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Locked: Commentary and Questions Regarding Inconsistent Application of Forum Rules

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  • Jun 17th, 2012 5:55 pm
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geokilla wrote:
Jun 16th, 2012 8:21 pm
What amazes me is that no admin has posted yet.... It's been 2 full days now. Usually the admins are quick to post.
it's the weekend.
admins rarely browse the forums during the weekend.
i don't blame them. it is their paying job to browse the site during the weekdays, so why would/should they visit the site when they don't have to?
“Children see magic because they look for it.”
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ippon wrote:
Jun 16th, 2012 11:34 pm
it's the weekend.
admins rarely browse the forums during the weekend.
i don't blame them. it is their paying job to browse the site during the weekdays, so why would/should they visit the site when they don't have to?
I guess that's the difference between the old admins(pre-YPG) and the current group.
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Drew87 wrote:
Jun 16th, 2012 9:11 pm
I understand where you're coming from, I was just giving you my point of view, and my point of view is that despite how "carefully thought out" your posts have been, they may also be the reason WHY you haven't gotten a response..It's easy to think you're in the right or that your approach is right.....Sometimes you have to step outside of your own mind/point of view and try to see it from a different angle.... I know you're a smart guy and you wouldn't post something like this without having a just cause.

Best of luck - I'm interested in oranr's response to your original posts because I have questions of my own that you posted that I'd like an answer to.
he'll respond with some words and come down with a hammer and lock this thread.
am i being hard on him? sure i am. but only because he deserves it.
ishfish wrote:
Jun 16th, 2012 9:18 pm
I find the politics and character of the site quite fascinating.

But at the end of the day I know my participation on the site is more of a priviledge than a right. And that it is an exercise in respect not necessarily agreement. And deleting your signature was respectful if Hitman found it to be an unfortunate quote of his.

But I understand ippon questioning the deletion of his sig. as I personally thought it to be the opposite of sexist. I don't even know if I would call it religious. And a healthy site/staff allow reasonable questioning. I am sure this past week has not been an easy one for them.
no doubt about that. but i'm sure they were expecting a backlash.
it's easy to criticize, i know. i work in the online biz, so i know how easy it is to criticize the customer facing end of the business.
but the admin's attitude seems to be that 'if you don't like the rules, either shut up or leave'.
i say, if you can't handle your job, go find another job.
“Children see magic because they look for it.”
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_Allan_ wrote:
Jun 16th, 2012 1:12 am
While RFD is NOT a democracy, they do have to listen to their members, or risk losing members, and federal and provincial laws, or risk fines.
I'll post a PERSONAL case:
July 11, 2011, I received a PM from ornar, requesting my avatar be removed immediately, as he had been made aware, that my avatar "was in violation of site rules as "political or otherwise controversial content".
Around 4 hours later, I replied below, and haven't heard from him since. THUS, I think ornar DOES understand business a bit better than he lets on:
(My response to his demand for me to remove my avatar)
Thank you for pointing that out.

Since it works for your Jesus saves avatar then there shouldn't be a problem for satanists, atheists, Muslims and a host of others with religious beliefs to use their avatar and signature files on RFD to promote their views on religion.

It's a two way street...right?
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jerrysiz wrote:
Jun 16th, 2012 12:05 pm
This. If the mods are removing avatars/sigs that are critical of religion, they should also be removing ones promoting it.
+1 Many contend secularism/atheism are religions themselves so a Human Rights Commission complaint against YPG should work just as well if they censored that content.
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_Allan_ wrote:
Jun 16th, 2012 1:12 am
While RFD is NOT a democracy, they do have to listen to their members, or risk losing members, and federal and provincial laws, or risk fines.
I'll post a PERSONAL case:
July 11, 2011, I received a PM from ornar, requesting my avatar be removed immediately, as he had been made aware, that my avatar "was in violation of site rules as "political or otherwise controversial content".
Around 4 hours later, I replied below, and haven't heard from him since. THUS, I think ornar DOES understand business a bit better than he lets on:
(My response to his demand for me to remove my avatar)
Hey make a 8x10 of your avatar paste to the wall of bloor station, and see how far you get in court. Bloor station like this site have rules deal with it.
Hitman21 wrote:
Jun 16th, 2012 12:01 pm
Who cares if its offensive :facepalm: you dont have the right not to be offended. Apparently you haven't heard of Free Speech :facepalm:

Why does the CHRISTIAN avatar bother you yet I hear nothing from you about other religious avatars, double standards and hypocrisy
Says the guy who just back from a temp ban, due to not following basic site rules.
NG wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 7:24 am
Thank you for pointing that out.

Since it works for your Jesus saves avatar then there shouldn't be a problem for satanists, atheists, Muslims and a host of others with religious beliefs to use their avatar and signature files on RFD to promote their views on religion.

It's a two way street...right?
I bet his eyes will gloss over on that one.
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..
Agafaba: "Hitman doesnt troll, he just has very strong opinions about controversial topics"
stealth: "Classic Hitman response. ;) A God amongst trolls"
pablonutribar: "Hehehe - you are a god amongst trolls."
king_george: "Keep up the good fight you awesome freeedom fighter you"
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NG wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 7:30 am
+1 Many contend secularism/atheism are religions themselves so a Human Rights Commission complaint against YPG should work just as well if they censored that content.
Yeah but they aren't. I for one don't believe in anything except for Toonie Tuesday but that doesn't make me religious. In fact, non-religious people being called atheists is pretty offending to begin with. It's not exactly a nice name and it's been always been viewed as a negative aspect of a person to be non-religious. Please rid the term of atheist. :facepalm:

Anyhow. Allan please don't hide behind the legalities of this country because I can tell you right now that if you stand yourself behind human rights, discrimination, or any other excuse you will not win. RFD has simply, at no exception banned religious content and you are no exception. Religion is irrelevant to RFD as a deal-hunting community and you may express your ideas and opinions relevantly. Now I too ask you to remove any religious avatar or content that you have contributed to in this forum because you are no exception. When I find myself breaking the rule I oblige (for example).
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wilsonlam97 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 11:41 am
Yeah but they aren't.
We'll have to agree to disagree. As a devout secularist I content it is and I expect YPG management to respect my rights as defined by the Human Rights Commission to have an avatar/signature file telling people they'll burn in hell eternal unless they embrace secularism as the one true path. Exactly the same right Allan has demanded.

Unless, of course, YPG lawyers decide that his avatar and proselytizing on this site isn't protected speech and his avatar is removed. Then everything will be kosh...err cool.
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NG wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 11:56 am
We'll have to agree to disagree. As a devout secularist I content it is and I expect YPG management to respect my rights as defined by the Human Rights Commission to have an avatar/signature file telling people they'll burn in hell eternal unless they embrace secularism as the one true path.
Completely disagree with you, that is totally wrong since people have the freedom to worship any religion.
Agafaba: "Hitman doesnt troll, he just has very strong opinions about controversial topics"
stealth: "Classic Hitman response. ;) A God amongst trolls"
pablonutribar: "Hehehe - you are a god amongst trolls."
king_george: "Keep up the good fight you awesome freeedom fighter you"
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Hitman21 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 11:37 am
I never complained about your sig, in one of the other posts I said I liked it. How about you stop making false accusations, I have no idea who reported you but it was probably some dumb PC who was upset about the word gay and couldn't handle it. I want to know who complained about it.

You cant take RFD to the HRT, they shouldn't even exist in the first place and this is not a case of human rights being violated. Businesses have the right to discriminate against anyone especially on there religion if its violent.

Having a political forum is for the best.
You just have no idea when to stop, do you? Trying to use OT as your personal soap box to push your political and religious views.

Not sure how many times the mods and the admin have to say this to you. THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A POLITICAL FORUM AND IT WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED UNTIL PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF START BEHAVING AND FOLLOWING THE RULES!

If you are that mad about the rules, there is no one stopping you from never posting here again (or at least in OT). Or maybe you are just looking to see how far you can push until you get the perma ban hammer to come down on you.
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Hitman21 wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 12:18 pm
Completely disagree with you, that is totally wrong since people have the freedom to worship any religion.
If it is true that Allan's avatar falls under protected speech under Canada law (aka Human Rights Commission) then we'd be in agreement.

I sincerely hope, once this is confirmed one way or the other, you'll support the avatar's and signature files of others who choose to express their freedom of religious views for secularism, atheism, satanism, Islam and other religions.

I patiently await the ruling of YPG lawyers to see if this will be acceptable for any and every religion.
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ippon wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 12:29 am
no doubt about that. but i'm sure they were expecting a backlash.
it's easy to criticize, i know. i work in the online biz, so i know how easy it is to criticize the customer facing end of the business.
Point VERY well taken ippon...I couldn't agree more.

The political / religious topic ban is a perfect example. The bulk of the comments surrounding this political / religious topic ban issue ( and most issues members whine and complain about for that matter ) is very heavy on criticism and extremely light on specific suggestions how to make improvements on the enforcement of the ban by the mods / admin as it currently exists. As you say, criticizing is dead easy....in fact, criticizing is one of the easiest things in the world to do. Having all the whiners who flood these forums with endless criticisms to also come up with concrete, constructive suggestions that address their own criticisms is the tough part.

So, we had this political / religious topic ban put into effect mere weeks ago, and in the opinion of a miniscule % of the RFD population the enforcement isn't ' perfect ', ' 100% consistent ' 100% of time. For any member to have an expectation of " perfection " in the rule enforcement on such a new rule change is both naive and grossly unfair IMO .....at best...... all you can hope for is that there is a " high batting average " when it comes to enforcing this rule. And that's what's happening now....most of the political thread ARE being caught...and yes some non-political threads may be getting caught up in the process now and again. But in the vast majority of cases, the rule is being well enforced by the mods / admin and I for one and not buying into all this propaganda that the mods / admin are doing a poor job with respect to this rule. They aren't doing a " perfect " job..that's about it...but their " high batting average " is high. And if members want to raise the " batting average " to meet their unrealistic expectations of " perfection ", then fine.....' walk the talk ' and come up their own concrete guidelines / suggestions as to what a political / religious topic actually is...that the mods / admin can use to achieve the nirvana of enforcement " perfection ".

And on the topic of propaganda...the constant bashing, disparaging and haranguing of mods / oranr themselves is a perfect example. The propaganda that this crop of mods / admin is somehow the problem / issue would be prosperous if it weren't so ludicrous.. You could replace every mod / admin we now have, with new ones and you'd quickly have the exact same degree of whining an complaining from the same exact number of usual suspects who stalk this forum. The fact is, none of the chronic whiners we see on this forum - if put in the position of a mod / admin - could do any better job than what we're getting from our mods / admin ....if anything, I'd venture to guess it would be significantly worse...at least IMO.
.
ippon wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 12:29 am
but the admin's attitude seems to be that 'if you don't like the rules, either shut up or leave'.
And it's a perfectly valid attitude IMO.

The rules ARE the rules......members don't have to like it, agree with it or even endorse it....they simply are expected to follow the rules.
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D-Roc wrote:
Jun 17th, 2012 12:21 pm
You just have no idea when to stop, do you? Trying to use OT as your personal soap box to push your political and religious views.

Not sure how many times the mods and the admin have to say this to you. THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A POLITICAL FORUM AND IT WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED UNTIL PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF START BEHAVING AND FOLLOWING THE RULES!

If you are that mad about the rules, there is no one stopping you from never posting here again (or at least in OT). Or maybe you are just looking to see how far you can push until you get the perma ban hammer to come down on you.
+1

I think the political / religious topic ban was the right thing to do for RFD at this time, and also think the new stricter rules oranr has put in place is as equally warranted, appropriate and relevant - and I think both send a strong message.

But, we very seldom see ' perma bans ' issued on this site...and I think there is a dire need to have them become much much more common. I think, if as you say, oranr would ' put the hammer down ' by issuing a few more ' perma bans ' to our habitual offenders...it would further underscore the message oranr and the mods are trying to get across.

I like the ' 3 strikes and you're out ' approach myself....2 temp bans and if you get a 3rd ban.......you've banned from the site for life.

It's amazing how ' neutered ' members can become in their conduct when they have 2 temp bans under their belt...and a lifetime ban is staring them in the face. ;) ...... :lol: :lol:
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Religious discussion is not permitted on RFD!

I don't encourage any kind of discussion or flaming that might result in getting this thread locked! (I have a feeling some people are looking for the opposite response.)

I hope other people don't get drawn into some kind of inappropriate discussion that will create more problems and let the original purpose of this thread be forgotten.
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

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