Personal Finance

Consent to hard credit pull or tricked? (MBNA)

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  • Jun 14th, 2019 2:40 pm
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[OP]
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May 12, 2007
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Consent to hard credit pull or tricked? (MBNA)

Hello, would like some advice on this from anyone with experience and the time to share their ideas.

My sister has a card with MBNA (TD?) for the last two years. In March 2019, she called customer service and requested a credit limit increase so she can complete a large balance transfer. The CS rep on the phone transferred her to the credit department, which then went through the formal process of a financial update, as well as asking for consent to pull her credit report (hard pull) to see if she was eligible. She was, and she received her credit increase. Everything up to this point was fine.

In May, 2019, less than 3 months later, she received an email from MBNA saying she was "pre-approved" for MBNA's gold card. See photos attached. The idea of having a low interest card to go along with the higher interest balance transfer card made sense. The email had the title " you’re pre-approved††† for the MBNA® True Line® Gold Mastercard® credit card. The ††† terms are displayed in the photo. She clicked to proceed, which took her to the information page of the card. She then entered all of her information and submitted.

She was under the impression since she submitted her credit score less than 90 days ago, the credit team may have recommended a product based on her solid credit, and thus pre-approved her for the card. We get a few pre-approvals lately, since we have a gotten our mortgage and every pre-approval we have had (line of credit, credit increases, new cards) have never resulted in a hard credit pull.

She said she thought it was weird that the web page she was directed to was asking for information like her income and social insurance number, but she submitted it anyways once she verified the website was legitimate. However, she felt after the application that something might be wrong, so she called MBNA and asked if the pre-approval was legit. They advised the email was indeed sent by their marketing team, and that the information is requested so they can pull her credit score. She was upset because it was not clear that this would be done (legal document that one consents to is attached to the bottom of this post). She explained that she did not want to do a hard credit pull and that she wants to cancel the application. Note this call was made about 5 minutes after she went through the email link and completed the process.

The customer care rep basically tried to explain that credit pulls are necessary, and that they call these pre-approvals but nothing is actually pre-approved. In fact, it was odd because the email clearly says You're pre‑approved††† if your application is received by July 15, 2019!. She asked what does this mean then, if she does not accept the offer by July 15, since the card she was offered has the exact same terms (name, fees, interest rates, etc.) as the same named card anyone can get online. The rep could not explain what actually expires July 15, and said its likely just a marketing thing to get people to apply right away. She was very upset and said the email was framed to make her think she was already approved, and that it was not made clear to her there would be a pull. The rep advised that at this point there was no pull done, and there probably would not be. She asked kindly to cancel the application and not to proceed with a credit pull.

However, soon after the phone call, she received an email from her trans union credit monitoring which said a hard pull was done by MBNA. The pull was done only 70 days after the initial pull.

The issues is this:

The email was framed to be a pre approval, when it was not actually pre-approved. It even stated the pre-approval would not be valid after July 15, but the rep said that was not true, and based on that anyone can get the card at the same terms and conditions, with everyone needed a hard credit pull, and thus voiding the actual term of pre-approval.

The terms do not clearly state that a credit report will be pulled. Rather, in their privacy policy it states that We collect, protect, use, share, disclose, retain and process Personal Information for the following general purposes:

to consider initiating and to initiate, open, monitor, maintain, service, process, analyze, audit and
collect any Account you may have with us, including disclosing or exchanging Personal Information
with credit reporting agencies, credit bureaus, other financial institutions, service providers,
affiliates, agents, other third parties, and/or any other person, corporation, firm or enterprise with
whom you have or propose to have a relationship and to use other third party databases (including
registries and licensing authorities) or references provided by you to obtain or verify information
about your financial circumstances, your background or to identify you; to develop our relationship
with you; to offer products and services; to collect a debt; and to analyze and manage our business

b) including evaluating the needs, wants, and satisfaction levels of our customers;
to administer services, evaluate your credit eligibility, and monitor (i) your purchases, (ii) your
Account balances, (iii) your fees, (iv) your payment history, (v) parties to transactions, (vi) your
payments and (vii) your credit card usage, each for the purposes set out in this MBNA Privacy Policy

(rest of terms : https://apply.mbna.ca/applicationform/v ... cale=en_CA)

Because she feels like she was tricked into completing a new application under the guise of a pre approval, she is asking Trans Union and MBNA to remove the inquiry.

What are your thoughts? Does she have a case here?

Thank you,

Edit here is image

Image: https://ibb.co/D8dkX89
Last edited by series1000 on Jun 12th, 2019 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
22 replies
Deal Addict
Sep 24, 2018
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Sorry to say, but SOME institutions use the inquiry as a way to say "this person applied recently or weve given them credit" its in their terms of service

Honestly, just have her call TU in a month and say HEY this isnt mine and theyll delete it, she has the card, and theyll remove the inquiry :) only takes two weeks
Deal Addict
Jan 30, 2012
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TORONTO
series1000 wrote:
Jun 12th, 2019 6:35 pm
The terms do not clearly state that a credit report will be pulled.
Every credit card in the agreement says that you consent to the issuer checking your credit (hard, soft, or otherwise) whenever they feel like it. Most issuers check your credit on an ongoing basis while you have the card.
series1000 wrote:
Jun 12th, 2019 6:35 pm
Does she have a case here?
No.

You have no recourse.

Even with a pre-approved card, the issuer will check your credit (and continue to check it regularly).
[OP]
Deal Addict
May 12, 2007
1156 posts
340 upvotes
M8Rxmjsik wrote:
Jun 12th, 2019 8:38 pm

Every credit card in the agreement says that you consent to the issuer checking your credit (hard, soft, or otherwise) whenever they feel like it. Most issuers check your credit on an ongoing basis while you have the card.



No.

You have no recourse.

Even with a pre-approved card, the issuer will check your credit (and continue to check it regularly).
These on going credit checks are not hard pulls. We both have had numerous credit increases and pre approvals from 4 different institutions over the last 7 years and not one has ever showed up (other than the original MBNA request for credit increase which the pull was made clear at the time) as a hard pull until now. We have 7 years of credit history to prove. What are your thoughts on that ?

Edit: by hard pull I mean an inquiry that shows up to all inquires and effects credit score when there are many and lasts about 7 years on file
Deal Addict
Jan 30, 2012
1454 posts
712 upvotes
TORONTO
series1000 wrote:
Jun 12th, 2019 8:54 pm
What are your thoughts on that ?
In the credit card agreement you authorize the issuer to check your credit (hard, soft or otherwise) whenever they feel like it.

And since you authorized them to do so, if the issuer decides to check your credit (hard, soft or otherwise) you have no recourse.

Of course, you could express your displeasure by closing your account and taking your business elsewhere, but other banks will have a similar clause.
Sr. Member
May 16, 2017
600 posts
599 upvotes
series1000 wrote:
Jun 12th, 2019 8:54 pm
These on going credit checks are not hard pulls. ...
It doesn't say that .. it says to "initiate, open, monitor, maintain, service, process, analyze, audit and collect ". The words simply state "disclosing or exchanging Personal Information with credit reporting agencies, credit bureaus", which means ANY exchange of information, including inquiries is permitted.
[OP]
Deal Addict
May 12, 2007
1156 posts
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M8Rxmjsik wrote:
Jun 12th, 2019 9:05 pm
In the credit card agreement you authorize the issuer to check your credit (hard, soft or otherwise) whenever they feel like it.

And since you authorized them to do so, if the issuer decides to check your credit (hard, soft or otherwise) you have no recourse.

Of course, you could express your displeasure by closing your account and taking your business elsewhere, but other banks will have a similar clause.
robsaw wrote:
Jun 12th, 2019 11:08 pm
It doesn't say that .. it says to "initiate, open, monitor, maintain, service, process, analyze, audit and collect ". The words simply state "disclosing or exchanging Personal Information with credit reporting agencies, credit bureaus", which means ANY exchange of information, including inquiries is permitted.
Do you have a few inquiries (hard pulls) that have shown up on your credit report unexpectedly ?
[OP]
Deal Addict
May 12, 2007
1156 posts
340 upvotes
Just as we suspected, Trans Union sided with our reasoning and removed the inquiry.

Re: Results of our Investigation

This communication is written in response to your correspondence and/or documents received disputing the accuracy of certain information in your credit file.

We have investigated your concern(s) and based on these findings have confirmed the information you have provided and have updated your credit file to reflect this information.
Deal Addict
Sep 24, 2018
1527 posts
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series1000 wrote:
Jun 13th, 2019 8:03 am
Just as we suspected, Trans Union sided with our reasoning and removed the inquiry.

Re: Results of our Investigation

This communication is written in response to your correspondence and/or documents received disputing the accuracy of certain information in your credit file.

We have investigated your concern(s) and based on these findings have confirmed the information you have provided and have updated your credit file to reflect this information.
Exactly what I said to do :) and results

TU is good about removing them, MBNA doesnt seem to care, other dont seem to do much to support them after 6 months
[OP]
Deal Addict
May 12, 2007
1156 posts
340 upvotes
Well.. If you read the entire post you'd know that we already disputed it and cancelled the application right after it was made... So there was no card to keep you suggested. But maybe your idea would have worked anywyas although a little dishonest towards the credit bureau lol. Anyways I appreciate the time you took to reply thank you
Sr. Member
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Jan 15, 2017
569 posts
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Techiedude wrote:
Jun 12th, 2019 7:47 pm
Honestly, just have her call TU in a month and say HEY this isnt mine and theyll delete it, she has the card, and theyll remove the inquiry :) only takes two weeks
By that I assume you mean she didn't submit the application?

I had a couple of credit cards (one was MBNA MC) fraudulently applied for and issued in my name last year. When I told TU about them, they investigated and refused to remove the entries. I put an alert on my file after that.
Sr. Member
Nov 8, 2017
923 posts
447 upvotes
Any time you want $ that's not yours, the creditor will check your credit.

Kinda skeezy tho with "pre-approval". In email
Sr. Member
May 16, 2017
600 posts
599 upvotes
series1000 wrote:
Jun 13th, 2019 1:08 am
Do you have a few inquiries (hard pulls) that have shown up on your credit report unexpectedly ?
No, but your case would be in the "expected" category.
Sr. Member
May 16, 2017
600 posts
599 upvotes
User455957 wrote:
Jun 13th, 2019 10:33 am
Any time you want $ that's not yours, the creditor will check your credit.

Kinda skeezy tho with "pre-approval". In email
There is really no such thing as a non-conditional pre-approval. In some cases, I've had on-line offers for an LoC with no resultant hard pull, but there was wording that implied so long as a soft-pull showed no changes in the state of my credit between the time of offer and my acceptance of offer that would be the case.

The real lesson here is you want more credit, expect a real credit check (hard pull) unless there is a clear statement to the contrary.
[OP]
Deal Addict
May 12, 2007
1156 posts
340 upvotes
robsaw wrote:
Jun 13th, 2019 10:42 am

There is really no such thing as a non-conditional pre-approval. In some cases, I've had on-line offers for an LoC with no resultant hard pull, but there was wording that implied so long as a soft-pull showed no changes in the state of my credit between the time of offer and my acceptance of offer that would be the case.

The real lesson here is you want more credit, expect a real credit check (hard pull) unless there is a clear statement to the contrary.
This situation was contrary to the intuition gained from 20 years of experience, and was contrary to that experience so it warranted the conversation. I'm still not convinced that random hard pulls happen as often as they're made to be as stated in some of the other posts in this thread, however I do not rule them out completely as anything is possible with thesr companies. That being said based on my experience so far with this case along with the fact that Trans Union sided with the claim means that the practice here engaged by MBNA was, at the least, uncommon and resulted in something unanticipated, thus I think the lesson here is if something doesn't seem right and goes against your intuition you should challenge it.
Last edited by series1000 on Jun 13th, 2019 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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