Entrepreneurship & Small Business

Costco - Elavon Merchant Services / POS Services

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 24th, 2014 11:43 am
Member
Apr 6, 2010
493 posts
54 upvotes
Toronto
gamechanger wrote:
Aug 14th, 2014 10:46 am
So, if they are not charging for shipping, and not charging for the replacement of a terminal that was purchased outright (and the sales rep made most of the profit), how are they paying for these hard costs? They are either losing money, or have hidden fees that are covering these costs...

As for "no new technology", take a look at the Ingenico line. 10 years ago, their countertop terminal was the elite 510 with the en-crypt 150 pin pad. Obsolete. Then, they moved to the i5300. Obsolete. Once IP became available, the i5310. Obsolete. From there, the i5100 dual mode. No longer in production, and servicing of these units is being phased out. Now, the latest and greatest is the Ingenico Telium line. New features / technology include an integrated contactless solution (tap and go) Awesome terminals...for right now. Give it a few years, and they too will be obsolete. Same can be said about wireless, both Bluetooth and GPRS. Once again, how is a private processing company (ISO / MSP) supposed to pay for this new hardware and upgrade the client for free?
Hidden fees will cost them a lot more in business losses than the terminal replacement - merchants are not stupid or disinterested. And when I mention decent providers, there are no hidden fees there.

The Ingenico line? Actually, the Ingenico 5100 was in use for many years, and it still is. Sometimes with the 3500 pinpad. Providers do not offer customer support for them anymore, but will only replace them if they become defective - which they are supposed to do anyway. Same for some providers using the Hypercom line.

For the obsolete thing: you may not be aware, but most terminals in use sold over the last 10 years came with a slot for chip reading. So no, it wasn't the terminal. Yes, the internet prompted an ADDITIONAL feature, but it was not indispensible, in fact a large majority of terminals out there are still using dial up. So no issue there. Contactless? Not a big deal, it is not a requirement either, and very few merchants actually use it.
Wireless (that and GPRS are the same) and bluetooth are not a requirement either, in fact again, the large majority of merchants do not use it.
So the only VITAL change in a terminal was - finally - the mandatory chip reader. But still, there are merchants today that do not have that capability yet and they are quite happy about it. Go to some convenience stores or dry cleaners and you will see. The old terminals work just fine. And btw, I've seen Moneris terminals that are about 15 years old or so, they still work.

Bottom line, all those goodies you described are not ESSENTIAL for a very, very large majority of merchants. Nothing obsolete there.

As for the terminal costs, providers and banks make a lot more money from your processing than they do from the terminal. Think about averages, not the merchants processing a couple of grand a month.
Cristian.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 16, 2009
1453 posts
320 upvotes
Cristian_01 wrote:
Aug 15th, 2014 11:44 pm
Hidden fees will cost them a lot more in business losses than the terminal replacement - merchants are not stupid or disinterested. And when I mention decent providers, there are no hidden fees there.

The Ingenico line? Actually, the Ingenico 5100 was in use for many years, and it still is. Sometimes with the 3500 pinpad. Providers do not offer customer support for them anymore, but will only replace them if they become defective - which they are supposed to do anyway. Same for some providers using the Hypercom line.

For the obsolete thing: you may not be aware, but most terminals in use sold over the last 10 years came with a slot for chip reading. So no, it wasn't the terminal. Yes, the internet prompted an ADDITIONAL feature, but it was not indispensible, in fact a large majority of terminals out there are still using dial up. So no issue there. Contactless? Not a big deal, it is not a requirement either, and very few merchants actually use it.
Wireless (that and GPRS are the same) and bluetooth are not a requirement either, in fact again, the large majority of merchants do not use it.
So the only VITAL change in a terminal was - finally - the mandatory chip reader. But still, there are merchants today that do not have that capability yet and they are quite happy about it. Go to some convenience stores or dry cleaners and you will see. The old terminals work just fine. And btw, I've seen Moneris terminals that are about 15 years old or so, they still work.

Bottom line, all those goodies you described are not ESSENTIAL for a very, very large majority of merchants. Nothing obsolete there.

As for the terminal costs, providers and banks make a lot more money from your processing than they do from the terminal. Think about averages, not the merchants processing a couple of grand a month.
Cristian.
I do wish the Tap n Go was more prevalent as I prefer this method over swipe/signature & chip n' pin. I think the reason you don't see it is simple....it doesn't generate additional revenue for the processors. As far as I know ISO's who resell with Elavon, First Data, and Global Payments don't even have the Tap n Go on offer.
Member
Apr 6, 2010
493 posts
54 upvotes
Toronto
smokescreen15 wrote:
Aug 16th, 2014 12:39 pm
I do wish the Tap n Go was more prevalent as I prefer this method over swipe/signature & chip n' pin. I think the reason you don't see it is simple....it doesn't generate additional revenue for the processors. As far as I know ISO's who resell with Elavon, First Data, and Global Payments don't even have the Tap n Go on offer.
It actually generates the same revenues (if not more) - it's a credit card use.
However there are limits to what you can spend on the tap and go, I think gas stations accept up to $100 and the rest of the merchants $50. High security risks. Aside from that, there are severe security risks - that's why they placed limits.
Cristian.
Member
Feb 18, 2014
224 posts
40 upvotes
Cristian_01 wrote:
Aug 15th, 2014 11:44 pm
Hidden fees will cost them a lot more in business losses than the terminal replacement - merchants are not stupid or disinterested. And when I mention decent providers, there are no hidden fees there.

The Ingenico line? Actually, the Ingenico 5100 was in use for many years, and it still is. Sometimes with the 3500 pinpad. Providers do not offer customer support for them anymore, but will only replace them if they become defective - which they are supposed to do anyway. Same for some providers using the Hypercom line.

For the obsolete thing: you may not be aware, but most terminals in use sold over the last 10 years came with a slot for chip reading. So no, it wasn't the terminal. Yes, the internet prompted an ADDITIONAL feature, but it was not indispensible, in fact a large majority of terminals out there are still using dial up. So no issue there. Contactless? Not a big deal, it is not a requirement either, and very few merchants actually use it.
Wireless (that and GPRS are the same) and bluetooth are not a requirement either, in fact again, the large majority of merchants do not use it.
So the only VITAL change in a terminal was - finally - the mandatory chip reader. But still, there are merchants today that do not have that capability yet and they are quite happy about it. Go to some convenience stores or dry cleaners and you will see. The old terminals work just fine. And btw, I've seen Moneris terminals that are about 15 years old or so, they still work.

Bottom line, all those goodies you described are not ESSENTIAL for a very, very large majority of merchants. Nothing obsolete there.

As for the terminal costs, providers and banks make a lot more money from your processing than they do from the terminal. Think about averages, not the merchants processing a couple of grand a month.
Cristian.
Nobody said stupid or disinterested...The truth is that the majority of business owners, have no idea about these fees, as it is too convoluted, and they focus on their business. Yes, the i3050 pinpad and the 5100 are still around, but being phased out. Again, if you are telling me that a private provider, that sold a terminal, and gave commissions to the selling rep, is now upgrading to a new terminal at no cost...well, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

The slot for chip has been around for over 10 years. This is because they are manufactured the same for all countries, including the European ones that have been using this type of technology for years. That said, NONE of those terminals were compatible with EMV in Canada, and they could NOT be converted to be EMV capable.

As for technology, and whether it's vital or not, yes, the EMV is the only MANDATORY change that has come about, however, it does not take away the validity of my previous points. A busy fast food restaurant, for example, can obviously use a dial up terminal, but they become far more efficient if they have IP capability. Even more so, if they have tap and go. If they've purchased / leased a terminal, they now have to purchase another one! Not vital? It is when the restaurant across the street has an IP, tap and go solution, and is servicing it's customers quicker!

Anyway, for business owners, this is all food for thought.
Newbie
Feb 3, 2013
46 posts
9 upvotes
Toronto
Cristian_01 wrote:
Aug 15th, 2014 11:44 pm
Hidden fees will cost them a lot more in business losses than the terminal replacement - merchants are not stupid or disinterested. And when I mention decent providers, there are no hidden fees there.

The Ingenico line? Actually, the Ingenico 5100 was in use for many years, and it still is. Sometimes with the 3500 pinpad. Providers do not offer customer support for them anymore, but will only replace them if they become defective - which they are supposed to do anyway. Same for some providers using the Hypercom line.

For the obsolete thing: you may not be aware, but most terminals in use sold over the last 10 years came with a slot for chip reading. So no, it wasn't the terminal. Yes, the internet prompted an ADDITIONAL feature, but it was not indispensible, in fact a large majority of terminals out there are still using dial up. So no issue there. Contactless? Not a big deal, it is not a requirement either, and very few merchants actually use it.
Wireless (that and GPRS are the same) and bluetooth are not a requirement either, in fact again, the large majority of merchants do not use it.
So the only VITAL change in a terminal was - finally - the mandatory chip reader. But still, there are merchants today that do not have that capability yet and they are quite happy about it. Go to some convenience stores or dry cleaners and you will see. The old terminals work just fine. And btw, I've seen Moneris terminals that are about 15 years old or so, they still work.

Bottom line, all those goodies you described are not ESSENTIAL for a very, very large majority of merchants. Nothing obsolete there.

As for the terminal costs, providers and banks make a lot more money from your processing than they do from the terminal. Think about averages, not the merchants processing a couple of grand a month.
Cristian.
Like a typical salesman you seem to be completely clueless about technology. Up until recently, a 1024 bit RSA key length was considered strong enough for every day encryption. However, as computers have gotten stronger, this is no longer considered the case. The whole industry is moving to 2048 keys and guess what, 5100 can't support 2048 keys, hence obsolete.

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