[Other] Contest Discussion(s)

hoob has talent, no doubt.
But a newbie would not understand a word of that.

...voting often has less to do with the product being voted on as it does on the participant's ability to actively secure votes...

ronin1701 wrote: ↑

Jan 23rd, 2013 8:32 pm

I don't disagree. I'm hoping someone else does take it on (although I was also hoping to just avoid the subject altogether).

Where's Hoob? I can see that he's online right now.

Sorry, was doing my dailies...

What is a Voting Contest, and should I enter them?

Voting contests are a competition of popularity, where your submission must be endorsed by others as part of the contest entry. The popularity of your submission (which may involve a picture, story or other creative effort, or nothing at all of note) impacts your chances of winning. Depending on the contest rules:

* The most popular entry/entries win
* The more popular your submission, the more "chances" you get in the contest
* The contest promoters select from the most popular submissions as part of a more complex process

As in any popularity situation, your submission is NOT evaluated purely on its merits (quality of submission) but is subject to how well you are able to promote your submission. For example, to improve the popularity of your submission, you can promote it in your group of friends on Social Media (Note: promoting submissions on RFD is not permitted.)

The issue with Voting contests is that you are likely competing against other contesters who are skilled, dedicated, and highly experienced in promoting their contest submissions. So despite your best effort, your submission to a Voting contest will face voracious competition. So ask yourself, given how the contest is run, how likely is it that you can do better than a veteran Voting contester with thousands of friends and other sources of promotion?

In addition, while most contest promoters and participants are honest and have integrity, the tactics used for Voting contests by their nature cause a lot of debate and disagreement in the contesting community. There is evidence of such activities as "vote buying" and "vote rigging", rules changed at the last minute that dramatically affect the Voting outcome, and similar contentious issues.

So while Voting contests can be fun and are not impossible to win, they are completely different than random contests, and you must be prepared to participate with this in mind.

ha, I saw the part you edited out :P

Anyways, that's really good.

Perhaps you can say:

"The contest promoters select from the most popular submissions as part of a more complex process ...." "In some voting contests a judging process may also be incorporated, either before or after the voting stage. The judging process helps ensure that the submission(s) selected meet a minimum quality standard, and help to level the playing field somewhat, by making it less of a pure popularity contest.".

Now we need to decide on a good place to put it?

Perhaps:

12. What are my odds of winning?
13. What is a Voting Contest, and should I enter them? <== INSERT?
14. When/how often are the prize winners decided?

Fantastic work hoob!

And another one, in the same vein...

What is a Judging Contest, and should I enter them?

Judging contests are a competition of merit, where your submission is compared to other submissions using evaluation criteria defined by the contest promoter. Submissions to these contests usually include an aspect of creative effort, such as a photo, personal story or essay, or possibly complex requirements such as video diaries or travelogues. The quality and creativity of your submission, along with its relevance the the contest's requirements, impacts your chances of winning.

Depending on the contest rules, a Judging contest may take various forms and include aspects of Voting:

* All contest submissions are judged, and
- the top entry/entries win the prize(s), or
- the top entries are then voted to determine the winner(s)
- the winner(s) are drawn random from the top entries
* All contest submissions are voted, and the top entries are then judged to find the winner(s)
* After judging and/or voting, numerous "semi-finalists" are selected for a further, possibly different, contest submission requirement

For contests that are judged properly and impartially, and ignoring any issues related to the voting aspects of judged contests, a genuine submission can legitimately win on effort and merit. You can take the time to be creative or find a clever way to impress the judges, and you can win.

The issue with Judging contests is that it is difficult to know for sure if the judging and selection criteria is impartial, and if it is carried out truly as described in the contest rules, or if the judging process is described at all. In addition, like all judging situations, your submission is reviewed subjectively based on the whims of an unknown person or group. So ask yourself, is it worth it spending the time and effort needed to enter the contest and stand out, without knowing how the judging will take place and if it will be done with integrity?

And again, while most contest promoters and participants are honest and have integrity, there have been cases of very biased judging such as the winner being a family member of the judge or an employee of the contest promoter, and there have been cases where some submissions include plagiarism, the judging criteria change after you have submitted your entry, and similar contentious issues.

As a positive, keep in mind that a contest with very specific or complex submission and judging requirements means far fewer people are likely to enter, so your chances of winning are a lot better. Some judging contests have had as few as a dozen entries that meet the requirements. So they can be fun and are a great opportunity to craft a great submission, but they usually require significantly more effort and you can never guess if the judge(s) will look at your entry the way you hope and expect. Some people relish this type of contest, while others prefer purely random draws.

That's really good! (so where the heck were you when the FAQ was still in draft???? :razz ?

Is there some way to combine the two?

ishfish wrote: ↑

Jan 23rd, 2013 8:56 pm

hoob has talent, no doubt.
But a newbie would not understand a word of that.

Yes, it was meant to be opaquely tongue in cheek. :embarassed:

ronin1701 wrote: ↑

Jan 23rd, 2013 10:56 pm

That's really good! (so where the heck were you when the FAQ was still in draft???? :razz ?

Is there some way to combine the two?

As I said earlier today "what, wait, there was a FAQ being written, how did I miss that!". Combining the two would be a tl;dr entry I think though.

hoob wrote: ↑

Jan 23rd, 2013 10:59 pm

As I said earlier today "what, wait, there was a FAQ being written, how did I miss that!". Combining the two would be a tl;dr entry I think though.

Buddy, it's not like we were hiding it, lol.

It could be tl/dr but then again there might be a bit too much detail in it to begin with? Don't get me wrong - it's really good, but when I wrote the FAQ avoiding bloat was the hardest part.

To put it another way, people were already complaining that the parts I wrote are too long, and what you've just written drwarfs anything I put in there.

Let me have a think about this.

ronin1701 wrote: ↑

Jan 23rd, 2013 11:03 pm

Buddy, it's not like we were hiding it, lol.

It could be tl/dr but then again there might be a bit too much detail in it to begin with? Don't get me wrong - it's really good, but when I wrote the FAQ avoiding bloat was the hardest part.

Let me have a think about this.

Dunno... I've been arse deep in home renovations for a few weeks so must've missed it completely. Feel free to slice and dice -- the bane of my professional and personal writing is that out of a dominating desire to avoid imprecision I am much too verbose.

hoob wrote: ↑

Jan 23rd, 2013 11:06 pm

Dunno... I've been arse deep in home renovations for a few weeks so must've missed it completely. Feel free to slice and dice -- the bane of my professional and personal writing is that out of a dominating desire to avoid imprecision I am much too verbose.

I'm like that too, so I know where you're coming from. Some of my memos have become the stuff of legend, lol.

Hoob - thoughts?

What are Voting and Judging contests, and should I enter them?

Voting contests depend entirely on an entrant's ability to gain support from the pool of eligible voters. In an ideal situation, the highest quality submission will also be the one that garners the most votes, but that's not always the case. In practice most vote competitions come down to a simple popularity contest, and the winners are those who are best able to promote their contest entry and marshal the voting power of their network of contacts. Inexperienced entrants and those with small networks are at a decided disadvantage when competing against veteran entrants who are skilled, dedicated, and highly experienced in promoting their contest entries.

Furthermore, while the majority of voting contest participants are honest, there is much controversy over the alleged tactics used by small numbers of vote contesters and suspicions abound of such activities as vote buying, vote trading, fake voters, co-operative voting groups, and votes from ineligible voters.

As noted elsewhere in this FAQ, vote solicitation is prohibited by RFD Forum rules.

Judged contests are competitions where the winners are selected based on the merit of their contest submissions, by a (panel of) judge(s) appointed by the contest's promoter. Each submission is evaluated using criteria defined by the promoter, and details of these should be clearly stated in the rules. The evaluation criteria are typically weighted between the quality and creativity of the submission, and the submission's relevance to the promotion's theme. Judged contest entries usually require the submission of a creative work, such as photos, stories or essays, or possibly complex requirements such as video diaries or travelogues.

For those contests that are judged competently and impartially, a genuine submission can legitimately win on its merits by impressing the judge(s) with its quality, creativity, and adherence to theme. The issue is that it's difficult to be certain if the judging process is carried out competently, impartially and as described in the contest rules (assuming the criteria are described at all).

The advantage to judged contests is that those with high barriers to entry such as very specific or complex submission and judging requirements will have far fewer entries to compete against, increasing the likelihood that your entry will stand out. However, because the process is non-random, an element of bias may be introduced by the judges whether deliberately or subconsciously. Furthermore, while most contest promoters and entrants are honest, there have been cases of biased judging with winners being friends / family members / employees of the judges and/or promoters. In some cases entries have been plagiarised, and in others the judging criteria have been changed post-submission.

Finally, some contests may combine both judging and voting. In some contests judges will narrow down the submissions to a small pool of finalist entries which are then voted-upon, while in others the public vote will determine the pool of finalist entries from which the judges select the winner.

Either way, voting and judging contests require a major commitment of both time and effort, and you need to decide for yourself if it's worth putting in that time and effort without knowing for sure that a level playing field exists.

ronin1701 wrote: ↑

Jan 24th, 2013 12:34 am

Hoob - thoughts?

What are Voting and Judging contests, and should I enter them?

Sounds good, I think it covers it quite neutrally.

Thanks Hoob and Ronin, great job, and if anyone has any problems with it too bad. I don't see anyone else writing such a helpful FAQ.

It is a great piece of work and you both should be commended. Thank you!

hoob wrote: ↑

Jan 24th, 2013 7:50 am

Sounds good, I think it covers it quite neutrally.

Thanks - I tried to keep as much of your original content as possible. My main objective was to edit it down in length (it's probably ~ 1/2 the length of what I started with) and to integrate the two parts (judging and voting) into one.

If you (and others - thanks window) are happy with it, I can see about integrating it into the FAQ.

Question: where would you insert it? My initial thoughts are either at #2 or at #13 in the Table of Contents.

ronin1701 wrote: ↑

Jan 24th, 2013 8:22 am

Thanks - I tried to keep as much of your original content as possible. My main objective was to edit it down in length (it's probably ~ 1/2 the length of what I started with) and to integrate the two parts (judging and voting) into one.

If you (and others - thanks window) are happy with it, I can see about integrating it into the FAQ.

Question: where would you insert it? My initial thoughts are either at #2 or at #13 in the Table of Contents.

Can you insert it after "What is a Rafflecopter?" or I'd say after #2 like you suggested.