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CS Majors: Who gets the Amazon, Apple, Google internships?

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Member
Jan 28, 2004
269 posts
8 upvotes
Toronto
Mark77 wrote: Ummm, let's see. Most guys at RIM are UW grads. RIM's salaries are well known to be considerably lower than their US counterparts. Just try googling stuff.
Let's see, Most guys at RIM are UW grads != Most UW grads work at rim, which you claimed. You aren't coherent.
Respected or not, the labour market is highly glutted up for CS/EE/CompE grads, and while UW grads do better than most other Canadian schools, they're not immune to the problems either.
Instead of spreading fud, why don't you focus on finding out the critical success factors? Don't you think you'll be more productive that way? You already started by going to UW *maybe* factor. Great. Now go do more googling.

The same claims were made a decade ago, yet employment has not increased in the industry in the past decade and many hundreds of thousands (if not close to a million) foreign guest workers were imported to take most of the entry-level jobs in the United States. The Canadian industry has collapsed with firms like Nortel, Corel, Matrox, Mitel/Zarlink, PMC Sierra, JDSU, etc., being either non-existent, or a very small fraction of their decade-ago size. All of this against a backdrop of record graduations in EE/CS/CompE in the late 1990s up until around 2004-2005 when graduations started to fall off dramatically.
You know this is a dynamic and agile field right? Only those who adapt with the on-going changes of technology is going to survive and prosper. So what? If you love technology and you make a commitment to keep up then you will be fine. If you become stagnant, then you will be cut. It's just business. Software and devices is going to be even more important than ever in the future.
Maybe UW grads didn't suffer as bad as grads from "lesser" schools, but you got your head in the sand if you don't think that a lot of absolutely great talent has had their careers ruined by what's happened. But hey, nice try at throwing around a bunch of buzzwords, many of which (ie: "cloud computing") actually *reduce* demand for CS and IT people.
I don't know if you realize, but we are in moving towards an elastic computing which requires a new way of thinking of developing applications. But I don't expect you to understand the technical details nor do I want to get into it. The old ways of doing things won't work any more. Since you aren't actually developing these technologies, you won't understand the implications this have on people's lives.
Member
Jan 28, 2004
269 posts
8 upvotes
Toronto
Mark77 wrote: BTW, I can't find a UWaterloo graduate salary survey, but here's a quote from a very happy UW customer:

http://forums.studentawards.com/yaf_pos ... adays.aspx
Sigh. You like straw men? Really dude?

Maybe I should reply back to the thread and tell them that hope is not lost guys. That I know a guy joining my team out of grad school and getting $95k + $50k stock bonuses.
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Nov 1, 2009
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Mark77 wrote: Yet most UW grads end up either unemployed, or working for RIM (@ RIM's low salaries). So I wouldn't say its a slam dunk, even if one does get an interview. However, definitely, you've skewed the odds in your favour somewhat, if you're going to UW. Maybe instead of 1 in 1000 odds, you're down to 1 in 100 odds of landing a job at Google.
That's nonsense bud. All of my friends from Waterloo have jobs and doing great. The lowest $$ earned by one of my friends was $60K last year. Just b/c most of RIM employees are UW grads doesn't mean most UW grads work for RIM... Very few people I know actually work for RIM these days - most have other jobs and are doing good.
Mark77 wrote: Google definitely recruits from UW. They even have a little hole-in-the-wall in Kitchener (in the Tannery building) that they basically use as a 'presence' at UW. Nothing much happens there, but apparently Steven Woods has some legal, financial, or visa reasons why he doesn't want to live in the USA (okay...I'm letting on too much of an inside story here....).
Do tell us more :) .
Mark77 wrote: Then you're back into the 1 in 1000 queue. And "jumping from one big name to another big name" definitely is not easy -- many of the 'big names' have agreements between each other not to poach employees.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/27537 ... l-otellini
Well that's an interesting article, and I was frankly pretty surprised that it was the case. Anyway, the point is now that arrangement is likely not present given the court challenges and public scrutiny. So, jumping from one big to another is a viable possibility as I said.
hrmmm wrote: You know this is a dynamic and agile field right? Only those who adapt with the on-going changes of technology is going to survive and prosper. So what? If you love technology and you make a commitment to keep up then you will be fine. If you become stagnant, then you will be cut. It's just business. Software and devices is going to be even more important than ever in the future.

In spite of what I said before, I do agree with Mark in that the s/w industry is likely not very viable as a "long term" career in this modern age. The point above in your quote can be used argue why the s/w industry WILL suck in the future. Since the profession is so adaptable, there is more value in the younger guys than the older guys. The value of the older s/w programmer decreases every year. This is a profession where "experience" tapers off as you age - from the "software design/programming" viewpoint. I would say that early-30s is when you hit your peak in terms of knowledge and experience. You are up-to-date in the latest tech and have the necessary experience to draw upon. In most teams I've worked on, the 45-50+ year old programmer is pretty out-dated, have bad programming practises, and too damn stubborn to change their ways.

This is one of the inherent problems with the profession - experience is not very valuable, pretty much just after you really start your career (early 30s). Coupled with the cheap labour coming from Asia AND the outsourcing that are outright stripping the jobs, the s/w market in North America does NOT look very promising as a long-term career. The older programmers are getting hit by 3 fronts: the immigrant programmers, outsourcing, and local educated young programmers.
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Feb 15, 2008
26318 posts
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Phoenix3434 wrote: The older programmers are getting hit by 3 fronts: the immigrant programmers, outsourcing, and local educated young programmers.

From what I've seen, most of the younger programmers in the Silicon Valley aren't domestic (ie: Canadian or US citizens). The H-1B visas, which have imported nearly a million guest workers in the past decade, have decimated the ranks of people hired into entry-level positions.

This graph pretty much shows the trend:

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/25ptlsh.jpg[/IMG]

Basically the ranks of the under-35 crowd, the people who over the past decade or two were studying CS/IT in droves, have been decimated by foreigners. Gradually the visa workers 'convert' into non-visa workers as they receive permanent residency (ie: green cards, or marry US citizens). The results have been devastating to the employment prospects of IT workers domestically, especially the young.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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Feb 15, 2008
26318 posts
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hrmmm wrote: Sigh. You like straw men? Really dude?

Maybe I should reply back to the thread and tell them that hope is not lost guys. That I know a guy joining my team out of grad school and getting $95k + $50k stock bonuses.

There's always outliers. And I, too, hope that the $30k claim was merely an exxageration. But after hearing from the recruiter for my local teleco that they received no less than 50 Computer Engineer resumes for a single telecom engineering job.....
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
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Jun 4, 2006
2069 posts
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Any of my UW friends with a decent resume and GPA got a chance to interview with Microsoft. From there getting a job was on them but I cannot name one person who did not get an interview.

Funny story, another friend basically failed out UW soft eng in first year cause he partied like a mofo and got probation. Ended up at another not so great Canadian school, killed in his internships worked at a top firm in Ottawa and now he is at Amazon in Seattle. A lot of his co-workers come from UW and had a much easier time getting in.
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Oct 25, 2003
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Phoenix3434 wrote: And a degree from Waterloo.. Looking at your location, I am presuming this is what you are working towards. I have a couple of friends who are managers at Amazon and Microsoft - and they only hire from Waterloo (in Canada) - at least a couple years back.

What you need:
1) good resume with your excellent programming experience outlined
2) good GPA
3) Excellent mastery of programming and design patterns. None of this Visual Basic and Python bull****. Know your C/C++ - knowing Java/C# will help too
4) Be likeable

(1) and (2) to get your foot in the door to get called into interview. (3) and (4) to get the job.

I don't see why you're ragging on Python? Ever heard of Athena at JP Morgan? Python.

Plenty of non "technology" companies out there that require gobs and gobs of developers!
Newbie
Mar 3, 2012
23 posts
WATERLOO
B0000rt wrote: I don't see why you're ragging on Python? Ever heard of Athena at JP Morgan? Python.

Plenty of non "technology" companies out there that require gobs and gobs of developers!

We use python right now in first year at UoT and I don't want to use anything else!
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Aug 13, 2002
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Mark77 wrote: Come on, you've probably taken basic statistics in school. If Google hires 1 in 1000 applicants, and hires 1 in 7 people they interview (just some numbers I've heard), that means that only 1 in 140 applicants are actually interviewed. So just getting past the obtaining an interview hurdle means that you've done 95% of the work involved at getting a job at Google.
Mark77 wrote: But after hearing from the recruiter for my local teleco that they received no less than 50 Computer Engineer resumes for a single telecom engineering job.....
You're completely missing the point, that or you're doing it on purpose. Just because 1000 people apply for a position, doesn't mean all 1000 are actually qualified. For a company with a brand and reputation like Google, I would imagine there would be a lot of people who are applying just to try their luck. I have no doubt that there are good people who get filtered out in the process, but it's not randomly drawing names out of a hat as you make it out to be. Also, just because someone has a CS or CE degree doesn't mean they're actually any good at the job.
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Mark77 wrote: From what I've seen, most of the younger programmers in the Silicon Valley aren't domestic (ie: Canadian or US citizens). The H-1B visas, which have imported nearly a million guest workers in the past decade, have decimated the ranks of people hired into entry-level positions.
...
Basically the ranks of the under-35 crowd, the people who over the past decade or two were studying CS/IT in droves, have been decimated by foreigners. Gradually the visa workers 'convert' into non-visa workers as they receive permanent residency (ie: green cards, or marry US citizens). The results have been devastating to the employment prospects of IT workers domestically, especially the young.
You see it as foreign workers killing entry level jobs, I see it as companies trying to find enough good people, regardless of where they may be from, since there aren't enough of them being trained locally. And for the record, Canadians are not "domestic" in Silicon Valley and make up a good chunk of those H1Bs you like to talk about.
Sr. Member
Mar 15, 2008
587 posts
52 upvotes
Hey, I'm a 3rd year Ryerson student and I got an internship offer from Amazon a couple weeks ago which i turned down to keep my position at a developer in a smaller company in waterloo..

To get the interview;

I worked at different positions moving up every slightly every term, started at RIM in database, then software development then moved to a startup to do mobile development.

Have a prominent linkedin.com account. I actually got solicited for a full time job at amazon there and the person forwarded my resume to someone else for coop.

On the interview:

I had 2 1-hour technical interviews. Practice coding, be ready to write code by hand. Know your algorithms and data structures (running times, what structures are better to use for what reason)..
Newbie
Mar 3, 2012
23 posts
WATERLOO
wonderboy wrote: Hey, I'm a 3rd year Ryerson student and I got an internship offer from Amazon a couple weeks ago which i turned down to keep my position at a developer in a smaller company in waterloo..

To get the interview;

I worked at different positions moving up every slightly every term, started at RIM in database, then software development then moved to a startup to do mobile development.

Have a prominent linkedin.com account. I actually got solicited for a full time job at amazon there and the person forwarded my resume to someone else for coop.

On the interview:

I had 2 1-hour technical interviews. Practice coding, be ready to write code by hand. Know your algorithms and data structures (running times, what structures are better to use for what reason)..
Awesome! But why did you not take Amazon? Also, did you have a personal website besides linkedin + did you have any side projects + are you at the top of the class? Thanks..
Sr. Member
Mar 15, 2008
587 posts
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avmans wrote: Awesome! But why did you not take Amazon? Also, did you have a personal website besides linkedin + did you have any side projects + are you at the top of the class? Thanks..

well i have a very good developer position at a successful start up in waterloo.. Not all jobs are good just because they are part of a big company in US.

I just bought my domain but other than linked in and few shining recommendations, i didn't have anything else. I'm not top of my class and they didn't look at my gpa. But there's one thing, and that is i'm a better programmer than all my friends. I learnt most from work and from reading books like code complete. Also i happen to have very good personal skills so i can usually do well in interviews and get friendly with the interviewers..
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Jan 4, 2008
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wonderboy wrote: well i have a very good developer position at a successful start up in waterloo.. Not all jobs are good just because they are part of a big company in US.

I just bought my domain but other than linked in and few shining recommendations, i didn't have anything else. I'm not top of my class and they didn't look at my gpa. But there's one thing, and that is i'm a better programmer than all my friends. I learnt most from work and from reading books like code complete. Also i happen to have very good personal skills so i can usually do well in interviews and get friendly with the interviewers..

wow you're a third year student and you already have a good developer position? That's awesome.. any other books you'd recommend for aspiring programmers to check out ? Or any other advice like that

thanks
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Newbie
Mar 3, 2012
23 posts
WATERLOO
Hi everyone, as an update I ended up getting an internship at one of the big four. Only two gave me interviews. I had an interview with Google that I failed but I think I would've had a better chance if I wasn't so nervous, since their interviews were very reasonable.

edit: also I did do what most people here suggested: work on projects, had an internship prior, and studied a lot on algorithms
Sr. Member
May 9, 2012
520 posts
173 upvotes
SF Bay Area
avmans wrote: Hi everyone, as an update I ended up getting an internship at one of the big four. Only two gave me interviews. I had an interview with Google that I failed but I think I would've had a better chance if I wasn't so nervous, since their interviews were very reasonable.
Congrats!
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Feb 5, 2010
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Mark relax. Our unemployment rate in Canada is about 7% not the 93% like you pretty much imply in your posts of every employment thread.
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Nov 25, 2010
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Kanada
How to get involved in open source software and take advantage of that to be more visible and hireable by the better software companies ?
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Oct 6, 2005
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Mark77 wrote: Yet most UW grads end up either unemployed, or working for RIM (@ RIM's low salaries). So I wouldn't say its a slam dunk, even if one does get an interview. However, definitely, you've skewed the odds in your favour somewhat, if you're going to UW. Maybe instead of 1 in 1000 odds, you're down to 1 in 100 odds of landing a job at Google.
Unemployed?

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