Personal Finance

CIBC eliminates Monthly Fee Waiver with $2000 balance for the Everyday Chequing Account (Sept 1, 2017)

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 15th, 2017 1:05 pm
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2001
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nmclean wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 9:13 am
I'm not sure this argument works regarding banks with steadily increasing net incomes in the billions, but anyway... I think your assumption that they need fees to make up for deposits of "little value" is inaccurate. $3.90 equates to only 2.34% of $2000 annually, and they could easily do better than that. I think the real reason for the change is to deliberately make the Everyday Chequing less attractive and push people into switching to the Smart account. They literally advertise the Smart account on the same page that announces this change in the brochure.
The income of the banks is irrelevant - they are an institution that is privately owned and are geared towards making a profit. Sure they work in a highly regulated sector, but as long as we accept that they are private entities we also accept they are there to maximize profits for shareholders.


There are costs associated with a bank account - if there are no fees with the bank account who do you expect to pay these costs? Obviously other customers will, but why is that fair? That is greedy on the part of the "free" customer to expect others to essentially give them a free ride.

Further, the banks can borrow at the overnight rate - which is currently 0.5%. That means that our $2000 balance saves them $10 a year in borrowing costs. Do you really think that offsets the costs associated with having a bank account (debit card, statements, mailouts for agreement changes, etc.)? I don't think so.
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Nov 6, 2013
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angel_wing0 wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 10:27 am
Well easy, if you dont pay, seize the stuff there or dont let you access it until you pay.
Lol.

I mean to say, right now they charge fees to the chequing account. So what if there isn't an account to charge fees to?
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JaiKor wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 10:40 am
I mean to say, right now they charge fees to the chequing account. So what if there isn't an account to charge fees to?
They can take out money from external accounts as long as you authorize them to do so. That's what I do with my TD investments, TD wont allow the money to come from my TD LOC so I made it go out of my HSBC account (which is also a LOC :lol: ).
「もし、奇跡を起こせたら……」
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Nov 25, 2014
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TrevorK wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 10:31 am
The income of the banks is irrelevant - they are an institution that is privately owned and are geared towards making a profit. Sure they work in a highly regulated sector, but as long as we accept that they are private entities we also accept they are there to maximize profits for shareholders.

There are costs associated with a bank account - if there are no fees with the bank account who do you expect to pay these costs? Obviously other customers will, but why is that fair? That is greedy on the part of the "free" customer to expect others to essentially give them a free ride.

Further, the banks can borrow at the overnight rate - which is currently 0.5%. That means that our $2000 balance saves them $10 a year in borrowing costs. Do you really think that offsets the costs associated with having a bank account (debit card, statements, mailouts for agreement changes, etc.)? I don't think so.
To make the case that increasing income is required to cover costs, current income is certainly relevant. It's 50% of the equation. Considering the existing numbers, it's hard to argue. I think what you're really saying is that they need to cover costs and make enough profit, and the disagreement is over the amount of "enough". It seems @mrtrump's logic is, what was enough last year should be enough this year. If he'd said "pure profit" instead of "pure greed" would you still disagree?

You have some interesting thoughts about "greed" on the part of customers. Do you also consider it greedy that you and I are not directly contributing to the maintenance costs of this website?
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Aug 2, 2001
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nmclean wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 12:29 pm
To make the case that increasing income is required to cover costs, current income is certainly relevant. It's 50% of the equation. Considering the existing numbers, it's hard to argue. I think what you're really saying is that they need to cover costs and make enough profit, and the disagreement is over the amount of "enough". It seems @mrtrump's logic is, what was enough last year should be enough this year. If he'd said "pure profit" instead of "pure greed" would you still disagree?
They do not need to make "enough" profit. They need to maximize profit for their shareholders and of course do with within the government regulations. If giving away free accounts maximizes profit in their opinion (e.g. customers then buy other services), they should keep doing it. If it doesn't they should re-evaluate whether that's a good option.
You have some interesting thoughts about "greed" on the part of customers. Do you also consider it greedy that you and I are not directly contributing to the maintenance costs of this website?
You are I are actually contributing to the costs of running the website by having this very discussion. A message forum would not exist without the participants.

Are we contributing enough? That's up to the owners to determine. If not, then asking for a fee to cover costs / bandwidth hardly seems greedy to me. I have seen other message forums do this where they offer elevated status for a donation.
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TrevorK wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 2:00 pm
They do not need to make "enough" profit. They need to maximize profit for their shareholders and of course do with within the government regulations. If giving away free accounts maximizes profit in their opinion (e.g. customers then buy other services), they should keep doing it. If it doesn't they should re-evaluate whether that's a good option.
In other words, yes. It's about increasing profit, not simply adjusting to costs. The only point you actually disagree on is the label of "greed".

TrevorK wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 2:00 pm
You are I are actually contributing to the costs of running the website by having this very discussion. A message forum would not exist without the participants.

Are we contributing enough? That's up to the owners to determine. If not, then asking for a fee to cover costs / bandwidth hardly seems greedy to me. I have seen other message forums do this where they offer elevated status for a donation.
Trevor, stay focused. The currency we're talking about is dollars, not community contributions. To remind you, you said it was greedy to use a service paid for by others. Unless you are making donations based on pro-rated bandwidth costs, it would seem you don't follow your own moral code.
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nmclean wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 2:57 pm
In other words, yes. It's about increasing profit, not simply adjusting to costs. The only point you actually disagree on is the label of "greed".
You and I have not done an analysis to see if their costs are rising. For example if certain costs are tied to labour, that cost may very well be rising.

The conclusion this is not due to an increase of cost is premature on your part. And, at this point, completely false.
Trevor, stay focused. The currency we're talking about is dollars, not community contributions. To remind you, you said it was greedy to use a service paid for by others. Unless you are making donations based on pro-rated bandwidth costs, it would seem you don't follow your own moral code.
Community contributions translate to dollars. Sites like RFD make money off things like advertising (as one means). Threads like this one, where for example you derail it through your lack of knowledge, can contribute to more visitors to the site which potentially increases the ad revenue. Also, by increases visits to the site through search engines it becomes more of a "trusted source" people might actually join, post, contribute, and help generate more advertising dollars.

I'm glad I could help you understand just a little more of how this modern world of ours works! If you need any more help with these simple concepts just let me know and I'll be happy to give you a hand.
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Nov 25, 2014
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TrevorK wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 5:13 pm
You and I have not done an analysis to see if their costs are rising. For example if certain costs are tied to labour, that cost may very well be rising.

The conclusion this is not due to an increase of cost is premature on your part. And, at this point, completely false.
On the other hand, having not done any analysis, your assertion of "completely false" is somehow not premature at all. Whatever you say, boss.

What I do know is that their net income is already steadily increasing without fee increases, so I'm inclined to think it isn't necessary. If you want to indulge in a deeper analysis to confirm or deny that hypothesis, be my guest. :)


TrevorK wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 5:13 pm
Community contributions translate to dollars. Sites like RFD make money off things like advertising (as one means). Threads like this one, where for example you derail it through your lack of knowledge, can contribute to more visitors to the site which potentially increases the ad revenue. Also, by increases visits to the site through search engines it becomes more of a "trusted source" people might actually join, post, contribute, and help generate more advertising dollars.

I'm glad I could help you understand just a little more of how this modern world of ours works! If you need any more help with these simple concepts just let me know and I'll be happy to give you a hand.
Oh, you thought I was asking you to describe the funding process. Sorry for confusing you. Yes, the modern world is full of subsidized services that allow many people to take advantage of them for free or low cost relatively. Ad-funded online services, financial products, airline tickets, and so on. According to you, this is "greed" on the part of consumers. I was just curious how you manage to stay true to your old-fashioned principles in this confusing modern world.
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2001
13763 posts
4332 upvotes
nmclean wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 8:26 pm
On the other hand, having not done any analysis, your assertion of "completely false" is somehow not premature at all. Whatever you say, boss.

What I do know is that their net income is already steadily increasing without fee increases, so I'm inclined to think it isn't necessary. If you want to indulge in a deeper analysis to confirm or deny that hypothesis, be my guest. :)
As I said, at this point, you conclusion is completely false. You have no evidence to back it up. It's just a guess based on no evidence - hardly a valid conclusion.

You're welcome to present evidence as to how you got to your conclusion their costs are not rising, but I suspect this was more just a gut feeling on your part.
Oh, you thought I was asking you to describe the funding process. Sorry for confusing you. Yes, the modern world is full of subsidized services that allow many people to take advantage of them for free or low cost relatively. Ad-funded online services, financial products, airline tickets, and so on. According to you, this is "greed" on the part of consumers. I was just curious how you manage to stay true to your old-fashioned principles in this confusing modern world.
So now you have learned how websites like RFD make money, great. I'm glad I could help.

I explained how people like you and I contribute to them making money in exchange for their services, again glad I could help.

Hopefully this helps you change your stance that it is OK to leech off of everyone else in society. Again, any questions you have about these concepts I'm happy to help!
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Aug 8, 2012
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TrevorK wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 9:51 pm
As I said, at this point, you conclusion is completely false. You have no evidence to back it up. It's just a guess based on no evidence - hardly a valid conclusion.

You're welcome to present evidence as to how you got to your conclusion their costs are not rising, but I suspect this was more just a gut feeling on your part.



So now you have learned how websites like RFD make money, great. I'm glad I could help.

I explained how people like you and I contribute to them making money in exchange for their services, again glad I could help.

Hopefully this helps you change your stance that it is OK to leech off of everyone else in society. Again, any questions you have about these concepts I'm happy to help!
You sir are a master debater of straw men. I bet you've never lost a debate to a straw man before :)

I believe it was you, not he, that brought up the concept of "greedy" customers using free services that cost money, right?

Those greedy customers contribute value to the company as well. They are are constant targets of advertising and upsells.

Do you listen to the radio? It's free. Or perhaps you only listen to paid subscription satellite radio? Ever watch free broadcast television?

Are you a greedy leech if you say yes?

If the bank offers a 'free' service and the customer avail themselves of it I don't consider that greedy. Or leechy.

It is their chosen business model to do it that way.

"Glad I could help"
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ace604 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2017 9:30 pm
+1 effort for trolling.
+1 usage of straw men.
+1 resorting to ad hominem when all else fails.
LOL, not as active on the forums anymore but this seems like deja vu from years ago since it's the same person and same tactics but in another thread. Expect you will never get the last word as well. It seems like time goes by but people don't change.
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Nov 22, 2015
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killer_chan wrote:
Jun 16th, 2017 8:43 am
I have a Grandfathered down account and got the notice, looks like it will be converted.
yesnomaybe wrote:
Jun 15th, 2017 11:22 pm
Hope they're not touching grandfathered accounts. I have the CIBC Waive account (fees waived with $1500 balance).
Did you even read the changes?? There are no changes to grandfathered accounts.
Sr. Member
Jan 20, 2004
949 posts
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GTA
Just opened the everyday chequing last year.

I am over the min. But if they are starting to take fees then I will switch accounts or banks.

Looking at the CIBC website I can't find any other chequing accounts that waive fees. Any one suggest another bank? with a good CC and chequing/savings? (I already an invested in TD, would like another bank)
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Apr 23, 2017
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OracerO wrote:
Jun 18th, 2017 11:43 pm
Just opened the everyday chequing last year.

I am over the min. But if they are starting to take fees then I will switch accounts or banks.

Looking at the CIBC website I can't find any other chequing accounts that waive fees. Any one suggest another bank? with a good CC and chequing/savings? (I already an invested in TD, would like another bank)
Which b&M banks have checking accounts which waive the monthly fees with a minimum balance?

TD (Everyday - $3,000 minimum, Unlimited - $4,000 minimum, All-Inclusive - $5,000 minimum)
BMO (Plus - $3,000 minimum, Performance - $4,000 minimum, Premium - $6,000 minimum)
Scotiabank (Scotia One - $4,000 minimum)
HSBC (Advance - $25,000 minimum combined accounts/investments)
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OracerO wrote:
Jun 18th, 2017 11:43 pm
Just opened the everyday chequing last year.

I am over the min. But if they are starting to take fees then I will switch accounts or banks.

Looking at the CIBC website I can't find any other chequing accounts that waive fees. Any one suggest another bank? with a good CC and chequing/savings? (I already an invested in TD, would like another bank)
They have a Smart account that waive fees with $3000 mbm.
「もし、奇跡を起こせたら……」

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