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[DECEMBER 2018 UPDATE] Ask me anything about home electrical requirements, electrical code, wiring, devices

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Deal Addict
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Jun 21, 2003
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Stoney Creek, ON
Toucann wrote:
Nov 14th, 2019 10:57 am
Thanks for the reply.

What type of wire would I need? 12/2?

Any wiring diagrams online that I can reference when pulling out the existing wiring and putting in the new feed?
AMD wrote:
Nov 14th, 2019 2:12 pm

Don't want to be mean, but if you need a wiring diagram to add an outlet and feed it from an existing one, I think you should seek help from someone that's done electrical work before that can physically show you how it's done.
*


I have to be honest, I feel the same way as AMD. As far as electrical work goes this is the absolute most basic thing you could possibly do and should not require a wiring diagram. Personally I think it would be a good idea to seek assistance from an electrician or a friend that has done at least some basic electrical work.
Last edited by MrDisco on Nov 14th, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: quote was removed
Deal Addict
Feb 22, 2007
1875 posts
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Mississauga
relocating my kitchen sink....I think my receptacles are fine based on existing location...
kitchen sink.png
Could somebody double check...

to the right of the sink...it is a dishwasher...so 24"...so from the edge of the sink to the wall....it is slightly greater than 600mm....which requires a receptacle...and we have one there already (previous refridgerator location).

to the left of the sink...we have the width of a cabinet...which is also about 24" - 27" (from edge of the sink)....I have a receptacle on the adjacent wall about 12" from the corner....

is this acceptable or does this need to be on the wall with the sink?
Newbie
Nov 12, 2019
4 posts
Do the electrical wires coming out of holes though drywall need to have plugs in the drywall to keep the wires snug?
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Jun 21, 2003
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Stoney Creek, ON
Drizzt111 wrote:
Nov 16th, 2019 2:14 pm
Do the electrical wires coming out of holes though drywall need to have plugs in the drywall to keep the wires snug?
No.
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Dec 11, 2004
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What a plethora of information. Thanks to all who have contributed so far!!

After some lurking I have a few questions... But before that, here's some background.
200 amp panel
Completely full (small NOVA panel)
Unfinished basement

The long term plan is to upgrade the panel for more space, but for reasons it is not in the cards this year. With that, I need some out of the box thinking, so here's the situation. Ideally I would like a larger panel to run a 100 amp subpanel to the garage (50' run) to install an electric car charger, and to have room to add runs in the basement. Plan B was to add a 100 amp subpanel next to the main, transfer over a few runs from the main (install surge protection to the panel) then run another 100 amp subpanel to the garage (this just seemed messy). So I'm thinking my third option could be to repurpose an existing run. So here are my questions.

1. I have a gas dryer, and enough wire length to make this happen, can I disconnect my dryer 10/3 14-30R and reroute that run to the garage and install a NEMA 14-30R in the garage, and pass inspection? (I recall reading at ESA that a dryer run is required to comply with code. If so, can I consider the garage receptacle as just that?)

2. If I don't need a 14-30R, can I upgrade my breaker to a 50 amp, my wire to 6/3+ (or 2/3 for future proofing for the eventual 100amp sunpanel), and run that straight to a 14-50 outlet in the garage? Yes, I know 3awg would suffice, but I want to mitigate any voltage drop/heat over the 50'

I hope I haven't missed anything...?

Thanks in advance!
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Oct 31, 2002
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Waterloo
I have a question regarding GFCI requirements on balconies. I recently moved into a new condo and there is an electrical outlet on the balcony (I'm on the 14th floor). The outlet is encased in a weatherproof box however is not a GFCI outlet. Since it is outdoors in a wet location, is it required to have a GFCI outlet?
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Dec 11, 2004
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Ironballz wrote:
Nov 19th, 2019 7:05 am
I have a question regarding GFCI requirements on balconies. I recently moved into a new condo and there is an electrical outlet on the balcony (I'm on the 14th floor). The outlet is encased in a weatherproof box however is not a GFCI outlet. Since it is outdoors in a wet location, is it required to have a GFCI outlet?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong... But I believe if you have a GFCI somewhere up the line (towards the panel), any outlet downstream (further down the line from the panel) is protected. You could check by testing/tripping your other GFCI outlets and then seeing if the outside plug works. As well, most new panels should have GFCI breakers, so you can see if that outlet is connected to one of those.

If I'm wrong, I'll edit my response so I don't spread incorrect info.
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Stoney Creek, ON
Raven668 wrote:
Nov 19th, 2019 8:21 am
Someone correct me if I'm wrong... But I believe if you have a GFCI somewhere up the line (towards the panel), any outlet downstream (further down the line from the panel) is protected. You could check by testing/tripping your other GFCI outlets and then seeing if the outside plug works. As well, most new panels should have GFCI breakers, so you can see if that outlet is connected to one of those.

If I'm wrong, I'll edit my response so I don't spread incorrect info.
You are correct that an upstream can protect a downstream receptacle if wired correctly from the LOAD side of the upstream GFCI receptacle. However given it is a condo the only likely other GFCI receptacles would be bathroom and possibly kitchen which are not supposed to be a shared circuit with your outdoor receptacles so I don't think this will be the case.

As for GFCI breakers you can check for that but a GFCI breaker with regular receptacle is much more expensive than normal breaker + GFCI receptacle so it is not super common. It's also less convenient for a homeowner when the GFCI trips.

Having said that I haven't really done work on condos so I'm not sure what the code is for a balcony receptacle. It's technically well above ground level so I want to say it probably is acceptable to be a standard receptacle as I assume your balcony can't really have standing/pooling water. If I get a chance later today I'll take a look at the code and see if I can find something about it.

Having said that if you feel uncomfortable with a standard receptacle it's quick and easy, also not very expensive to just swap to a GFCI receptacle. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have one.
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Oct 19, 2008
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Whitby
ChicoQuente wrote:
Nov 19th, 2019 9:00 am
Having said that if you feel uncomfortable with a standard receptacle it's quick and easy, also not very expensive to just swap to a GFCI receptacle. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have one.
He might be doing that receptacle swap hot as the balcony outlet probably isn't on a circuit on the condo's panel. Joking aside, balconies are common elements on condo buildings....the strata will have it written up as exclusive use common element or similar-in most cases condo owners don't own their balcony. That outlet might be on a circuit with other balconies and powered by the building common panel.
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Jun 21, 2003
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Zamboni wrote:
Nov 19th, 2019 10:00 am
He might be doing that receptacle swap hot as the balcony outlet probably isn't on a circuit on the condo's panel. Joking aside, balconies are common elements on condo buildings....the strata will have it written up as exclusive use common element or similar-in most cases condo owners don't own their balcony. That outlet might be on a circuit with other balconies and powered by the building common panel.
Good to know. I had no idea that was the case. I've done minimal work in condos and never owned one myself.
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Oct 31, 2002
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Waterloo
Zamboni wrote:
Nov 19th, 2019 10:00 am
He might be doing that receptacle swap hot as the balcony outlet probably isn't on a circuit on the condo's panel. Joking aside, balconies are common elements on condo buildings....the strata will have it written up as exclusive use common element or similar-in most cases condo owners don't own their balcony. That outlet might be on a circuit with other balconies and powered by the building common panel.
Correct, there is no breaker panel in our unit and I appreciate all the info. I will check with building management to ensure we are ok.
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Jul 23, 2004
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Montreal
Raven668 wrote:
Nov 16th, 2019 10:41 pm
What a plethora of information. Thanks to all who have contributed so far!!

After some lurking I have a few questions... But before that, here's some background.
200 amp panel
Completely full (small NOVA panel)
Unfinished basement

The long term plan is to upgrade the panel for more space, but for reasons it is not in the cards this year. With that, I need some out of the box thinking, so here's the situation. Ideally I would like a larger panel to run a 100 amp subpanel to the garage (50' run) to install an electric car charger, and to have room to add runs in the basement. Plan B was to add a 100 amp subpanel next to the main, transfer over a few runs from the main (install surge protection to the panel) then run another 100 amp subpanel to the garage (this just seemed messy). So I'm thinking my third option could be to repurpose an existing run. So here are my questions.

1. I have a gas dryer, and enough wire length to make this happen, can I disconnect my dryer 10/3 14-30R and reroute that run to the garage and install a NEMA 14-30R in the garage, and pass inspection? (I recall reading at ESA that a dryer run is required to comply with code. If so, can I consider the garage receptacle as just that?)

2. If I don't need a 14-30R, can I upgrade my breaker to a 50 amp, my wire to 6/3+ (or 2/3 for future proofing for the eventual 100amp sunpanel), and run that straight to a 14-50 outlet in the garage? Yes, I know 3awg would suffice, but I want to mitigate any voltage drop/heat over the 50'

I hope I haven't missed anything...?

Thanks in advance!
I think your first option is the easiest and I don't consider it messy...
Keep your existing panel (is there anything wrong with apart from the fact that it is too small?).

Add a subpanel right next to your main panel, connect it by using a 100A breaker in the main panel, move some circuits to the new subpanel.
(I've seen online that Cutler Hammer BR breakers are recommended for you panel; double check the info.)

Then run whatever wire you want to a new subpanel in your garage which you can use for an electric car and anything else.

I've got pretty much the same setup at home:
200A main panel
100A subpanel fed with a 100A breaker and 3/3 CU wire
subpanel in the garage fed with a 60A breaker and 6/3 CU wire
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Jr. Member
Oct 30, 2009
121 posts
64 upvotes
Milton
For ESA final inspection (basement), does washroom vanity & kitchen sink + cabinet need to be in place? Or just drywall were up and painted is enough?
Jr. Member
Jul 30, 2018
110 posts
70 upvotes
I'd like to add outlets for my bidets and additional gfci outlets next to the existing ones. The problem is that that the rooms all have tiled walls and it doesn't look like there's an easy way to pull power from adjacent rooms

Any idea how much to expect to pay? Should I expect damage to the wall? If not, is this something a licensed electrician would be insured against?
Newbie
Nov 12, 2019
4 posts
Is it ok to leave a few feet of nmd90 Inside the wall? It will be going into a junction box in cabinet and I thought it would be easier for the future home owner if they want to move the j box rather than add another connector or run an entire new cable to breaker panel

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