Computers & Electronics

CRTC hearings have wrapped up ....

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  • Jun 4th, 2010 9:35 pm
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Feb 11, 2004
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CRTC hearings have wrapped up ....

With teksavvy being the last presenters & trying to nail home some points. With lisening to the last 5 days of testemony's & responces there is 2 things clear now ...

Bell & Telus (Bellus) have NO interest in change or advancement of canada's internet speeds or options related to them ... UNLESS they can 1) make a profit on it & 2) control all aspects on it while holding to continue being a " monopoly" in it.

And

HOPEFULLY the CRTC took the info & has realized that there needs to be change of that "Bellus" situation & move things to have things more setup like euro for internet as Teksavvy's had proof & presenters representing europe & the europeans sucess in a more opened up model as they have.
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Deal Guru
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Nov 27, 2005
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Bite me. This is bull----.
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May 19, 2008
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I’ll believe crtc actually does something when i see it, till now all I see is the crtc taking meetings after meetings costing us huge amounts of money and things just keep getting worse
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What next, horse lovers to lobby the CRTC to order that a pony be made available to every little girl who wants one?

Bell, Telus, etc., have very reasonable and affordable options out there, have constantly been lowering prices over the past decade on their services, and deliver better service today than ever before, in the face of ferocious competition. Bell and Telus have only been marginally profitable enterprises for their shareholders in the past decade and don't pay their employees particularly high salaries. What more do people want? Free ponies?

If Teksavvy thinks they're so much better than Bell in providing the service, then Teksavvy should place an offer to buy Bell's physical plant before Bell's shareholders, at a reasonable cost, and get the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan to finance it.
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Mark77 wrote: What next, horse lovers to lobby the CRTC to order that a pony be made available to every little girl who wants one?

Bell, Telus, etc., have very reasonable and affordable options out there, have constantly been lowering prices over the past decade on their services, and deliver better service today than ever before, in the face of ferocious competition. Bell and Telus have only been marginally profitable enterprises for their shareholders in the past decade and don't pay their employees particularly high salaries. What more do people want? Free ponies?

If Teksavvy thinks they're so much better than Bell in providing the service, then Teksavvy should place an offer to buy Bell's physical plant before Bell's shareholders, at a reasonable cost, and get the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan to finance it.
wow telus and bell lover, i applied for a job there years ago their starting salary for a basic phone support started at 19.50 per hour same with bell and rogers

prices of internet have risen in Canada in the last decade, and services have been cut, monthly caps, throttling and over usage fees, not discussing how far we are from us based companies regarding mobile data

their issue is not how profitable they are, but home much more profitable they are the next year, if they made 1 billion $ today, next year they really need 1.5 or they will go bankrupt, poor them, here is my wallet take what you need
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Mark77 wrote: What next, horse lovers to lobby the CRTC to order that a pony be made available to every little girl who wants one?

Bell, Telus, etc., have very reasonable and affordable options out there, have constantly been lowering prices over the past decade on their services, and deliver better service today than ever before, in the face of ferocious competition. Bell and Telus have only been marginally profitable enterprises for their shareholders in the past decade and don't pay their employees particularly high salaries. What more do people want? Free ponies?

If Teksavvy thinks they're so much better than Bell in providing the service, then Teksavvy should place an offer to buy Bell's physical plant before Bell's shareholders, at a reasonable cost, and get the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan to finance it.
No, what's next is that telecom infrastructure and FTTH be made a public utility to be resold by private companies like Teksavvy or Bell or whoever, with services on top of that utility provided by those private companies (Internet, IPTV, Phone, etc). With that there would be no more infrastructure monopolies, no more crtc policing and no more squabbling. But it's sure as hell all the big players who have a monopoly (or triopoly or whatever you want to call it) won't want that happening.
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one more rant, only i Canada telecom companies can shaft their customers and still be making money, and just t make it little sweeter they use our money to do it
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Mark77 wrote: What next, horse lovers to lobby the CRTC to order that a pony be made available to every little girl who wants one?

Bell, Telus, etc., have very reasonable and affordable options out there, have constantly been lowering prices over the past decade on their services, and deliver better service today than ever before, in the face of ferocious competition. Bell and Telus have only been marginally profitable enterprises for their shareholders in the past decade and don't pay their employees particularly high salaries. What more do people want? Free ponies?

If Teksavvy thinks they're so much better than Bell in providing the service, then Teksavvy should place an offer to buy Bell's physical plant before Bell's shareholders, at a reasonable cost, and get the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan to finance it.
You must be one of those shareholders.
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Mark77 wrote: What next, horse lovers to lobby the CRTC to order that a pony be made available to every little girl who wants one?

Bell, Telus, etc., have very reasonable and affordable options out there, have constantly been lowering prices over the past decade on their services, and deliver better service today than ever before, in the face of ferocious competition. Bell and Telus have only been marginally profitable enterprises for their shareholders in the past decade and don't pay their employees particularly high salaries. What more do people want? Free ponies?

If Teksavvy thinks they're so much better than Bell in providing the service, then Teksavvy should place an offer to buy Bell's physical plant before Bell's shareholders, at a reasonable cost, and get the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan to finance it.
Are you on drugs, Mark?

CRTC is a 'buddy' of Bell? A sham... Bell had help with their establishment of their infrastructure. The Government financed this and this is common knowledge. Bell has been crying they need this and that because of costs but it's a bunch of crap. They just want to ensure their monopoly and control things. It's all BS and as everyone else is agreeing, it's just a matter of allowing the sham to continue as everyone keeps voting in the same politicians regardless of political stripe.
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devils-haven wrote: wow telus and bell lover, i applied for a job there years ago their starting salary for a basic phone support started at 19.50 per hour same with bell and rogers
Where? Toronto? Kindly explain how someone is supposed to actually live on less. Do you think that basic phone support people should be using the food bank? Wal-Mart and McD's start completely unskilled labour at $12/hour, so another $7 for some skills, OMG, the world is going to end!
prices of internet have risen in Canada in the last decade, and services have been cut, monthly caps, throttling and over usage fees, not discussing how far we are from us based companies regarding mobile data
A decade ago people were lucky to shove a couple gigabytes a month down a normal Bell or Rogers package, either because of speed, or because of connectivity limitations. Today, even on the cheapest plans from Rogers/Bell, people can do that in a week. The cost of retail data transmission has dropped dramatically on a per megabyte basis through all three of Rogers, Bell, and Telus. Systems that were previously massively oversubscribed and underprovisioned, now aren't (or at least not severely as before!).
their issue is not how profitable they are, but home much more profitable they are the next year, if they made 1 billion $ today, next year they really need 1.5 or they will go bankrupt, poor them, here is my wallet take what you need
Sure, wages have been rising in Canada, and the usefulness of the Internet has risen as well. Don't the owners of the systems which bring you the valuable Internet service also deserve a raise? Certainly there's a massive difference between delivering the relatively basic html pages of a decade ago, and the modern 1-2 megabyte a pages we have today, along with torrents, video, etc. It all costs $$$$, not to mention the cost of actually building and maintaining the physical plant has risen dramatically with the increasing wages and fuel costs.
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SAN66 wrote: No, what's next is that telecom infrastructure and FTTH be made a public utility to be resold by private companies like Teksavvy or Bell or whoever, with services on top of that utility provided by those private companies (Internet, IPTV, Phone, etc). With that there would be no more infrastructure monopolies, no more crtc policing and no more squabbling. But it's sure as hell all the big players who have a monopoly (or triopoly or whatever you want to call it) won't want that happening.
Exactly. But, the Goverment is controlled by organizations like the CRTC and all the monopoly control caters also to large corporations including the powerful organizations like RIAA/CIAA who also want all these services under strict control.
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Mark77 wrote: Sure, wages have been rising in Canada, and the usefulness of the Internet has risen as well. Don't the owners of the systems which bring you the valuable Internet service also deserve a raise? Certainly there's a massive difference between delivering the relatively basic html pages of a decade ago, and the modern 1-2 megabyte a pages we have today, along with torrents, video, etc. It all costs $$$$, not to mention the cost of actually building and maintaining the physical plant has risen dramatically with the increasing wages and fuel costs.
A raise on the billions these companies have collected? They get loans easily and the Government merely prints money for these groups or allows their monopolistic control. They deserve squat.
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Mark77 is clearly anti-consumer and anti-competition. No point in replying to this guy.
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SAN66 wrote: No, what's next is that telecom infrastructure and FTTH be made a public utility to be resold by private companies like Teksavvy or Bell or whoever, with services on top of that utility provided by those private companies (Internet, IPTV, Phone, etc). With that there would be no more infrastructure monopolies, no more crtc policing and no more squabbling. But it's sure as hell all the big players who have a monopoly (or triopoly or whatever you want to call it) won't want that happening.
Lol, you want a government that couldn't even run Ontario Hydro (or its successor companies) efficiently or competently, to run a public Internet utility?

Hilarious. If you think Bell is bad, I would suggest you take a look at the government's complete mismanagement of the Darlington GS project in the 1980s ($2B project turned into $14B once it was all done!). Or the Ontario Hydro nuclear fiasco in the late 1990s. Or eHealth. Etc., etc. Almost anything government puts its hands on turns out bad.
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wow mark77 did i mention cost or wages? their yearly profits go up, they still increase salaries normally and their ceos well frankly are over paid, yet still with added expense they increase their profit margins while giving the crtc a sob story about them going down hill

after some fact checking and googling their profit fall 4th quarter to only 156million this is due to some infrastructure investment, they where doing over 250million previous quarters, and their profits are expected to rise next quarter as more clients are increasing the use of data and their "restructuring" aka firing people or lowering salaries to help them cope with their 1st investment in many years.

oops this information is based on 4th quarter of 2009
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Mark77 wrote: What next, horse lovers to lobby the CRTC to order that a pony be made available to every little girl who wants one?

Bell, Telus, etc., have very reasonable and affordable options out there, have constantly been lowering prices over the past decade on their services, and deliver better service today than ever before, in the face of ferocious competition. Bell and Telus have only been marginally profitable enterprises for their shareholders in the past decade and don't pay their employees particularly high salaries. What more do people want? Free ponies?

If Teksavvy thinks they're so much better than Bell in providing the service, then Teksavvy should place an offer to buy Bell's physical plant before Bell's shareholders, at a reasonable cost, and get the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan to finance it.
Constantly lowering their prices? How come 4 years ago Aurora (covered by Aurora Cable Internet, ACI) had 9meg cable internet, unlimited bandwidth for $36/month and now that Rogers took over its capped, and for $36/month you get multiple times slower connection then you did before?

That's called moving backwards, not forwards with technology. Internet access these days should be like running water. Its old news. Its everywhere. There should be no big premium for internet access. And before you cry about Canada having a huge land mass, that excuse doesn't jive with me in southern Ontario. We are MORE then dense enough a population here to support a top of the line communications infrastructure at a fair price.
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zonetbh wrote: Constantly lowering their prices? How come 4 years ago Aurora (covered by Aurora Cable Internet, ACI) had 9meg cable internet, unlimited bandwidth for $36/month and now that Rogers took over its capped, and for $36/month you get multiple times slower connection then you did before?
That's an unfortunate situation, but not indicative of the experience over the whole universe of Rogers/Telus/Bell customers. A decade ago, IIRC, large swaths of Mississauga only had 256kbit or 512kbit DSL service. Now those customers have 4-8mbit DSL service pretty much across the board, and can shove multiples of what was previously possible over those lines. For only a modest increase in the monthly rate. The per megabyte of useful data transmission capacity cost has been lowered dramatically. Its probably so low right now that the infrastructure isn't sustainable.
There should be no big premium for internet access. And before you cry about Canada having a huge land mass, that excuse doesn't jive with me in southern Ontario. We are MORE then dense enough a population here to support a top of the line communications infrastructure at a fair price.
I'd suggest that Bell/Rogers/Telus aren't charging enough for the access, and this is the root of the problems. The problem is that of a discount being present in the market, not a premium. The discount is caused by excessive competition, and infrastructure duplication. If you look at those overseas countries with very fast Internet speeds, very few of them have infrastructure duplication, and this helps to keep costs low.
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Mark77 wrote: That's an unfortunate situation, but not indicative of the experience over the whole universe of Rogers/Telus/Bell customers. A decade ago, IIRC, large swaths of Mississauga only had 256kbit or 512kbit DSL service. Now those customers have 4-8mbit DSL service pretty much across the board, and can shove multiples of what was previously possible over those lines. For only a modest increase in the monthly rate. The per megabyte of useful data transmission capacity cost has been lowered dramatically. Its probably so low right now that the infrastructure isn't sustainable.
I never said speeds have not increased in general. But they have NOT increased at a pace that can compete with the rest of the developed world at a cost:speed ratio. My friend in Daytona has 50meg cable for roughly $60usd/month. UNLIMITED bandwidth. Where is my option for that from Rogers/Bell? We used to have just as good options as the states before the Bell/Rogers monopoly totally screwed over the entire province.

CAPS are another thing that have gone backwards in time. 5 years ago every standard 5meg DSL connection was unlimited, including from Bell. Now its all capped so bad that even average users need to check their usage weekly to ensure they aren't going to see a $200 internet bill in the mail. What GARBAGE! This is the internet, in 2010. Its like running water now. I don't have to worry about measuring how many cups of water I use in a day just in case some greedy corporation is going to charge me up the ass for an extra few cups. Why should I have to do that with the internet?

I back Teksavvy 100% with their unlimited data plans. I don't even use more then 200gigs/month generally but I still prefer to have unlimited so I simply do NOT have to worry about it. That's how the future should be.

I remember being told in school in the late 90's that EVENTUALLY the internet will turn into one, big network connected at LAN speeds. Well you know what no LAN has? CAPS. Caps don't belong on an internet connection and I for one will not pay for a connection with one.
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wasserware wrote:Guess we have a paid spokesperson here on the forum...
No, I just look at the facts. A decade ago, I know that a barrel of oil cost about $35/barrel. Minimum wage was $7/hour. A decent house in the GTA could be purchased for $300k. And Internet access cost a certain amount.

All those things seem to have doubled (or more!) in the decade since, except that of the cost of the same Internet access package. In fact, the Internet cost has gone down dramatically. While its usefulness, in terms of what a person can do online, has increased rapidly.

So where's the fairness? Why should Bell/Rogers/Telus be shafted when every other industry seems to have been helping themselves to generous raises over the past decade? Why should a 3rd party company, who invested not a dime of their own money into local loop infrastructure, be allowed to use that infrastructure for less than its true replacement cost (which most certainly, because of the inflation in everything else, has likely also doubled or tripled in the past decade?)?

People can't have it both ways.
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zonetbh wrote: Its like running water now. I don't have to worry about measuring how many cups of water I use in a day just in case some greedy corporation is going to charge me up the ass for an extra few cups. Why should I have to do that with the internet?
Call up Bell and order an unlimited plan, or simply budget for the over-age charges on the basis that you're using your line 24/7. Simple.

As for your comment about running water, just because you don't worry about it, doesn't mean that whomever provides you with the water doesn't worry about it. The supply chain needs to be adequately compensated for its time and capital.

And 'greedy corporation', hardly. You want to see examples of greed, go look at the banks; billions of dollars in profits with nearly unlimited government backstops over at the CMHC if ever things go wrong. There are no backstops in telecom, and investors in those companies have barely made anything, relative to other sectors, in the past decade.

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