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December time...time for Air Conditioner talk (prices going up 20% due to copper???)

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  • Dec 19th, 2006 4:36 pm
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[OP]
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Jun 8, 2001
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Ottawa

December time...time for Air Conditioner talk (prices going up 20% due to copper???)

Here are my two options for an AC. Thoughts would be appreciated by those who know the units.

Option #1 - Harding
Amana 13024
2 ton
13 seer
$2350 + GST = $2491
includes 10 year warantee

Option #2 - Private Company
Keeprite 13 seer with r410A
2 ton
includes 5 year warantee
$2250 (taxes in)

The Harding guys told me the prices on all ACs are going up 20% in the next two weeks due to the price of copper increasing. I don't like those pushy sales tactics...

The private company (can't remember the name), seems good to - but I don't know about keeprite...

Are the prices that cheaper in the winter compared to the summer?

Thoughts?
17 replies
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
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I work for an HVAC company and that is not a lie. A sales tactic sure but why do you think he's there? IT is reality. copper is getting stupid expensive. Do you have an existing unit? Just want to make sure casue if you do you shuold get a 14 seer becasue you will be eligible for a $500 rebate and the price difference between a 13 and a 14 isn't that much.

My company sells Amana. They are good I can tell you that. On the other hand, I have a keeprite AC too, and it's great. I bought it before I worked for the company I do now. Pricing seems VERY reasonable too.

As for when to buy, not a huge difference. They won't be able to fully isntall the unit in these temps but will come uot to charge the line in the spring. Smart man going R410A. I still get people trying to save a buck and it's insane.
[OP]
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Jun 8, 2001
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nighthawk26 wrote:
Dec 18th, 2006 11:18 am
I work for an HVAC company and that is not a lie. A sales tactic sure but why do you think he's there? IT is reality. copper is getting stupid expensive. Do you have an existing unit? Just want to make sure casue if you do you shuold get a 14 seer becasue you will be eligible for a $500 rebate and the price difference between a 13 and a 14 isn't that much.

My company sells Amana. They are good I can tell you that. On the other hand, I have a keeprite AC too, and it's great. I bought it before I worked for the company I do now. Pricing seems VERY reasonable too.

As for when to buy, not a huge difference. They won't be able to fully isntall the unit in these temps but will come uot to charge the line in the spring. Smart man going R410A. I still get people trying to save a buck and it's insane.
I freakin' love rfd!

thanks for the detailed post nighthawk...now, with everything you have said, should i be concerned that Amana is offering a 10 year warantee while Keeprite is only offering a 5 year??

Other than that, I think I am leaning towards keeprite. should i get a 14 seer keeprite instead of the 13 seer r410a?

p.s. it's a brand new home and i don't have existing ac unit
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Jun 11, 2001
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WTF! 20% increase!!! I'm on the lookout for one as well... I guess I should get going now!
...zzz...zzz...zzz...

www.heatware.com
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Dec 15, 2006
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skanji wrote:
Dec 18th, 2006 11:22 am
I freakin' love rfd!

thanks for the detailed post nighthawk...now, with everything you have said, should i be concerned that Amana is offering a 10 year warantee while Keeprite is only offering a 5 year??

Other than that, I think I am leaning towards keeprite. should i get a 14 seer keeprite instead of the 13 seer r410a?

p.s. it's a brand new home and i don't have existing ac unit
No need for concern. Both companies offer a 5 year warranty through the manufacturer. The extra 5 is likely coming from the company doing the install for you. You SHOULD not have any problems with the keeprite, it is a quality product. Essentially made by Carrier.

As for the seer, nope stick with the 13 then. Difference in energy savigns will be VERY minimal. NOT enough to justify the price difference.

Now as for 20%. I'm not sure thats 100% accurate, and if it is it's surely not only becasue of the copper. Other factors are there.
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Mar 21, 2006
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Anything copper is going up. Electrical and data wire are now much more compared to last year. Last year a box of cat5 cost me about 20% less.
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Jan 16, 2003
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How about noise? There's nothing worse than a loud AC... which brand is recommended? And for the installation, is the 90 degrees brackets better than putting it on a slab?


Some prices from 2005 that I found on a the hawthorne village forum (it was for a group buy)
GOODMAN 12 SEER CLJ
Part No. / Model No. / Decription / Price
01555 / CLJ18-UC29 / 1 1/2 TON UNIT & 2 COIL / $1,699.00
01620 / CLJ24-UC32 / 2 TON UNIT & 2 1/2 COIL / $1,799.00
01710 / CLJ30-UC35 / 2 1/2 TON UNIT & 3 TON COIL / $1,899.00
01885 / CLJ36-UC36 / 3 TON UNIT & 3.5 TON COIL / $2,099.00
02100 / CLJ42-UC42 / 3 1/2 TON UNIT & 4 COIL / $2,399.00
02320 / CLJ48-UC47 / 4 TON UNIT & 4 TON COIL / $2,599.00
02590 / CLJ60-UC60 / 5 TON UNIT & 5 TON COIL / $2,799.00
All prices include: Installation with 20 ft. of powerline and lineset, Heat/cool thermostat (If necessary) and slab, Add $50.00 for coils 1/2 ton larger than unit, 10 YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY


GOODMAN 13 SEER CLT (SCROLL)
Part No. / Model No. / Decription / Price
01840 / CLT24-UC32 / 2 TON UNIT & 2.5 TON COIL / $1,999.00
01910 / CLT30-UC35 / 2.5 TON UNIT & 3 TON COIL / $2,099.00
02085 / CLT36-UC42 / 3 TON UNIT & 3.5 TON COIL / $2,299.00
02370 / CLT42-UC48 / 3.5 TON UNIT & 4 TON COIL / $2,599.00
02570 / CLT48-UC47 / 4 TON UNIT & 4 TON COIL / $2,799.00
02770 / CLT60-UC60 / 5 TON UNIT & 5 TON COIL / $2,999.00
All prices include: Installation with 20 ft. of powerline and lineset, Heat/cool thermostat (If necessary) and slab, Add $50.00 for coils 1/2 ton larger than unit, LIFETIME LIMITED WARRANTY

GOODMAN 14 SEER CLQ HIGH EFFICIENCY
Part No. / Model No. / Decription / Price
01900 / CLQ24-UC32 / 2 TON UNIT & 2.5 TON COIL / $2,099.00
02010 / CLQ30-UC35 / 2.5 TON UNIT & 3 TON COIL / $2,199.00
02300 / CLQ36-UC42 / 3 TON UNIT & 3.5 TON COIL / $2,499.00
02550 / CLQ42-UC48 / 3.5 TON UNIT & 4 TON COIL / $2,799.00
02670 / CLQ48-UC47 / 4 TON UNIT & 4 TON COIL / $2,899.00
02850 / CLQ60-UC60 / 5 TON UNIT & 5 TON COIL / $3,099.00
All prices include: Installation with 20 ft. of powerline and lineset, Heat/cool thermostat (If necessary) and slab, Add $50.00 for coils 1/2 ton larger than unit, LIFETIME LIMITED WARRANTY

Would it be a good idea to have coils larger than unit?
Sr. Member
Jul 8, 2004
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GTA
Sorry may I please squeeze in this little help?

What is a good tonnage for a home thats about 1700 sqft?
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
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mart242 wrote:
Dec 18th, 2006 3:40 pm
How about noise? There's nothing worse than a loud AC... which brand is recommended? And for the installation, is the 90 degrees brackets better than putting it on a slab?


Some prices from 2005 that I found on a the hawthorne village forum (it was for a group buy)



Would it be a good idea to have coils larger than unit?
The goodman is made by Amana. Not a bad unit for the money. As for the brackets. Some will argue they can cause vibration in the wall which is true. I don't recommend it to people unless they have a sloped ground level.
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Dec 15, 2006
1867 posts
148 upvotes
atb1o1 wrote:
Dec 18th, 2006 4:01 pm
Sorry may I please squeeze in this little help?

What is a good tonnage for a home thats about 1700 sqft?
Rule of thumb. 1 ton for every 1000 sq ft. But from house to house can varry a little. At that size I'm about 90% sure you'd want a 2 ton.
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1867 posts
148 upvotes
mart242 wrote:
Dec 18th, 2006 3:40 pm
How about noise? There's nothing worse than a loud AC... which brand is recommended? And for the installation, is the 90 degrees brackets better than putting it on a slab?


Some prices from 2005 that I found on a the hawthorne village forum (it was for a group buy)



Would it be a good idea to have coils larger than unit?
Also, those prices are fantastic. DON"T expect those. Actually looking again you made no mention if they are R22 units or R410A units? At that price i'd imagine R22. They haev gone up considerably.

As for size, every condensor has a matching A, coil. NO you should not oversize ever. Doing so removes too much humidity (effectivly how an AC cools a house) too quickly and the unit won't run long enoguh to actually cool the house. Sizing is important

o some reseach on R22 and 410A. Come 2010, you will nto be able to obtain R22 refrigerent which means you will have a dificult to impossible time servicing the unit and you can't mix the refrigerents which means time to buy a 410A unit. Make sense? Thats a VERY coles notes version, but be aware of some vendors trying to unload these. IF thats what you want fine, just be aware.
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Jan 16, 2003
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nighthawk26 wrote:
Dec 18th, 2006 9:55 pm
Come 2010, you will nto be able to obtain R22 refrigerent which means you will have a dificult to impossible time servicing the unit and you can't mix the refrigerents which means time to buy a 410A unit.
Excellent point and info you're bringing. I think that I'll definitely go for a 410A unit. And yes, I am not expecting the same prices I posted but it gives a rough baseline.

You appear to have a lot of knowledge on that subject. When do you think that the best time to buy is ? Now? Wait till new models are out this winter?
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1867 posts
148 upvotes
To be totally honest I've had this job for only 7 months. Haven't seen a full year of price changes yet so I can't say for certain. However, with the rising price of copper it would stand to reason new models will be more money. They aren't like TV's it's not like there is going to be some great new feature you have to have! NO HD AC you know! :) Fine a brand you know with a scroll compressor in a 13 seer, (unless a steal comes up on a 14 seer), in a R410A and you should be good to go!
Deal Fanatic
Jan 16, 2003
6243 posts
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nighthawk,

based on the prices quotes above, seer 13 -> seer 14 is only 100$... isn't it worth it?
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Jul 8, 2004
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GTA
nighthawk26 wrote:
Dec 18th, 2006 9:52 pm
Rule of thumb. 1 ton for every 1000 sq ft. But from house to house can varry a little. At that size I'm about 90% sure you'd want a 2 ton.
Thanks nighthawk26! If you don't mind a few more AC related question :)

When purchasing a central AC, does the price include installation? If not, what am I looking at as an estimation?

I would assume making holes in the wall will be necessary and indoor piping? As well as integration with existing Heat/cooling panel?

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