it. I could even tell if I set up the eqns wrong because I could check the determinant instead of checking it at the end. I've always loved to take an intuitive approach to solving problems.

But I digress - I finished my degree with a 3.9/4.0 GPA, and also got extra titles on my degree like "with distinction", "dean's honour list" etc. Let me instead tell you my mistakes:

I ended up completing 5 co-op positions at four different companies. My first few co-ops were at what you call "co-op farms", the companies that only have a couple of managers and have 20-30 co-op students. Why? The financial benefits of hiring co-op students, of course! Unfortunately, the management was very poor and they ended up taking shortcuts, were unsuccessful, and one had closed their facilities. That also happened because one of the students got seriously injured as well due to poor training. The other company still exists, but they would rather keep hiring students instead of hiring full-time graduates due to the financial benefits.

My later co-ops were research-based and were done at companies who had special connections to get NSERC grants - I did this because these companies would pay more. I don't know if it'll vary, but for me it was like "employer pays only 1/4 of my salary and NSERC contributes the rest", meaning that it was the first time I'd be making like $16/hr rather than $12/hr (it was still poor, I know - the company would only be paying $4/hr).

The problem is that these companies were also a lot like the co-op farms, except that they'd only hire students eligible for NSERC's, though I didn't realize it at the time and often the management would misrepresent the facts, "Oh yeah you'll have a nice full-time job here after you've done co-op," then your NSERC finishes, "Oops, budget is very bad, we can't afford it, please try online in a few years, Thanks!" and they move onto the next student.

The big problem why I used to have difficulties getting a job after graduation was because all of my experience had looked research-oriented. I figured out that problem quickly with the help of some of my colleagues, and even removed the words "NSERC" as well as any reference to research from my resume. That kind of stuff is really bad if you just want to get a entry-level full-time engineering position, and as soon as I made changes to make my resume have more "applied skills" and even removed software I knew like MATLAB and COMSOL, and immediately I was getting more interviews. Publicly available articles from Sean Moran on LinkedIn actually give a lot of good advice for new chemical engineering graduates.

But let me discuss my next point. Chem eng in Ontario is very bad. Due to the previous oil prices going down, there were a lot of unemployed chem eng seniors who have been taking junior positions. I've interviewed at several companies and I can tell that employers see a lot of unemployed chemical engineering graduates. Most of my interviews turn into a "how low can you go?" kind of situation.

People will say that chem eng jobs are more often found in remote areas, but that's not always true, some can be found in the cities, but they pay so badly they're not worth it. I tried applying to the states but was extremely unsuccessful - but the one time I did get an offer, it was from the "big electric car manufacturer", who really wanted me because I did battery research as my final design project. Problem was they were offering like 40-50k USD for a position in Silicon Valley. I could go to a third-world country and live in less poverty.

But seriously. I applied for about 100-200 jobs online each month, and my rate is actually pretty decent - I usually get one interview per every month or two. I've interviewed at Canada's largest generic pharmaceuticals manufacturer and even one of Ontario's largest process controls companies. The thing is about interviews you get from applying online is that they're fake.

Most companies for these kinds of positions will end up hiring people specifically for hiring - the "Talent Acquisition" team they're usually denoted as - and during interviews you'll never even get to talk to someone who would be even working in a similar role (or even your potential boss), leading to very fake and weird interviews. A lot of the times your potential boss or supervisor will give questions for the talent acquisition team to read, and the talent acquisition will simply spend the whole interview blandly saying these questions and recording your answers onto their notebook and not even having a conversation.

Worst part is that they'll interview 30 people in a day for a typical chem eng entry level position - because I've seen it on both paper logbooks for the visitors and even on their computer logbooks that you tap to sign. Hey look at that - what are the chances of a visitor coming in for an interview every fifteen minutes? Due to non-overlapping times and the poor economic conditions, I can easily tell that you're interviewing them for the same position.

And yes, a lot of chem eng positions are also in remote locations. It's so sad, I remember my first interview after graduating - they called me three weeks in advance to tell me the time of the interview. I spent all that time just researching the company and preparing for the interview. It was 250 km away and I had to be there for 8AM, so I pretty much left at 5AM, parked up, prepared until about 10 minutes before and walked in. The first thing I get asked is if I know anybody internally, to which I respond as "no", then get asked two generic questions, and within less than five minutes, interview done! I asked about three questions that took her about ten to fifteen minutes to answer, even though she answered as vaguely as possible because she was only part of a hiring team and barely knew about the role at all.

Another interview I got had the talent acquisition manager mis-read my resume - she thought I had worked years at each of my co-ops. When I told her that they were only four month duration co-ops, which was clearly stated on the resume she did not read (she actually paused for like 5 minutes in the middle of the interview to read my resume), and she actually slammed her clipboard down onto the desk in fury. I almost burst out laughing at the absurdity of the situation, and the rest of the interview ended up turning into seeing how well they could roast me.

I've never gone to an interview after graduation where I'd be speaking with a member of the team - I've never been asked any technical questions, even in interviews they would themselves call "technical interviews".

I live in the GTA and with most of these big companies, they have locations far away and also have locations within the GTA as well. It's really sad when you live five minutes away from one of their actual plants where they could use a chem eng, and instead they want you to work at their amazing facility 300km away.

When I apply for positions in locations close to me, they will always take my personal information and say "congrats, come to an interview!" and I know well enough to quickly check my Excel records. Then I'll realize that I applied for a *different job* in that company, and that the position they're interviewing me is for a technician role in their far-away location. They really want to push the limits. I had one fellow call me for a *one month* contract position, no benefits, part time, 400 km away. Most of my offers for chem eng positions would pay about 30-35k CAD annually.

I really hate to say it, all the interviews that I received from online were fake or very poorly done. Most of the times the interviews would be exceedingly short, like 5-10 minutes. Many times they already have an internal candidate or a family member in mind and want to have paperwork that they interviewed people, and many times they simply will be testing the waters to see what kind of candidates they could get in the future if they wanted to fire the workers that were making a lot of money at their company.

Anyways, I have no family connections - everybody in my family does mostly retail or have been working as mechanics for the last 40 years at a single company. I've been going to job fairs, and those folks working there have gotten really smart as well - they know everybody wants to chat them up and become friends, and most of the people I've met in the fairs actually say to apply online.

Ontario is a really, really backwards kind of place. The whole economy just seems to be service-based, and it's crazy that I saw similar posts saying that - you folks really do know how terrible it is. This forum is extremely local and specific to Canadians. Anyways, my recommendation is to do computer science or something other than engineering. Ontario is a place where you wouldn't find innovation. It's not a crazy coincidence that so many of the previous places I've worked for have shut down their Canadian operations - nobody wants to fork the expensive costs of operating in Canada.
Ironically enough a couple of my friends from school took Chemical and one of them had a job at Canmet Energy and another at shell about a month before graduation. Were you applying to jobs in January of last year or did you wait until you graduated?
Deal Addict
Sep 23, 2009
3475 posts
851 upvotes
What would have happened if you took that one month contract and excelled?

Could be that they gave you a full benefits position.

Instead you just held out for some dream job in a dream location.

Come on man.

At least they want you to work for them. Sure it's not the best right now, but that's life.

You put in the hard work now and hopefully in the end it works out.

Maybe after 12 months, you will shut up and just take the job that they offer.

Most temp jobs are to see if you have common sense and ability to actually do something.

Yes, some companies have abused temp work initiatives, but it seems more like you are just complaining because you read temp=bad on the internet.
Member
Aug 8, 2010
244 posts
27 upvotes
nikels21 wrote:
Dec 31st, 2016 2:17 pm
Ironically enough a couple of my friends from school took Chemical and one of them had a job at Canmet Energy and another at shell about a month before graduation. Were you applying to jobs in January of last year or did you wait until you graduated?
what is that then?
Another explanation maybe because your friends are white, while OP is a minority?
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User avatar
Aug 10, 2015
1105 posts
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St. Catharines, ON
Thanks for sharing your story.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jul 6, 2008
556 posts
105 upvotes
Toronto
You should take what you can get, build some connections and keep applying while working for contract or temp. You need some real world experience, find a niche where it is in demand then study it, market yourself to that demand.

When I graduated, I was coding for minimum-wage (no better than working labor jobs) because it was dirty cheap for engineering companies and government was paying half of my salary. Sucked it up and ditched them after I quickly learned everything. Found something better then learned how the company politics work, and something important I learned over the years. "If you teach somebody what you do, then you are replaceable". Pretty much being royal won't get you anyway, it is all about the backstabbing and using leverage to negotiate higher salary. You are bound to burn some bridges but you will also build new ones.
Newbie
Dec 30, 1969
23 posts
2 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
Thanks for the well written and informative post OP.

I found your post mind boggling and brutal to read. When topic of young university graduate being unemployed/ underemployed comes up, typical responses I see are "you should've went into STEM instead of arts" and "you should've did co-op/ got relevant job experience"

Yet here is OP who is underemployed as a Waterloo engineering grad with multiple coop experience. It makes you wonder where the bar is set for young graduates who don't have the right connections.

Keep your head up OP. You are unlucky to have graduated at a time where oil crash wiped out good chunk of chem eng jobs. My advice would be to broaden your job search criteria . I have engineering graduate friends who work in fields like logistics, supply management, and finance. While your studies have not opened any doors yet, ability to work with numbers and ability to solve problems should be an asset to many employers. An alternate advice would be to consider more schooling. Consider graduate work in more profitable sectors within engineering or even professional schools. 3.9 transcript in engineering from Waterloo will make you competitive for just about all professional programs across Canada.

Lastly, what kind of area in GTA did OP grow up in? My own experiences tell me immigrant kids and their parents are far more fixated on post secondary education than the locals.
Member
Dec 5, 2010
481 posts
62 upvotes
that makes me feel so blessed to even have a job that pays well with a college diploma
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Dec 3, 2009
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renoldman wrote:
Dec 31st, 2016 3:08 pm
Instead you just held out for some dream job in a dream location.

Come on man.
This. What salary are you looking to start at in your first year?

Your time of being a ***** to the industry isn't over yet.
Remember to be an RFD-er and NOT a degenerate.
Deal Addict
Oct 16, 2013
1427 posts
283 upvotes
Toronto
I understand your pain. I did study accounting including CMA with distinction. While doing volunteer, co-ops and relocation, yet its hard to find a job.
Newbie
Feb 13, 2015
89 posts
4 upvotes
You probably would not want to work for Apotex anyways. Anyways do what other unemployable capable STEM majors like myself are doing - code ( in the right tech).
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Aug 18, 2005
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ChemEngdude0 wrote:
Dec 31st, 2016 12:43 pm
Hi friends. I wanted to make a post about chemical engineering in Ontario and about how poor the prospects are. I'm going to post a bit about my own history, and if you've faced similar situations as well or have any counter-points, please post them. I think this advice I have to share will be very useful for new engineering grads.
This is probably one of the best organized and written "blog" type posts I have seen on RFD in quite a while. Actually I might suggest a career in journalism and writing, except that it doesn't pay too well. :lol:

I have a few responses to what you've written here:

1. Companies, especially big ones and companies that receive government grants, must fill quotas in terms of the number of people they interview. They have to interview men, women, different races, and meet some politically correct spectrum of requirements. All the while, many times, they already knew they were going to hire a specific internal candidate, or friend/relative or someone in the company. Not fair, but it's true.

2. One of the unfortunate things I have observed in Canada is that we have unavoidable layers of inefficiency relative to other larger markets. Why would a gigantic international company hire people in Canada when they operate in US dollars, and have a lower cost of doing business in the US? Canada adds more costs and complications in terms of export compliance, currency fluctuations, different laws, language complications, taxes. etc. If you are looking to hire top performers, why would you do it in Canada when top performers will prefer to go to the biggest job markets? Canadian companies cannot offer top compensation due to the more expensive business environment. The only way it makes sense is due to the low Canadian dollar. Thank goodness that ORPP pension plan did not get completed, as it would be just another nail in the coffin, as companies will have to put more aside to send to the government instead of top performers.

3. I totally agree with you that Ontario is a backwards kind of place. In Canada and especially Ontario, it seems like corporate socialism is the answer to everything. But the message the government is really sending is that Ontario is NOT the place to open up businesses, R&D, anywhere where you want the top of the top, smartest people. If it continues, we as citizens will being paying most of our money into corporate socialism, and everywhere we shop will be owned by a small number of big companies like Bell, Rogers, Wal Mart, Canadian Tire, big Banks, etc. No more independents, just a closed system with no innovation, or incentive for innovation.

4. I don't know if you are male or female. If your name is obviously from some minority ethnicity, I suggest you submit resumes under the most obvious white male / white female alias name you can think of. This way, you'll avoid getting these 'political correctness obligation interviews'. (As for myself, I have an obvious minority name, but I make sure to conspicuously note on my resume that I'm originally from Ontario.)

5. You need to expand your job search and consider going internationally. Univ of Waterloo is internationally recognized. You might only want to stay if you're able to join the gravy train of a unionized government job, but only if you're willing to put up with incredible inefficiency and politics.
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Deal Addict
Jul 11, 2008
3660 posts
1124 upvotes
So what's your plan going forward?

I personally think MBA w/ something like co-op option could open a lot more doors for you. In general, I think MBA is a waste of money, but at this point, I think there's too much opportunity cost for a top UW eng. graduate. taking a 30-35k CAD job or sitting around doing menial jobs.
I know that chem engs have much more difficulty in finding jobs in uni compared to others like mech or software so you probably could've predicted the poor job market for chem engs.

3.9/4 at UW is no joke so I assume that you'll get similar grades at mba.
laurier's tuition is not that high and they have a lot of co-op connections. If your family is wealthy and can take like 100k hit to further your education, you could look at other professional graduate programs that are more expensive or take longer, but I think mba w/ coop would be the fastest and cheapest way for you to secure a 70k+ cad/yr job in 2 years in ontario.

just my 2 cents.
Newbie
Dec 29, 2012
46 posts
8 upvotes
Toronto
I was in the same situation when I graduated and it took ~1 year for me and some of my current colleagues to eventually break through the recent grad unemployed status
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