dealing with criminals

[xyyyyyyyx]

we provide international service and one of the deal did not go thru. The customer over sea (Mrs. A) sent us money, the same customer's family (mrs. X) in Canada ( who we mostly dealt with) asked us to give her 2 cheques, one to the customer (oversea person)'s daughter account (a minor - Ms. B ) in canada, one we left the name blank because we were hurry to go to the airport, supposed to be giving to the daughter's account (Ms. B), Mrs. X wrote her name in it. Mrs. A came over to canada and asked for a refund, she said she doesn't know about her sister's doing. We gave her both copies (from the bank) with the back stamped of the accounts of her daughter (Ms. B) and Mrs. X's name, only then that we known that Mrs. X has put her name there.

When we were meeting Mrs. A, Mrs.X made excused and not showing up.

We gave Mrs. A back the rest of the money ( minus the amounts in Ms. B's account and Mrs. X account)

Mrs. A seem ok with it since Mrs. X is taking care of Ms. B. Mrs. A and Mrs. X are sisters.

Only few hours after Mrs. A got her money back. Mrs. X called and said she wants us to give Mrs. A full amount back and deny about the two cheques.

We asked Mrs. X if she give us back the money from the accounts would could refund Mrs. A fully, she flat out lied and yelled, threaten to come to our business and tell all our customers, suing our company, etc. She said that her friends used to grow weeds, etc and we better be careful.


Our bank had provided us with the copies of the two cheques, the initial transaction details the Mrs. A sent, the money transfer that we made to Mrs. A while she's in Canada. Mrs. A also signed that she received that.

[ZackP]

I am sorry to hear that you got screwed up by customers. We experienced losses and attempts to defraud us for bigger amount many times. Made us very suspicious and careful about receiving payments.
I can't really understand everything you described but it sounds like variation of Nigerian fraud where they give you cheque or fraudulent payment and immediately after that demand refund. Point is to do it quickly before their payment proves to be pure BS.

I REALLY hope that you are not into exactly that situation because that means they gave to you fake money and got in return clean, good money!

Anyway, you didn't write HOW did you pay back to those people? And what is amount? If you did it by cheque than you will receive cancelled cheques and that is your proof who and when cashed a cheque(s). If you paid by wire you again have a proof showing to whom you returned money to. Bottom line is that you don't have Mr. A's money and it has been given to his family here as instructed. Let them clear out things between themselves.

[flafson]

Trust is a luxury these days. I have seen customers bury their whole family trying to lie their way out of things and i have also seen people get full service raising their voice and threatening in hopes to get a refund. I know it's a common practice in many places to get service and try to get a refund afterwards. I learned that it's usually better to stand ground and don't bend over to whatever they are saying. Even though the unexpected is scary, it's usually the right choice. Unless of course they have a point and are decent people and then i would refund.

[xyyyyyyyx]

I received a wire transfer from their home country. But the lady over here asked me to pay back in:
1. 1 cheque to Mrs. A ( the person who wired me the money ) 's daughter(Ms. B)

2. 1 cheque to Mrs. X (Mrs. A's sister living in Canada)

3. 1 account transfer to Mrs. A's daughter (Ms. B)

now Mrs. X denies about knowing about the two cheques.

and also threaten to tell all my customers, employees, and also threaten me saying she knows people who grew weed and gangsters

[flafson]

I received a wire transfer from their home country. But the lady over here asked me to pay back in:
1. 1 cheque to Mrs. A ( the person who wired me the money ) 's daughter(Ms. B)

2. 1 cheque to Mrs. X (Mrs. A's sister living in Canada)

3. 1 account transfer to Mrs. A's daughter (Ms. B)

now Mrs. X denies about knowing about the two cheques.

and also threaten to tell all my customers, employees, and also threaten me saying she knows people who grew weed and gangsters

Do you have those threats in email? If so the RCMP has a cyber unit for frauds. Might worth a shot.

[ZackP]

Amount is still unknown, however intentions look more clear to me. This was money laundry operation. Person from country of origin sent money abroad as payment for business transaction. He immediately cancelled transaction and asked for money to be funneled to his family in certain amounts. Now they are somehow dissatisfied with distribution percentages. There you have it.
I would not lose any sleep over this, break every contact with anybody involved. Forget whole thing except for lesson.

[slavka012]

But the lady over here asked me to pay back in:
1. 1 cheque to Mrs. A ( the person who wired me the money ) 's daughter(Ms. B)

2. 1 cheque to Mrs. X (Mrs. A's sister living in Canada)

3. 1 account transfer to Mrs. A's daughter (Ms. B)

I don't know about you, but I can smell something fishy from a mile away. How the hell you are going to explain checks to all these random people if CRA audits you? Refund?

So let's say, I have a valid customer in France, and a legit transaction and payment. Now I mark this invoice as cancelled, and issue a refund, but instead of the original payor I issue a couple of checks to friends or relatives. Do you for a second believe that CRA will buy it?

[xyyyyyyyx]

I don't know about you, but I can smell something fishy from a mile away. How the hell you are going to explain checks to all these random people if CRA audits you? Refund?

So let's say, I have a valid customer in France, and a legit transaction and payment. Now I mark this invoice as cancelled, and issue a refund, but instead of the original payor I issue a couple of checks to friends or relatives. Do you for a second believe that CRA will buy it?

Mrs. A signed a paper stating that received the money back as a refund.

well all these are my wife doing btw. I insisted her not to talk to or befriend with these people. Also told her a to refund to the account in their home country but Oh no she would had to be nice and do what other people ask of her instead of listening to ME!

The threats are done by phone. I believe these people are like you said laundrying money. I'm really upset with my wife right now!

[slavka012]

Mrs. A signed paper might not help too much if CRA questions it. It is still way too irregular.

Also told her a to refund to the account in their home country but Oh no she would had to be nice and do what other people ask of her instead of listening to ME!

Good advice, but... If only wives would always listen to their husbands... )

Can you arrange recording of the phone conversation?

[xyyyyyyyx]

I had that also. All incoming calls would be record automatically I set it up with Automated , virtual assistant but she said most of our customers are Non English speakers and would just hang up because they affaird that they would call the wrong number. So I removed it. Now this happen!

my wife afraid of technology because she doesn't understand how important it is in business. ARG. it's complete different if you just want to sale a home or an avon product (you're selling for someone, a brokerage or a cosmetic company!!) she just went out and sale sell sale sell ..... When I'm doing all the marketing. There's a big different between sale & advertising and marketing and branding. I'm so frustrated that my wife doesn't get the different level of thinking between owning a business and self employment!!! but I have to let her involve in business because if one day I would die in a car accident or something she could raise our kid.

Mrs. A signed paper might not help too much if CRA questions it. It is still way too irregular.



Good advice, but... If only wives would always listen to their husbands... )

Can you arrange recording of the phone conversation?

[flafson]

I've seen a statistic once that said that only about 5% of the population have the ability to be a business owners. It pretty much said that you either have it or you don't. My family business for instance, no matter how much my wife lives in it and sees me and my family and we talk about it all the time, she always put out comments that make me crazy at how much she doesn't get the mind set. It might change if she lived in it alot more but i wouldn't hold my breadth for it.

For example, you need to live your business and breadth it daily. Part of it is believing in your product. Every once in a while she would tell me, it works great, but i wouldn't pay that much for it. And i'm like, if you don't believe in it and you're my wife, how can i make money selling it? Or sometimes she would say, let's pay this or that from the business account. I'm saying business has been super weak lately and i won't do it. She will say, sure there is enough business, there is plenty of money in the bank account. Sure there is money, because we are very anal on what we spend the company's money.