Personal Finance

CRA bill unreasonable?

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  • Dec 10th, 2018 12:32 pm
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[OP]
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Sep 26, 2007
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CRA bill unreasonable?

edit: please read the whole thread before replying, CRA has since sent me a 2015 NoRA as well, all of the bill which originated from owed CPP/EI deductions

so earlier this year a place where i did an experience/unpaid internship when i was a fresh out of school several years back calls me out of the blue, tells me they want to update everyone's info...and so i did.

later I was contacted by CRA for a EI/CPP rulings dating back to 2016 and claimed i was a paid employee during my time there. I appealed with a short online questionnaire, then they sent a more detailed questionnaire to fill out. Sent that back, didn't hear anything.

2-3 months passed, and le tax man abruptly bills me $2000 interest inlucded with a re-assessment that has nothing to do with EI/CPP...and expect me to pay it in 2 weeks (fed/prov tuition and edu carryfwd amounts)

is it because CRA realized they had no grounds to reassess me based on the info i gave and they decided to try and muscle me into paying something else?

i can do a formal dispute again, but I'm just wondering if people have run into bizzare situations like this before. Why are they even going after 2016 credits weeks away from 2019?
Last edited by twitchyzero on Dec 9th, 2018 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Russell wrote:
Sep 10th, 2011 12:29 pm
We come here looking for deals. We use the savings on the things we buy to justify buying more things, thus filling our homes with tons of unnecessary consumer products. Such is the key to happiness.

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May 16, 2017
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You need to provide more info to get a helpful answer.

CRA can go back 3 years minimum (AFTER the initial assessment), and farther if they believe there was fraud, neglect or wilful misrepresentation. So, going back to 2016 is well within bounds.

The question is what did they re-assess? They must have presented you with a summary of the re-assessment. If it is accurate, you have no choice but to pay - if inaccurate, dispute it with evidence. The interest amount is almost always charged as it is up to you to file an accurate return, even if it was an inadvertent error. If they think it was wilful, then there would be a penalty on top of interest.

CRA can base their re-assessment on anything they find within that 3 years - not simply info you provided. Did the info provided by your internship "employer" actually result in a change to your return?
[OP]
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Sep 26, 2007
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no idea, i might find out if i ever get through CRA's busy phone lines

they re-assessed tuition/edu carryfwd amounts. I've ualways used turbotax and graduated years ago, never an issue, for them to focus on a '16 return at end of 2018 seems bizzare

i can't recall, is it normal for them to ask for payment in 2 weeks?

like they took 3 months and still haven't heard back regarding cpp/ei ruling, but they want to set a separate payment deadline 2 weeks out..?

it's a sizable payment esp at end of the year holiday time
Russell wrote:
Sep 10th, 2011 12:29 pm
We come here looking for deals. We use the savings on the things we buy to justify buying more things, thus filling our homes with tons of unnecessary consumer products. Such is the key to happiness.

Sr. Member
Aug 17, 2003
802 posts
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Toronto
twitchyzero wrote:
Dec 6th, 2018 1:04 am
no idea, i might find out if i ever get through CRA's busy phone lines

they re-assessed tuition/edu carryfwd amounts. I've ualways used turbotax and graduated years ago, never an issue, for them to focus on a '16 return at end of 2018 seems bizzare

i can't recall, is it normal for them to ask for payment in 2 weeks?

like they took 3 months and still haven't heard back regarding cpp/ei ruling, but they want to set a separate payment deadline 2 weeks out..?

it's a sizable payment esp at end of the year holiday time
They don't demand payment within two weeks - it is two weeks until they start accruing interest again at credit card rates. They cannot seek collection until the 90 day objection window has closed unless they believe there is 'jeopardy' (a fear you will run away with the money).

If you file an objection - has to be done within 90 days of the objection - the CRA cannot take collection action while the matter is in dispute. But if you lose the challnege you will owe more as interest will continue to grow.

The strange part is that they usually ask for proof of tuition/education carryforwards before denying. Did you ignore any requests? If you think they got it wrong - it may be worth it fighting.

PM me with the CRA letter and I am happy to look at it for you.
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Nov 10, 2018
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twitchyzero wrote:
Dec 6th, 2018 1:04 am
no idea, i might find out if i ever get through CRA's busy phone lines
You should be calling your auditor.
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Jul 3, 2017
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Pay first, ask questions later. The CRA will continue to bill you interest even when it's their error, and it takes an exponentially-growing amount of time and effort to get them to correct interest on errors.
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Nov 10, 2018
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Exp315 wrote:
Dec 6th, 2018 9:53 am
Pay first, ask questions later. The CRA will continue to bill you interest even when it's their error, and it takes an exponentially-growing amount of time and effort to get them to correct interest on errors.
Then you would file the application to have interest waived based on the fact of unreasonable delay on the CRA's fault. It is usually granted.
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angryaudifanatic wrote:
Dec 6th, 2018 10:56 am
Then you would file the application to have interest waived based on the fact of unreasonable delay on the CRA's fault. It is usually granted.
And in the meantime you will be charged more interest, and have to file another application to waive that interest, etc.

How much of your life are you going to spend on the phone waiting to talk to somebody at the CRA? And when you do get hold of someone who says they will look into it, nothing happens except more interest the next month...
Member
Nov 10, 2018
264 posts
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Exp315 wrote:
Dec 6th, 2018 11:00 am
And in the meantime you will be charged more interest, and have to file another application to waive that interest, etc.

How much of your life are you going to spend on the phone waiting to talk to somebody at the CRA? And when you do get hold of someone who says they will look into it, nothing happens except more interest the next month...
If you are in the position the OP is, the auditor is the one that should be called. Based on personal experience, I have always gotten right through or I get a call back within 24 hours.

You're making the assumption the OP can pay the tax bill off now. You and I have no idea if they are facing a tax bill that they cannot afford.
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Jul 3, 2017
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angryaudifanatic wrote:
Dec 6th, 2018 11:01 am
If you are in the position the OP is, the auditor is the one that should be called. Based on personal experience, I have always gotten right through or I get a call back within 24 hours.

You're making the assumption the OP can pay the tax bill off now. You and I have no idea if they are facing a tax bill that they cannot afford.
Also based on personal experience, sometimes you get a prompt professional response from the CRA, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get "that department is short-staffed, and I guess they haven't got around to looking into that yet even though the last agent you spoke to promised that it would be fixed right away, and in the meantime here's more interest penalty and another demand for payment".

If the OP can't pay, then he can't pay. If he wants to avoid compounding the hassle, pay now and then be patient trying to get it all corrected, always balancing the amount you hope to recover vs. the effort likely remaining to make sure it's worth it.
Member
May 16, 2017
373 posts
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twitchyzero wrote:
Dec 6th, 2018 1:04 am

they re-assessed tuition/edu carryfwd amounts. I've ualways used turbotax and graduated years ago, never an issue, for them to focus on a '16 return at end of 2018 seems bizzare
Which goes back to the question - is their re-assessment of those tuition/education amounts accurate? If that is the sum total of the re-assessment, and it is accurate, you will eventually need to pay. Otherwise, collect your evidence to appeal the re-assessment.

Nothing bizarre about going back to 2016 if some other event (like the EI-CPP thing) caused them to review older returns. Happens all the time.
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Dec 24, 2007
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Lacking a lot of information to really help you.

It's probably just coincidental that you got a CRA reassessment after filing for a CPP/EI ruling as they are totally different areas. Not likely a CPP review officer would forward your file to Audit unless you have unreported employment income that doesn't match up with their records as their responsibility is limited to reviewing Employer/employment relationships, nothing more. They don't have the time to start looking at other things on your file.

Your reassessment should explain the changes they have made to your return and how that resulted in a higher tax payable for 2016. Are you sure you didn't mess up on your tuition fee carryforward numbers when using TurboTax?
[OP]
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Sep 26, 2007
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one other piece of the puzzle came in 3 days later

2015 reassessment came in and asking me to pay even more, it IS tied to a CPP ruling after all....it gets more bizzare, this time they didn't attach a pay due date or a remittance/payment form for the bank teller

i'm guessing 2017 is going to be snow-balled with the tuition carryover amount...can update next week as they can't seem to send documents at once or something and prefers to keep it confusing

so far the letters have been relatively cookie-cutter, and NO auditor's information or direct line. Just the name of the commissioner.

will call the CPP officer first thing Monday...assuming she isn't already on a holiday for the rest of the year i'm expecting some deflection to another department or ask me to refer to my turbotax from almost 4 years ago that I can't even install any more.

A+ job, CRA

the score so far.. tax man: 1, twitchyzero -3

really don't have time for the crap fling my way around this time of the year...bug me in 2019 when you have some concrete documentation to substantiate your claims?
Russell wrote:
Sep 10th, 2011 12:29 pm
We come here looking for deals. We use the savings on the things we buy to justify buying more things, thus filling our homes with tons of unnecessary consumer products. Such is the key to happiness.

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Jan 27, 2007
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Your initial post states you did an experience/unpaid internship, but then got contacted by CRA in which you told them you were an employee.

Did you get paid or not?
[OP]
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Sep 26, 2007
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as the name implies, i was not paid...i was not an employee but it looks like CRA disagrees
awaiting monday to see where this goes
Russell wrote:
Sep 10th, 2011 12:29 pm
We come here looking for deals. We use the savings on the things we buy to justify buying more things, thus filling our homes with tons of unnecessary consumer products. Such is the key to happiness.

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