Investing

Couch potato investing for the last 12 years - tracking my progress

  • Last Updated:
  • Jun 7th, 2018 7:36 pm
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Newbie
Jan 23, 2017
62 posts
65 upvotes
asa1973 wrote:
Aug 24th, 2017 3:15 pm
If you'll transfer them in kind, it will be not taxable, no?
P.s. you can use MAW105 to avoid distribution and paying taxes on them, IF capital gains will be UNtriggered by transfer to RESP, you'll pay no taxes.
So in the hypothetical situation where I invest $5000 now and then in 4 months/Jan 2018 the value is $5100, I would transfer the $5100 value of ETFs in-kind into the RESP and only $5000 would be eligible for the applicable grants.

I'm afraid I don't know what MAW105 is, could I trouble you for a brief explanation or link for further reading?
Deal Addict
Jan 20, 2016
1676 posts
682 upvotes
Houston, TX
imclumzy wrote:
Aug 24th, 2017 3:30 pm
So in the hypothetical situation where I invest $5000 now and then in 4 months/Jan 2018 the value is $5100, I would transfer the $5100 value of ETFs in-kind into the RESP and only $5000 would be eligible for the applicable grants.

I'm afraid I don't know what MAW105 is, could I trouble you for a brief explanation or link for further reading?
I'm not a big expert in RESP rules, so I could not say about this more detailed.

MAW105 is a "balanced" fund like MAW104 but optimized for non-reg accounts
http://www.mawer.com/our-funds/fund-pro ... nced-fund/

MER is 0.93% , not the lowest one but OK for all-in-one solution
Make the Trudeau drama teacher again!
Jr. Member
Mar 29, 2015
126 posts
25 upvotes
Westmount, QC
Ahzuz wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2017 7:05 pm
Hello folks,

I invested following the CCP strategy, i went 25% VCN, 50% XAW and 25% ZAG, this is for a TFSA and i'm in my low 30s.
It's been around 6 months and my P&L is negative all across the board since almost the beginning. I bought at mkt price at the time.

Should I change my strategy ? Invest in other ETFs ?
You must of invested around the same time as me . Seems like we got in when things were extended to the upside , and now they're all dropping alot as of late. I actually made a bit of money with XAW and got out about 2 weeks ago as the market seemed worrisome to me and just wanted to lock in profits and possibly get back in later. VCN has not been doing well at all and for some reason I put a good chunk in there. Regretting it but Im holding on and collecting dividends for now while it hopefully recovers.
Member
Feb 5, 2017
273 posts
168 upvotes
seriously, you can't do that, get in and out of VCN/XAW a few times per year.
These are indexes and if you buy them, you need to stay invested for at least 10 years.
If your horizon of investing is less than that, I do not think that the CCP is the model to follow.
You have to understand that your porfolio might and will one day lose at least 25% of its value. If you can't live with that, do not invest in stocks at all !
Member
Feb 5, 2017
273 posts
168 upvotes
Just to give you an example, my XAW portion of my portfolio lost 40K on paper since our CAN$ went throught the roof. And it could lose easily another 5-10% in the next few months. So what ? I will not take money out of there for at least 20 years ... it's nothing down the road !
[OP]
Deal Addict
Oct 1, 2006
1767 posts
767 upvotes
Montreal
jay81k wrote:
Aug 24th, 2017 4:47 pm
You must of invested around the same time as me . Seems like we got in when things were extended to the upside , and now they're all dropping alot as of late. I actually made a bit of money with XAW and got out about 2 weeks ago as the market seemed worrisome to me and just wanted to lock in profits and possibly get back in later. VCN has not been doing well at all and for some reason I put a good chunk in there. Regretting it but Im holding on and collecting dividends for now while it hopefully recovers.
That's terrible, please do not do this! You are trying to time the market. This is not going to work and will reduce your rate of return over the long-term.
Newbie
Jan 23, 2017
62 posts
65 upvotes
asa1973 wrote:
Aug 24th, 2017 3:49 pm
MAW105 is a "balanced" fund like MAW104 but optimized for non-reg accounts
http://www.mawer.com/our-funds/fund-pro ... nced-fund/

MER is 0.93% , not the lowest one but OK for all-in-one solution
May I ask, why go for an "all-in-one solution" fund like MAW105? Why not simply do a CCP mix using TD e-Series or ETFs? Is there a special consideration for this situation when investing in a non-registered account with the intention of moving in-kind to registered accounts?

Sorry, I'm an investing n00b with just enough knowledge to be dangerous. :)
Jr. Member
Mar 29, 2015
126 posts
25 upvotes
Westmount, QC
Yes I agree it's terrible if you are following the CCP model which I was when I first started investing. What I don't get is why keeping your money frozen in something that's only going down is a good idea instead of putting it into a stock that's actually making money ?
Member
User avatar
Nov 26, 2014
315 posts
49 upvotes
Quebec
jay81k wrote:
Aug 25th, 2017 9:54 am
Yes I agree it's terrible if you are following the CCP model which I was when I first started investing. What I don't get is why keeping your money frozen in something that's only going down is a good idea instead of putting it into a stock that's actually making money ?
Maybe because Germack, unlike you, doesn't seem to have a crystal ball to know which stock will go up...
I lost my crystal ball too so I'm not trying to time the market either
Newbie
Aug 24, 2017
1 posts
This is a feeler request for information on getting started in the couch potato management model . My search is driven by the realization of how much my managed fund is taking as fees,as well as the fact that the the couch potato model out performs my managed fund. I am thinking i'm not the first person to follow down this road, so i'm looking for any advice on how to transfer my existing managed fund value and move it to couch potato model . Wondering if there are any fees in removing my funds from my existing managed fund, also wondering if there are any agencies that set up the initial couch potato model .
Any first hand knowledge would be appreciated
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 16, 2009
1101 posts
344 upvotes
Vancouver
jay81k wrote:
Aug 25th, 2017 9:54 am
Yes I agree it's terrible if you are following the CCP model which I was when I first started investing. What I don't get is why keeping your money frozen in something that's only going down is a good idea instead of putting it into a stock that's actually making money ?
Because you're looking at a very short period in time. The past few months have been bad, for sure. But if you compare it to the 20-30-40 year timeline that most people invest in CCP, that's what, <1% of the overall timeline? Peanuts. Absolutely peanuts in the grand scheme of things. You're wasting more time, effort, and money, trying to time the market and catch the upswings than the overall benefit it will net you. So invest. Let it sit. Relax.
Jr. Member
Mar 29, 2015
126 posts
25 upvotes
Westmount, QC
DefconZero wrote:
Aug 25th, 2017 10:28 am
Because you're looking at a very short period in time. The past few months have been bad, for sure. But if you compare it to the 20-30-40 year timeline that most people invest in CCP, that's what, <1% of the overall timeline? Peanuts. Absolutely peanuts in the grand scheme of things. You're wasting more time, effort, and money, trying to time the market and catch the upswings than the overall benefit it will net you. So invest. Let it sit. Relax.
Ok thanks for the input !
Deal Addict
Jul 23, 2007
3414 posts
1214 upvotes
islanderr37 wrote:
Aug 25th, 2017 10:15 am
This is a feeler request for information on getting started in the couch potato management model . My search is driven by the realization of how much my managed fund is taking as fees,as well as the fact that the the couch potato model out performs my managed fund. I am thinking i'm not the first person to follow down this road, so i'm looking for any advice on how to transfer my existing managed fund value and move it to couch potato model . Wondering if there are any fees in removing my funds from my existing managed fund, also wondering if there are any agencies that set up the initial couch potato model .
Any first hand knowledge would be appreciated
There may well be costs involved if your fund company charges to do a transfer to another financial institution. Also if it's a no-load fund you own there may be no other costs incurred, but if it's a fund with a deferred sales charge, then depending on how many years you've held it, that may be another cost to you.

Canadian Couch Potato gives you some model portfolios to consider if you decide to move to another financial institution.

"The Millionaire Teacher" Second Edition by Andrew Hallam is also a very good resource for Canadians. You could try to find it in your library first.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Feb 1, 2012
809 posts
764 upvotes
Thunder Bay, ON
imclumzy wrote:
Aug 25th, 2017 9:52 am
May I ask, why go for an "all-in-one solution" fund like MAW105? Why not simply do a CCP mix using TD e-Series or ETFs? Is there a special consideration for this situation when investing in a non-registered account with the intention of moving in-kind to registered accounts?

Sorry, I'm an investing n00b with just enough knowledge to be dangerous. :)
One reason is simplicity, owning one fund instead of four or more, so fewer finds to buy and no need to rebalance. This works well for elderly people or very busy people.

Another reason, for me, is to segregate a part of my portfolio. I have a chunk of mad money in MAW105, that is for a different use than my retirement savings, yet I can keep it in the same account.

Also Mawer is a small fund company with a focused strategy that has very good performance results.

Nonetheless, for me I would not keep all or even most of my money in a single actively managed fund.
Invest your time actively and your money passively.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Feb 1, 2012
809 posts
764 upvotes
Thunder Bay, ON
funnykiddy wrote:
Aug 24th, 2017 12:05 pm
Will probably pull the trigger today. Advice much appreciated!!

I understand the principle behind buy and hold for long-term growth, I guess I'm having trouble putting it into practice what with all the worrisome news around the world.
There is pretty much always some worrisome news somewhere. The trick for index investors is to ignore it. The stock market is a random walk short-term and an upward trend long term.
It is helpful to look at history to understand how the stock market recovers from corrections and bear markets:

May 1946 to May 1947. Stocks plunge 28.4%.
June 1948 to June 1949. Stocks decline 20.6%.
June 1950 to July 1950. Stocks fall 14%.
July 1957 to October 1957. Stocks fall 20.7%.
January 1962 to June 1962. Stocks plunge 26.4%
February 1966 to October 1966. Stocks fall 22.2%.
February 1966 to October 1966. Stocks fall 22.2%.
November 1968 to May 1970. Stocks plunge 36.1%.
April 1973 to October 1974. Stocks plunge 48%
September 1976 to March 1978. Stocks fall 19.4%.
February 1980 to March 1980. Stocks fall 17.1%.
November 1980 to August 1982. Stocks fall 27.1%.
August 1987 to December 1987. Stocks fall 33.5%.
July 1990 to October 1990. Stocks fall 19.9%.
July 1998 to August 1998. Stocks fall 19.3%.
March 2000 to October 2002. Stocks plummet 49.1%.
November 2002 to March 2003. Stocks fall 14.7%
October 2007 to March 2009. Stocks plummet 56.8%.
April 2011 to October 2011. Stocks fall 19.4%.
June 2015 to August 2015. Stocks fall 11.9%

Stocks gained +1,100-fold during this 70-year period.
Source

Lesson learned: Stay-the-Course
Invest your time actively and your money passively.

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