hey, at least it looks good on paper and it seems like they are trying. who would think ppl would actually take time to investigate?
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Jul 15th, 2005 01:25 PM #1
Corruption threatens to leave Iraq with a 'ghost army'
summary for the reading challenged: commanders are claiming having 2000 soldiers while they have 300, and they are pocketing the salary of the remaining!
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By Patrick Cockburn in Baghdad
Published: 15 July 2005
A tidal wave of corruption may ensure the Iraqi army and police will be too few and too poorly armed to replace American and British forces fighting anti-government insurgents. That could frustrate plans in Washington and London to reduce their forces in Iraq.
The Iraqi armed forces are full of "ghost battalions" in which officers pocket the pay of soldiers who never existed or have gone home. "I know of at least one unit which was meant to be 2,200 but the real figure was only 300 men," said a veteran Iraqi politician and member of parliament, Mahmoud Othman. "The US talks about 150,000 Iraqis in the security forces but I doubt if there are more than 40,000."
The army and police are poorly armed despite heavy expenditure. "The interim government spent $5.2bn (£2.6bn) on the ministry of defence and ministry of the interior during six months but there is little to show for it," said a senior Iraqi official who did not want his name published.
He cited the case of more than $300m spent on buying 24 military helicopters and other equipment from Poland. When Iraqi experts examined the helicopters they found them to be 28 years old - and their manufacturer recommended that they be scrapped after 25 years. Iraq is now trying to get its money back.
The corruption started under the US-run Coalition Provisional Authority in 2003 when Iraqis, often with little experience, were appointed to senior positions in ministries. The Iraqis did not act alone. "The Americans were the partners of the Iraqis in all this corruption," says Dr Othman. The results of the failure to buy effective arms are visible at every Iraqi police or army checkpoint. The weapons on display are often ageing Kalashnikovs. The supposedly elite police commandos drive about in elderly pick-ups with no armour. The ministry of the interior was recently unable to provide a presidential guard with 50 pistols.
As a result of the lack of weapons, the Iraqi police and army are often less well-armed than the insurgents.
Iraqi soldiers have often turned out to be pathetically vulnerable to guerrilla attacks. "During the past two years, people could make money in Iraq on a scale that would astonish a Colombian drug lord," said an Iraqi politician who, like many, wanted to remain anonymous. "To protect the amounts of money they made, these people will kill very easily." Meanwhile, the new Defence Minister, Saadoun al-Dulaimi, complains he inherited so little infrastructure that he has to bring in tea bags to his office so he can offer tea to visitors.
The Iraqi government hoped it would be able to obtain weapons free from the US but that has turned out to be a frustrating process. An official said: "The Americans don't trust our soldiers or policemen. They say the arms might fall into the hands of insurgents. But I tell them the insurgents already have these kind of weapons so why should they want some more?"
* US forces said yesterday they had captured an al-Qa'ida agent they believe is linked to the kidnapping and murder of Egypt's envoy to Iraq. They said they captured Khamis Farhan Khalaf Abd al Fahdawi, also known as Abu Seba, on 9 July in Ramadi.
A tidal wave of corruption may ensure the Iraqi army and police will be too few and too poorly armed to replace American and British forces fighting anti-government insurgents. That could frustrate plans in Washington and London to reduce their forces in Iraq.
The Iraqi armed forces are full of "ghost battalions" in which officers pocket the pay of soldiers who never existed or have gone home. "I know of at least one unit which was meant to be 2,200 but the real figure was only 300 men," said a veteran Iraqi politician and member of parliament, Mahmoud Othman. "The US talks about 150,000 Iraqis in the security forces but I doubt if there are more than 40,000."
The army and police are poorly armed despite heavy expenditure. "The interim government spent $5.2bn (£2.6bn) on the ministry of defence and ministry of the interior during six months but there is little to show for it," said a senior Iraqi official who did not want his name published.
He cited the case of more than $300m spent on buying 24 military helicopters and other equipment from Poland. When Iraqi experts examined the helicopters they found them to be 28 years old - and their manufacturer recommended that they be scrapped after 25 years. Iraq is now trying to get its money back.
The corruption started under the US-run Coalition Provisional Authority in 2003 when Iraqis, often with little experience, were appointed to senior positions in ministries. The Iraqis did not act alone. "The Americans were the partners of the Iraqis in all this corruption," says Dr Othman. The results of the failure to buy effective arms are visible at every Iraqi police or army checkpoint. The weapons on display are often ageing Kalashnikovs. The supposedly elite police commandos drive about in elderly pick-ups with no armour. The ministry of the interior was recently unable to provide a presidential guard with 50 pistols.
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Jul 15th, 2005 01:29 PM #2_______________
God save us from organized religion.
Back for a limited engagement.
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Jul 15th, 2005 01:31 PM #3
you might also want to edit your original post, the text is duplicated.
_______________
God save us from organized religion.
Back for a limited engagement.
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Jul 15th, 2005 01:34 PM #4Deal Addict




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This is the 'testimony' from one person. I wouldn't doubt that their soldiers are underequipped at this point, but I'm skeptic that there are 80,000 'ghost' troops.
It takes time to outfit an army that large, and noone should expect that 120,000 troops are driving around in state of the art machinery. It might be worth noting that the 'bum rush' helicopters from poland are still better than those damn sea kings of ours.
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Jul 15th, 2005 01:55 PM #5
Originally Posted by Marc7
Are you sure this part wasn't about the Canadian Army?
Actually, now that I read it in a little more detail, you could almost replace the word "Iraq" with "Canada", and still have a fairly accurate article.
The army and police are poorly armed despite heavy expenditure. "The Liberal government spent $5.2bn (£2.6bn) on the ministry of defence and ministry of the interior during six months but there is little to show for it," said a senior Canadian official who did not want his name published.He cited the case of more than $300m spent on buying Subs and other equipment from England.The corruption started under the Groupaction-run Coalition Provisional Authority in 2003 when political hacks, often with little experience, were appointed to senior positions in ministries.The ministry of the interior was recently unable to provide a presidential guard with 50 legally registered pistols.As a result of the lack of weapons, the Canadian police and army are often less well-armed than criminals and seperatists.Last edited by i6s1; Jul 15th, 2005 at 02:25 PM.
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Jul 15th, 2005 01:58 PM #6
Link to the original:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...p?story=652547
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Jul 15th, 2005 02:46 PM #7
very funny, so sad but so true! except the ghost soldiers in canada, we only have ghost electors!
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Jul 15th, 2005 02:51 PM #8Oh PLEEEASE, as if 2 years isn't long enough to train a decent security force. Boot camp is 6-9 months.
Originally Posted by devious9191
No one is talking about "state of the art machinery", they just want vehicles that are *not* yet scheduled to be scrap.
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Jul 15th, 2005 02:54 PM #9Actually, it's two months.
Originally Posted by grant
They've got Quad-cab Dodge Rams that can outrun the Hummers. I can't find any clear pics of them, but Iraqi police have them. Maybe not every unit, but they do have them.
Originally Posted by grant
from here.One evening, I watched as preparations began on the street outside City Hall. A group of about 50 Iraqis strapped on their body armor, inserted bullet clips into their AK-47's and listened to heavy metal on the stereos of their American-supplied Dodge pickups, which now bore coats of camouflage paint and machine guns on their flatbeds.Last edited by i6s1; Jul 15th, 2005 at 03:06 PM.
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Jul 15th, 2005 02:59 PM #10Deal Addict




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2 years to train 120,000 troops? Give me a break. It takes 6-9 months to train 10,000 maybe, but 120,000 is an entirely different ball game.
Originally Posted by grant
And I wasn't referring to training, from what I have read, with the joint operations between US and Iraqi troops, the Iraqi's certainly seem to be holding their own. I'm talking about equipping that many troops. How long does it take to purchase weapons and vehicles for 100,000 people?
Canada has less defense staff (soldiers + admin) than this, and we can't equip our soldiers. Canada doesn't even have the ability to fully equip the small contingents of personel that it sends overseas. Our troops also drive glorified jeeps without any real armour, and we only need enough vehicles for a couple of thousand soldiers.
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