Computer Science / Computer Engineering Bachelor of Science?

[Djay230]

How would you define good investment? Lets start there eh? Others have gone off on your attitude, but the problem I see here is you have asked the question in a way that no one can just directly answer it. If you want a discussion, great, but you also make it pretty clear you just want a yes/no type answer (from someone qualified, lol).

I'd say that any career that pays off your school costs within a year of fulltime employment (assuming you are able to save say 50% of your salary) is probably worth it as an "investment". *Obviously* you should consider things like if it's something you want to do as a profession, will you still want to do it in 10 yrs, will it still exist in 10 yrs, will the pay be "good" in 10 yrs, etc. I'd say that most careers, including comp sci are worth the school investment, although there are definitely exceptions. Hope that helps.



Hmmm, where to start. Ahh, first I suppose I should say that while I am a comp sci graduate, I did indeed work at a grocery store while I was doing my schooling. So walmart might not be that bad of a place to start with. On the OTHER hand... have you ever considered that if you ask a biased source something you'll get a biased answer? If you phoned up Apple and asked them if investing in a mac was worthwhile, do you think they'd tell you "well, it depends, quite possibly not, as they are generally overpriced"?

So here's what I'd say. When you don't even know what kind of a job you'd like to work at, the only thing you should be dedicating a chunk of your life to is to finding out what you are good at, what job you would like to do, and if you are capable of doing that job. *Then* you can worry about a chunk of your "life savings", which honestly dude, cannot be that great if you've never had a career.

Thanks fr your educated answer

I'm here. Big problem with these courses is the unemployment is fairly high, and there's huge amounts of underemployment. And, for lack of better words, a good chunk of the business world doesn't really appreciate the efforts of people in the industry, and this shows in how they are treated in the workforce.



Here's the problem with that line of thinking; IT careers usually don't last all that long (ie: once you're over 50, most firms won't even bother to interview you). And if you graduate in the wrong year, good luck getting an interview at all. Not only are these programs extremely difficult, but there's a huge amount of risk in employment. Employers generally aren't looking for a CS or CompE grad -- they're looking for someone with in-depth skills in C, Java, networking, etc. Which means that, if your skills don't match the immediate need, most employers aren't willing to even talk to you.

Its not unheard of for grads to spend years unemployed before they find their first jobs. And organizations tend to cap their IT people at $80-$100k/year at the most, unless one moves into a management job which tend to be few and far between.

I am wondering if co-op would be a good choice, you see my dad is pushing the buttons of my studies because he himself is a computer programmer. He works on j.d. Edwards, and has had a steady job the past 20-30 years, from IBM to BMW, to many other companies. He is now a contractor instead of working full time. He makes roughly 130k (before tax) after paying off the agent each year and he's in mid 50's (age)

He told me if I took computer science, bachelors of science I would end up being hired and schooled/ trained by companies via co-op from there I would move to a full time job and earn quality salaries.
If this is true I don't mind pursuing this career as I do enjoy it. I am only afraid f walking out of university with a 30k paying job not enough to pay the loans, have a mortgage, etc. no house no car ... Basically rock bottom

I am wondering if going to college and specializing in a computer language would be better.
My father keeps telling me once I get a good degree in computer science it will be great pay with ease.

Please let me know what is true, what is false and basically what you would suggest.

I am also considering apprenticeships for labour jobs, not sure if that would be a safe road. Anyways get back to me ASAP if you have the time. Thanks for your answer, I really appreciate you not bashing me either.

Many thanks,

[Mykester]

I have a PhD in this field and have been unable to find a job for the past 4 years. I recommend Asia Studies.

Good luck

[motto1997]

Thanks fr your educated answer



I am wondering if co-op would be a good choice, you see my dad is pushing the buttons of my studies because he himself is a computer programmer. He works on j.d. Edwards, and has had a steady job the past 20-30 years, from IBM to BMW, to many other companies. He is now a contractor instead of working full time. He makes roughly 130k (before tax) after paying off the agent each year and he's in mid 50's (age)

He told me if I took computer science, bachelors of science I would end up being hired and schooled/ trained by companies via co-op from there I would move to a full time job and earn quality salaries.
If this is true I don't mind pursuing this career as I do enjoy it. I am only afraid f walking out of university with a 30k paying job not enough to pay the loans, have a mortgage, etc. no house no car ... Basically rock bottom

I am wondering if going to college and specializing in a computer language would be better.
My father keeps telling me once I get a good degree in computer science it will be great pay with ease.

Please let me know what is true, what is false and basically what you would suggest.

I am also considering apprenticeships for labour jobs, not sure if that would be a safe road. Anyways get back to me ASAP if you have the time. Thanks for your answer, I really appreciate you not bashing me either.

Many thanks,

How do you go from asking about a computer science/engineering degree to an apprenticeship for a labour job whilst insulting everyone/anyone without a formal education. As others have said, you're arrogance and lack of respect will not bode well for ANY career choice you decide. Worse, you've somehow gained this entitlement syndrome before the start of your degree. As well your English writing skills are poor. I'd offer some advice, but the last thing an engineering department needs is another arrogant, prospective engineer.

[tuk123]

Once again, I'm pretty sure I stated for all uneducated minds to not reply, I guess telling uneducated people not to reply is hard because they're education holds them back from understanding the purpose of the sentence. Tough world.

Beside mannerism, you seem to lack reading comprehension and logic. I already stated I graduated from CS and in the field you covet, while you're sitting outside uneducated and looking in.

You may not think so, but I am giving you advise. The degree and roles you are inquiring requires a level of logic that you have yet to display. People like yourself can be successful but you need to be cream of the crop for others to put up with the rest of your attitude. I know I am not smart enough and I know very few that are.

As for consulting gig like your dad is doing, I done it too. Guess what? Soft skills matter even more as you're partially trying to sell yourself as well as being the subject matter expert.

[RSX-S]

op please do not enter this field. I am in this field and i would not want do deal with people with this type of attitude.

Before trying to come up with some type of retaliation, i have a computer engineering degree and years of experience managing enterprise it systems.

like other posters, i will be more then happy to help answer this type of question on this board. Just not to you.

sorry your uneducated mind is not needed or wanted So having an Engineering degree and yrs of experience is uneducated now days. Learned something new today.
i am sure i will not be working with you, i don't work with people Don't work with people??? So you want to be an anti social dude typing codes for 8hrs straight /day without interacting with a real human? "Insert Forever Alone Picture"
with uneducated minds, i might be your boss one day but i will never work with you. No worries. Good luck :P You need lots and lots of them

LMAO..lololol.. I am out of this thread. It is really funny that someone who is deciding on what do study (obviously uneducated) tries to insult well educated and experienced regular posters on this forums.

[mingming]

[Having a degree <> career on a silver plate]

- If you have a good mindset, drive, and attitude, ANY degree will be a good investment.
- If you have none of those, even the BEST degree will be USELESS.

Before you question my education, Elec/Comp Engineering grad working in a Big4 firm.

But to answer your questions before you insult me too:
- salaries: $0 > limitless
- jobs: homeless > CEO of facebook

And don't be insulting the posters in HR that deal with resumes and careers without your "so called education". Those are the very people you have to go through when job hunting before you even reach the hiring managers. These guys know their stuff and often have a big say on whether or not you get the job.

Take the advice on this thread. Fix up the attitude.

[xg3]

Quickly glance through these posts, and sure alot of craps ... but some are true.

I am an IT Manager in a public company, so here is my feedback.

1. Having a Com sci degree or engineering degree is almost a must to be on par or stand out of the crowd.
2. Some entry level do not need cs or engineering degree, but it will limits in the future. I have hired programmer without CS degree; they are just fine.
3. IT is a broad field (is not just programming); stretching from networking, programming, system analysts, QA'er, implementers and etc..
4. In a smaller company, you will have more chance in working with couple of areas
5. In larger companies, you will have to be more specialized.
6. Is true, in house IT team are usually capped; but they are also heavily outsourced. Eg, IBM, HP and other solution companies. This keeps your headcount low. Honestly, is easier to call a vendor and pay them $150/hr than to have a guy sit here at 60k salary.
7. Age doesn't matter, but you got to show you are moving with technology. Don't ever get stuck in maintaining old technologies, you will eventually get phased out.
8. Certificates are nice to have; depending on your role.

The people with the most prospect future in IT are (in no particular order):
1. Managers, these are hard to come by. IT Managers are people who are good at team leading, project managing, budget planning, less technical people. They know are more focused to use technology for business needs. Rarely, you promote a programmer or network guy to be a manager; those guys are perfectionist and got no idea how to add business value. Selling IT is as important as maintaining it. I would say 9.99/10 software in every companies are never fully utilized to their true value.
2. Business System Analyst. These are hard to find, people that are equally skillful in process changes and technical requirements. These roles are high paying and jobs are abundance. Specializing in ERP or accounting and some kind of database knowledge makes you desirable.

In short, IT is a field that is continously moving; today is web, tomorrow it might be something else. Like all jobs, if you know how to create business values; you will be successful in anything you study.

[Djay230]

How do you go from asking about a computer science/engineering degree to an apprenticeship for a labour job whilst insulting everyone/anyone without a formal education. As others have said, you're arrogance and lack of respect will not bode well for ANY career choice you decide. Worse, you've somehow gained this entitlement syndrome before the start of your degree. As well your English writing skills are poor. I'd offer some advice, but the last thing an engineering department needs is another arrogant, prospective engineer.

It's called being on an ipod when you're half asleep trying to reply to some of the comments as fast as you can so you can get to bed and go to school tomorrow. Sorry internet freak but this isn't a English essay contest its a internet forum no one gives two shits about grammar. Second of all, if you knew anything about labour jobs you will know they pay very well. I know several students that went into apprenticeships and after 4 years of working / studying they're making 6 figures and will continue to do so. They're getting great health care, benefits and depending on how efficient they work the pay fluctuates accordingly.

I know I have already told several members they're uneducated minds and answers were not needed, however this seemed like something I needed to reply to mainly because its a prime example of a internet troll. You have NO reason to reply other than to bash/insult other members and therefore you're the exact type of person I was trying to avoid. Simply put, you're a moron.

P.S Your "English writing skills" are just next to my little cousins.

Beside mannerism, you seem to lack reading comprehension and logic. I already stated I graduated from CS and in the field you covet, while you're sitting outside uneducated and looking in.

You may not think so, but I am giving you advise. The degree and roles you are inquiring requires a level of logic that you have yet to display. People like yourself can be successful but you need to be cream of the crop for others to put up with the rest of your attitude. I know I am not smart enough and I know very few that are.

As for consulting gig like your dad is doing, I done it too. Guess what? Soft skills matter even more as you're partially trying to sell yourself as well as being the subject matter expert.

Once again, I'm pretty sure I stated for all uneducated minds to not reply, I guess telling uneducated people not to reply is hard because they're education holds them back from understanding the purpose of the sentence. Tough world.

LMAO..lololol.. I am out of this thread. It is really funny that someone who is deciding on what do study (obviously uneducated) tries to insult well educated and experienced regular posters on this forums.

Obviously no one cares about your absence, please leave. Haha gave me a great laugh when you said "well educated"!
It's funny how you're bashing me about talking about a future/ education when you said

I will be graduating in a couple of months with a computer engineering degree. I haven't had much luck finding a job in Canada so I am considering finding a job in the USA. Can somebody give me some advice and possible strategy?

This is why I do not want to get advice from people like you, it is simply coming from someone who themselves CANNOT find a job and is planning to travel across borders just to get some food on the table. Before you talk about the date of the post I simply do not take that into account, fact is, you yourself was begging a internet forum but at this very moment you call yourself and other members "well educated and experienced". Man I'd hate to be in your spot asking the internet for a job because I didn't plan my career out.

[Having a degree <> career on a silver plate]

- If you have a good mindset, drive, and attitude, ANY degree will be a good investment.
- If you have none of those, even the BEST degree will be USELESS.

Before you question my education, Elec/Comp Engineering grad working in a Big4 firm.

But to answer your questions before you insult me too:
- salaries: $0 > limitless
- jobs: homeless > CEO of facebook

And don't be insulting the posters in HR that deal with resumes and careers without your "so called education". Those are the very people you have to go through when job hunting before you even reach the hiring managers. These guys know their stuff and often have a big say on whether or not you get the job.

Take the advice on this thread. Fix up the attitude.

First of all, "the posters in HR" are nowhere to be found, the posters I have replied too are all the same hooligans you find playing video games all day that have nothing better to do but go here and post random comments. If I had not said what has been said in my original post there would be plenty more of these. However the some of the uneducated minds have enough respect to understand that I simply want an answer from someone who knows what they're talking about. The uneducated minds that have NOT understood that have been dealt with accordingly.

I do not take advice from uneducated minds so therefore any gesture of what they have said has not been taken into account. However I have nothing against you since you did in fact try to answer the question other than comment on the type of way it was asked.

Quickly glance through these posts, and sure alot of craps ... but some are true.

I am an IT Manager in a public company, so here is my feedback.

1. Having a Com sci degree or engineering degree is almost a must to be on par or stand out of the crowd.
2. Some entry level do not need cs or engineering degree, but it will limits in the future. I have hired programmer without CS degree; they are just fine.
3. IT is a broad field (is not just programming); stretching from networking, programming, system analysts, QA'er, implementers and etc..
4. In a smaller company, you will have more chance in working with couple of areas
5. In larger companies, you will have to be more specialized.
6. Is true, in house IT team are usually capped; but they are also heavily outsourced. Eg, IBM, HP and other solution companies. This keeps your headcount low. Honestly, is easier to call a vendor and pay them $150/hr than to have a guy sit here at 60k salary.
7. Age doesn't matter, but you got to show you are moving with technology. Don't ever get stuck in maintaining old technologies, you will eventually get phased out.
8. Certificates are nice to have; depending on your role.

The people with the most prospect future in IT are (in no particular order):
1. Managers, these are hard to come by. IT Managers are people who are good at team leading, project managing, budget planning, less technical people. They know are more focused to use technology for business needs. Rarely, you promote a programmer or network guy to be a manager; those guys are perfectionist and got no idea how to add business value. Selling IT is as important as maintaining it. I would say 9.99/10 software in every companies are never fully utilized to their true value.
2. Business System Analyst. These are hard to find, people that are equally skillful in process changes and technical requirements. These roles are high paying and jobs are abundance. Specializing in ERP or accounting and some kind of database knowledge makes you desirable.

In short, IT is a field that is continously moving; today is web, tomorrow it might be something else. Like all jobs, if you know how to create business values; you will be successful in anything you study.

First of all I'd like to thank you for putting your time into answering my questions.
Okay so lets get started, I have a couple follow up questions to your answer I hope you don't mind answering. When you say "Business System Analyst" is this similar to someone using J.D Edwards? Or something more advanced?
What are some estimated starting salaries out of university? How hard will it be to get the first job, is a MA recommended or "grad" school recommended after university of course?

[xg3]

Business or business system or system analyst are somewhat different... But in short they create work processes that work with applications constraint...

Jd Edwards, net suite, saas are all erp systems... It all depends if the company or role require these skills. They are quite hard to learn and specialize in school, at least I am not aware of you can at all. Most people only specialize in one or two particular modules of a erp...

All the analyst roles you notice online require alot of business and operation sense. These are things you won't learn in a CS program. quite frankly, most ppl just got lucky and got experience in those areas; why would you ever train a developer with logistical and crm skill, right?

As for master, it depends who you are asking and which organization you are applying for. Some are heavily dependent on grades while others not so much. It also depends on your hiring manager.... Personally for me, experience and attitude > school. As mention above, when you are about 5+ year of exp, edu means really nothing; but a must have. What you need to look for is a job where you can be exposed to many front of IT to truely experience it all.

Keep this in mind, IT people are a dime and dozen... Programming and development you can always outsource... But not IT Business analyst, they work with people to implement the solutions; and that's value.

Come one IT with something you enjoy doing and you will have a fun career.

[vctr288]

1. Go to glassdoor.com
2. Enter a few companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple
3. Click Salaries.

Quite misleading to look at those companies. How many people can actually get into those firms?
In fact, over 90% of comp. sci students get into those business companies and making business/financial/"boring" applications.

Keep in mind that it's hard to be a technical person till retirement. You need to move into management(within IT) positions at some point in time.

[Djay230]

Business or business system or system analyst are somewhat different... But in short they create work processes that work with applications constraint...

Jd Edwards, net suite, saas are all erp systems... It all depends if the company or role require these skills. They are quite hard to learn and specialize in school, at least I am not aware of you can at all. Most people only specialize in one or two particular modules of a erp...

All the analyst roles you notice online require alot of business and operation sense. These are things you won't learn in a CS program. quite frankly, most ppl just got lucky and got experience in those areas; why would you ever train a developer with logistical and crm skill, right?

As for master, it depends who you are asking and which organization you are applying for. Some are heavily dependent on grades while others not so much. It also depends on your hiring manager.... Personally for me, experience and attitude > school. As mention above, when you are about 5+ year of exp, edu means really nothing; but a must have. What you need to look for is a job where you can be exposed to many front of IT to truely experience it all.

Keep this in mind, IT people are a dime and dozen... Programming and development you can always outsource... But not IT Business analyst, they work with people to implement the solutions; and that's value.

Come one IT with something you enjoy doing and you will have a fun career.

Okay thanks for your detailed answer, I will look into IT Business analyst / IT Business in general.

[aaaaaa]

It's called being on an ipod when you're half asleep trying to reply to some of the comments as fast as you can so you can get to bed and go to school tomorrow. Sorry internet freak but this isn't a English essay contest its a internet forum no one gives two shits about grammar. Second of all, if you knew anything about labour jobs you will know they pay very well. I know several students that went into apprenticeships and after 4 years of working / studying they're making 6 figures and will continue to do so. They're getting great health care, benefits and depending on how efficient they work the pay fluctuates accordingly.
I know I have already told several members they're uneducated minds and answers were not needed, however this seemed like something I needed to reply to mainly because its a prime example of a internet troll. You have NO reason to reply other than to bash/insult other members and therefore you're the exact type of person I was trying to avoid. Simply put, you're a moron.
P.S Your "English writing skills" are just next to my little cousins.
Once again, I'm pretty sure I stated for all uneducated minds to not reply, I guess telling uneducated people not to reply is hard because they're education holds them back from understanding the purpose of the sentence. Tough world.
Obviously no one cares about your absence, please leave. Haha gave me a great laugh when you said "well educated"!
It's funny how you're bashing me about talking about a future/ education when you said
This is why I do not want to get advice from people like you, it is simply coming from someone who themselves CANNOT find a job and is planning to travel across borders just to get some food on the table. Before you talk about the date of the post I simply do not take that into account, fact is, you yourself was begging a internet forum but at this very moment you call yourself and other members "well educated and experienced". Man I'd hate to be in your spot asking the internet for a job because I didn't plan my career out.
First of all, "the posters in HR" are nowhere to be found, the posters I have replied too are all the same hooligans you find playing video games all day that have nothing better to do but go here and post random comments. If I had not said what has been said in my original post there would be plenty more of these. However the some of the uneducated minds have enough respect to understand that I simply want an answer from someone who knows what they're talking about. The uneducated minds that have NOT understood that have been dealt with accordingly.
I do not take advice from uneducated minds so therefore any gesture of what they have said has not been taken into account. However I have nothing against you since you did in fact try to answer the question other than comment on the type of way it was asked.
First of all I'd like to thank you for putting your time into answering my questions.
Okay so lets get started, I have a couple follow up questions to your answer I hope you don't mind answering. When you say "Business System Analyst" is this similar to someone using J.D Edwards? Or something more advanced?
What are some estimated starting salaries out of university? How hard will it be to get the first job, is a MA recommended or "grad" school recommended after university of course?

lol...

[Djay230]

lol...

Name = aaaaaa = LOL

[Luckyinfil]

Name = aaaaaa = LOL

[Djay230]