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Locked: Decline of Off Topic

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  • Aug 3rd, 2017 9:39 am
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Supercooled wrote:
Jul 8th, 2017 7:50 pm
It's called Off Topic, let it be off topic. The incessant need to moderate it beyond what is acceptable decorum is excessive. Provided people are not cursing and attacking people on a personal level, there should be no need to moderate that section. I'm quite frankly sick of getting my threads locked for so-called low content because a certain moderator doesn't agree it's 'stimulating' enough. There is a feature that lets users make it disappear from their view, let it do its job.
This pisses me off. low content and stupid threads is what makes a forum succeed. It builds a community… It builds discourse and conversation. It builds people who are attached to the site and will ensure it prospers.

Instead? Yellow pages takes over RFD. They just rape and pillage the years community building the original RFD did…
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lubmar wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 4:35 pm
+1
there are a few members that are using those so often (if not always) ...
Please provide direct post URLs for these and I will deal with it where possible.
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UrbanPoet wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 8:30 pm
This pisses me off. low content and stupid threads is what makes a forum succeed. It builds a community… It builds discourse and conversation. It builds people who are attached to the site and will ensure it prospers.

Instead? Yellow pages takes over RFD. They just rape and pillage the years community building the original RFD did…

There are unfortunately too many immature people on this site to support conversation and discourse. And with as many people that fit the aforementioned categories, there are an equal amount of "crybabies" on here who insist on reporting every little thing in OT, stuff that I'd normally let go if it wasn't reported.
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WorldIRC wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 8:37 pm
There are unfortunately too many immature people on this site to support conversation and discourse. And with as many people that fit the aforementioned categories, there are an equal amount of "crybabies" on here who insist on reporting every little thing in OT, stuff that I'd normally let go if it wasn't reported.
Maybe the rules should be amended to include examples of what should be reported and what shouldn't or doesn't need to be reported?
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Ojam wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 8:55 pm
Maybe the rules should be amended to include examples of what should be reported and what shouldn't or doesn't need to be reported?
Wrt to the OT, it is too challenging as it varies. The community should use common sense in OT. Reporting every time someone says "shit" is really a waste of resources unless someone is calling someone a piece of "shit" (in my opinion). The OT really needs to begin self regulating.
Only the most egregious of offences or blatant forum violations that would disrupt flow of business are really the kinds of reports we want to see from OT. Of course, I can't tell someone not to report something that is against our general rules, we really would prefer to be more "lax" in the OT if possible.
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WorldIRC wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 9:27 pm
Wrt to the OT, it is too challenging as it varies. The community should use common sense in OT. Reporting every time someone says "shit" is really a waste of resources unless someone is calling someone a piece of "shit" (in my opinion). The OT really needs to begin self regulating.
Only the most egregious of offences or blatant forum violations that would disrupt flow of business are really the kinds of reports we want to see from OT. Of course, I can't tell someone not to report something that is against our general rules, we really would prefer to be more "lax" in the OT if possible.
Here's a novel idea; why not ignore those meritless reporting? What's worse than "immature" people are those who try to sterilize this site by reporting every nuanced offence like the example you gave. As a moderator, you are facilitating the decline of OT by caving in to them. That certain mod who keeps locking my threads once said it gets locked because people keep reporting it and I've always been of the opinion that if you don't like what someone has to say, ignore it. Someone at RFD agrees and programmed that very function into the forum. Now let them use it.

What's the saying about trolls? IF you ignore them, they will go away.

There's nothing to gain from shutting down a thread for low content. Like UrbanPoet said, it helps keep that corner of the forum active. And like I said, provided everyone remains respectful, there is no need to shut down a thread. It will die off in due course, as it should.

Collectively, the mods need to agree on a standard. You guys tried a political forum and didn't want too much controversy. If OT is such a problem, shut it down, too. Keep business, business. There's a fair bit of OT going on in Hot Deals anyway with people commenting like "Oh I wish I had a time machine" for prices from years past, etc.

Seriously, either have OT or don't have it at all. Draw a line in the sand already.
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Supercooled wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 10:25 pm
Here's a novel idea; why not ignore those meritless reporting? What's worse than "immature" people are those who try to sterilize this site by reporting every nuanced offence like the example you gave. As a moderator, you are facilitating the decline of OT by caving in to them. That certain mod who keeps locking my threads once said it gets locked because people keep reporting it and I've always been of the opinion that if you don't like what someone has to say, ignore it. Someone at RFD agrees and programmed that very function into the forum. Now let them use it.

What's the saying about trolls? IF you ignore them, they will go away.

There's nothing to gain from shutting down a thread for low content. Like UrbanPoet said, it helps keep that corner of the forum active. And like I said, provided everyone remains respectful, there is no need to shut down a thread. It will die off in due course, as it should.

Collectively, the mods need to agree on a standard. You guys tried a political forum and didn't want too much controversy. If OT is such a problem, shut it down, too. Keep business, business. There's a fair bit of OT going on in Hot Deals anyway with people commenting like "Oh I wish I had a time machine" for prices from years past, etc.

Seriously, either have OT or don't have it at all. Draw a line in the sand already.
Unfortunately we still have to close those "meritless" reports. If I close them as "no action taken" then it simply triggers some members PMing questioning our decisions. It's a nasty circle.

As for my wishes of the OT forum, I've made them clear. Doubt the admins will do any more at this point. The OT generates lots of traffic which = ad revenue for the site.
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The Omar Khadr thread seems to be a good example of left vs right going around in endless circles. Did we need it? DEFINITE YES. It absolutely deserves to be discussed. But after almost 500 posts and thirty-something pages, all arguments have been heard, all lines have been drawn. I posted twice in the thread and that's it, I've had my say. Is there really anything else to add that will magically change anyone's mind? To me, it just feels like two enemies out of ammo reduced to taking pot shots at each other.
Last edited by DiceMan on Jul 10th, 2017 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DiceMan wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 10:59 pm
The Omar Khadr thread seems to be a good example of left vs right going around in endless circles. Did we need it? DEFINITE YES. It absolutely deserves to be discussed. But after almost 500 posts and thirty-something pages, all arguments have been heard, all lines have been drawn. I posted twice in the thread and that's it, I've had my say. Is there really anything else to add that will magically change anyone's mind? To me, it just feels like two enemies out of ammo reduced to taking pot shots at each other.
This topic has obviously been a very dividing topic for Canadians and others abroad. I agree that it is an important discussion to have, but likewise, all arguments have likely been heard and now most people will be moving around in circles. Most will likely not change the opinions of others, but still, it is important to discuss it. That is one of the privileges of being Canada. However, taking pot shots at each other is not conducive to good discussion; however, we as a community need to determine how far we go with moderation when situations like these happen. Do we remove posts where someone is calling someone a "libtard" or do we simply ask the community to grow a back-bone and use the ignore function or ask the user why they feel the need to start calling others names. We were certainly taught to use our words when we were kids, I don't see why that can't apply here. Pending that, if it still didn't work, ignore function (or report if the personal attacks are getting out of hand).
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WorldIRC wrote:
Jul 11th, 2017 8:37 am
This topic has obviously been a very dividing topic for Canadians and others abroad. I agree that it is an important discussion to have, but likewise, all arguments have likely been heard and now most people will be moving around in circles. Most will likely not change the opinions of others, but still, it is important to discuss it. That is one of the privileges of being Canada. However, taking pot shots at each other is not conducive to good discussion; however, we as a community need to determine how far we go with moderation when situations like these happen. Do we remove posts where someone is calling someone a "libtard" or do we simply ask the community to grow a back-bone and use the ignore function or ask the user why they feel the need to start calling others names. We were certainly taught to use our words when we were kids, I don't see why that can't apply here. Pending that, if it still didn't work, ignore function (or report if the personal attacks are getting out of hand).
I like your "open approach" to the OT "moderation" ... pls. stick around ... a little change (openness) would be beneficial ...
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lubmar wrote:
Jul 11th, 2017 9:46 am
I like your "open approach" to the OT "moderation" ... pls. stick around ... a little change (openness) would be beneficial ...
Agreed. I was not pushing for tighter moderation in OT as I believe that thread is important and should be discussed. I just wish there was a little more of that "self moderation" evident. Now the shots are down to who's a "xyz groupie" and "poster is full of s**t" type classiness. Sadly, for such a divisive topic, people (including me) have strong feelings on the subject and frustrations can easily escalate.
Last edited by DiceMan on Jul 11th, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lubmar wrote:
Jul 11th, 2017 9:46 am
I like your "open approach" to the OT "moderation" ... pls. stick around ... a little change (openness) would be beneficial ...
I've always tried my best to maintain openness when it comes to how I do things around here. I've been a part of this community for a long-time, my goal is to help make that experience better for everyone. We won't always see eye to eye on everything (not even within the mod group), but what's important is maintaining the dialogue to continue improvements across the site.
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WorldIRC wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 8:37 pm
There are unfortunately too many immature people on this site to support conversation and discourse. And with as many people that fit the aforementioned categories, there are an equal amount of "crybabies" on here who insist on reporting every little thing in OT, stuff that I'd normally let go if it wasn't reported.
Crybabies? That's how you want to describe individuals who take to following RFD's own posted rules?
WorldIRC wrote:
Jul 10th, 2017 9:27 pm
Wrt to the OT, it is too challenging as it varies. The community should use common sense in OT. Reporting every time someone says "shit" is really a waste of resources unless someone is calling someone a piece of "shit" (in my opinion). The OT really needs to begin self regulating.
Only the most egregious of offences or blatant forum violations that would disrupt flow of business are really the kinds of reports we want to see from OT. Of course, I can't tell someone not to report something that is against our general rules, we really would prefer to be more "lax" in the OT if possible.
Perhaps you mods in your special little mod forum can come to an agreed-upon standard and learn to be consistent in enforcing your rules and giving edits/warnings/infractions.

Because certainly NOT the "most egregious of offences" or "blatant forum violations" have been used by various mods to target specific users and punish them. I have witnessed all kinds of stupid and heavy-handed moderation over petty, debatable slights...and meanwhile when users have pointed out how the same sort of offences litter the rest of the forum yet are ignored or untouched, the only response is to tell us to "Use the Report Button." It's clearly a problem stemming from inconsistent enforcement of vague, broad forum rules. A lot of it indeed looks like personal grudges by certain mods.

So, unless you mods can be consistent and clear and fair in your approach, way to call the rest of the users "crybabies" when we point out the inconsistency and deal with it by doing what we're told to do.
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peanutz wrote:
Jul 11th, 2017 4:15 pm
Crybabies? That's how you want to describe individuals who take to following RFD's own posted rules?

Perhaps you mods in your special little mod forum can come to an agreed-upon standard and learn to be consistent in enforcing your rules and giving edits/warnings/infractions.

Because certainly NOT the "most egregious of offences" or "blatant forum violations" have been used by various mods to target specific users and punish them. I have witnessed all kinds of stupid and heavy-handed moderation over petty, debatable slights...and meanwhile when users have pointed out how the same sort of offences litter the rest of the forum yet are ignored or untouched, the only response is to tell us to "Use the Report Button." It's clearly a problem stemming from inconsistent enforcement of vague, broad forum rules. A lot of it indeed looks like personal grudges by certain mods.

So, unless you mods can be consistent and clear and fair in your approach, way to call the rest of the users "crybabies" when we point out the inconsistency and deal with it by doing what we're told to do.
The forum rules were written as a general guideline for the community to follow and they eventually turned into the rules. The mods use these rules for enforcement but also are permitted to use their personal judgement when it comes to making decisions. We are not police and are not bound by "written law". Unfortunately in a forum environment with a community as vast as RFDs, you will not ever see 100% consistency in moderation and sometimes on the fly calls need to be made (or take it back to the team for discussion). If you think that certain users have been targeted by mods, I'd encourage you to send a PM to Tom so that he can investigate further. While we cannot be 100% consistent in our moderation, there is always oversight by the administration to make sure our actions are within the spirit of our mandate. So again, if you think someone is unfairly being targeted, please bring to Tom's attention so that he and the other admins can review accordingly for you.

As for my crybaby remarks...we literally have users that spends hours every day reporting posts for the most mundane things. Again, not saying there is anything necessarily wrong reporting posts, but many people in the community complain that moderation response time is slow or that we were to hard handed on one thing, or too light handed on another. When I receive 2 dozen reports within an hour, from a single user, that doesn't like that someone used the word "shit" in the OT section to literally describe dog-crap, it becomes tough to take those reports seriously. I get that swearing and bypassing the filter are not allowed, but seriously, there has to be more important things to do in one's day than to report posts that don't have any real impact in daily life.

As for the rules, they are vague. As I mentioned, they were guidelines that got turned into rules that left room for interpretation by both mods and members alike. Some may like it, and some may not. I doubt it'll change. All I can hope is that the community, especially in OT, learns to act civilly, learn to self-moderate, and cut out all the insults, bashing, libtard alt-right nonsense, or the community may end up seeing tighter guidelines and moderation that in turn makes the OT a place to not want to visit.
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RFD-OT flaming has gone so out of hand that currently TomRFD is doing some of the moderation. Geez... what a waste of resources in an unproductive task: having an expensive employee doing menial tasks that are usually done by (unpaid) volunteers. Task mostly unnecessary if these infractors were purged from the forums or had their posting privileges rescinded at their first offense of this kind. In an analogy to a hospital, it's like having a busy surgeon carrying out orderly duties.

Here's one example of the typical exchanges if the moderation is lax ('you're an immature person' vs. "you are a terrorist sympathizer / terrorism supporter") -- not the only instance of this exchange in OT, just a random pick.

...
Last edited by MrDisco on Jul 11th, 2017 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: let's keep this about the topic and not about individuals
yare yare daze...

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