Shopping Discussion

Deliveries left on doorstep

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  • Mar 26th, 2019 12:38 pm
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Sr. Member
Dec 18, 2017
519 posts
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London, On
OP says he used to be a courier and would never leave a package without a signature. Times have changed. The shippers are the ones telling the courier companies to leave packages. Amazon especially. You want free shipping, Amazon wants to pay as little as possible for shipping since they aren't recouping any of that from the customer. Courier company says "we can shave some cost off those shipping charges if we can get our drivers to make it up on volume." and Amazon says "Ok, just leave the packages at the door without taking the time to get a signature". Drivers can do probably 20-30% more residential deliveries by not needing signatures or having to fill out tags. And way more people complain about having a tag left on their door and have to go get their package than complain about packages being left on their front step. You also have the option of having the package sent to some place else, like a workplace.
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djeffery wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 9:52 am
OP says he used to be a courier and would never leave a package without a signature. Times have changed. The shippers are the ones telling the courier companies to leave packages. Amazon especially. You want free shipping, Amazon wants to pay as little as possible for shipping since they aren't recouping any of that from the customer. Courier company says "we can shave some cost off those shipping charges if we can get our drivers to make it up on volume." and Amazon says "Ok, just leave the packages at the door without taking the time to get a signature". Drivers can do probably 20-30% more residential deliveries by not needing signatures or having to fill out tags. And way more people complain about having a tag left on their door and have to go get their package than complain about packages being left on their front step. You also have the option of having the package sent to some place else, like a workplace.
There are delivery types that are paid for where a signature is required by the sender and still being left, so the problem extends beyond senders who opt for a non signature required delivery.

Regarding people complaining about pick up cards being left when they're not home, that is beside the point and irrelevant to drivers leaving valuable packages outside without signatures on deliveries requiring a signature.

As for delivery elsewhere/work, it is not an option for some, inconvenient for others, and still inconvenient for more people that now need to accept these deliveries. Work deliveries are also unprofessional unless it's a rare occurrence if they are allowed.
Last edited by bombdiggity on Jan 11th, 2019 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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May 23, 2003
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Suggestion, if you have a Penguin Pickup location close by I highly recommend it. I use it for all of my package deliveries -

https://www.penguinpickup.com/

It is a free service, they give you a code that you add to your package delivery in addition to any of their addresses for pickup spots.

Also, Amazon and a lot of other retailers let you hold packages pickup points outside of this. I find the Penguin Pickup is a good option for me as there is never any lines at my location but I know sometimes Canada Post is busy so I don't use their flex delivery.
Sr. Member
Dec 24, 2011
641 posts
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bombdiggity wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 8:06 am
This is nonsense. It takes seconds and most have cards readied before hand to leave if needed. They're just lazy and don't want to carry it and bring the package back to the truck.

Even if there's a reason now why they can't, then remove it as part of the service they are selling. Simple.
*

These companies offers e-mail/text alerts, pick-up, and other options. It's a service that allows us to sit on our asses, click a few buttons, and have the item delivered to our door. If you're worried about the package getting stolen, do something about it.
Last edited by MrDisco on Jan 12th, 2019 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: unnecessary
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cstriker045 wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 2:01 pm
*

These companies offers e-mail/text alerts, pick-up, and other options. It's a service that allows us to sit on our asses, click a few buttons, and have the item delivered to our door. If you're worried about the package getting stolen, do something about it.

*. Just because you don't have an issue about things doesn't mean everybody else who pays for a service shouldn't be upset at people who refuse to do their jobs properly. Yes, it's everybody else's fault when these people decide to leave packages meant for a signature to be stolen, thereby causing headaches for both the sender and the customer.

* If you disagree that laziness is the reason why these couriers are leaving packages instead of bringing them back for second attempts the next day and to pick up locations like they're supposed to be doing, then say so. *

*
Last edited by MrDisco on Jan 12th, 2019 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: quote was edited
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I'd also like to point out this gem from somebody who is not making themselves out to look like a fool
These companies offers e-mail/text alerts, pick-up, and other options
Yes, signature required after an attempt to ring/knock is one such "option" genius :facepalm:
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Feb 13, 2015
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ratatapa wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 6:56 pm
People are always gonna bitch

Company left package on doorstep. People will say. BUT IT MIGHT GET STOLEN
Company leave a note asking you to go pick it up, then people will bitch they have to move to get their package that they order to get at your house


Damn if you do damn if you don't
Rofl wut? Most of us who order things are grown and responsible and know how to drive a short distance to pick up our parcel to the nearest drop off point. Why would anyone want their package left on their doorstep without their permission? Especially if said people live in an apartment building. 2 years ago ordered a package from amazon and waited for like 2 weeks patiently for it, until decided to check tracking again to realize it was delivered a while ago, apparently he safe dropped infront my door and the package was obviously stolen. Good thing it was only worth like 15-20$
😎Thanks RFD😎
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Dec 20, 2018
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Live in a condo, problem solved

Or deliver it to work
Sr. Member
Dec 18, 2017
519 posts
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London, On
blackbirdman wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 8:30 pm
Rofl wut? Most of us who order things are grown and responsible and know how to drive a short distance to pick up our parcel to the nearest drop off point. Why would anyone want their package left on their doorstep without their permission? Especially if said people live in an apartment building. 2 years ago ordered a package from amazon and waited for like 2 weeks patiently for it, until decided to check tracking again to realize it was delivered a while ago, apparently he safe dropped infront my door and the package was obviously stolen. Good thing it was only worth like 15-20$
If you are ordering from Amazon, they tell the courier companies to leave the packages without a signature, that's how they get the low cost shipping that they do.
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Sep 10, 2007
315 posts
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Toronto
I walked down the hall on my way back to my apartment one day last week, and saw an Amazon package at a neighbour's doorstep. I just shook my head, because that had happened to me before. Luckily I checked when at an office, and rushed home to get it at lunch hour. I deliberately made sure that never had that option (to drop it off like that) selected in my account. I contacted Amazon about it and they made sure it never happened again.

With Amazon, I just get items delivered by Canada Post to Shoppers Drug Mart up the street from me now. I have a few of those SDM post office addresses in my account to choose from, depending on where I am in the city when I'm not home. I get the Amazon email notice, print it, get it scanned at pick-up and take the item home. I do the same with other vendors. It may not come to my home, but at least I'd know where the heck the item is. I test the delivery options for each order in the shopping cart. If any product shows it cannot be delivered by Canada Post to my selected Post Office address, I don't buy the item. I delete it from my cart and buy it elsewhere.

I am avoiding couriers as much as I can, now.
I can't even trust them when i AM home. I'm sick of the fake "Attempted Delivery" online notices when they never show up near the property, let alone press my intercom #, which is ON my account/address labels. My Caller ID would show it if they did press it. No delivery sticker either.
A number of their drivers skip over delivering to buildings too (and leave it for the next driver or go straight to a convenience store). I had this confirmed by yet another driver (Fed-Ex this time) just over a week ago. He said when he started his shift, he found all the packages for his truck were for residential buildings. He knows what time it is with certain drivers. I also had incidents confirmed with UPS drivers long before, too. I'd contacted both FedEx and UPS and Purolator about this issue.

I'm skipping the lot of 'em. I prefer Canada Post out of the lot now.
pmb

"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt."
~ Henry J. Kaiser
Sr. Member
Dec 18, 2017
519 posts
217 upvotes
London, On
bombdiggity wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 9:59 am
There are delivery types that are paid for where a signature is required by the sender and still being left, so the problem extends beyond senders who opt for a non signature required delivery.

Regarding people complaining about pick up cards being left when they're not home, that is beside the point and irrelevant to drivers leaving valuable packages outside without signatures on deliveries requiring a signature.

As for delivery elsewhere/work, it is not an option for some, inconvenient for others, and still inconvenient for more people that now need to accept these deliveries. Work deliveries are also unprofessional unless it's a rare occurrence if they are allowed.
I agree that packages requiring signatures should never be left. I'm just saying that even though the OP said he used to be a courier and would never leave a package without a signature, the industry has changed a lot in the last several years with many more shippers authorizing shipments being left. Even to the point of some of the meal prep companies saying to leave their shipments in an apartment lobby if the tenant isn't home and the driver can't otherwise gain entrance to the building, because the item is perishable and will be garbage if even a day late. Many people seem to think that all packages should be signed for, unless the receiver themselves wants it left without a signature, and that's simply not the case. Signature required is something that is paid extra for, and not all shippers offer it (Amazon being one).

Your comment about pickup tags isn't in relation to what my comment about them is. Not having to fill them out is all part of the time savings and thus, the lower shipping rate that is available for not needing a signature. In addition to not actually having to handle that package again, either from the driver's case, or the terminal staff who have to try to call the customer to figure out when to redeliver it, or the dock staff who have to load it on a truck again. All those things factor into being able to offer the likes of Amazon a cheap enough rate for them to offer free shipping. Companies that don't authorize no signature delivery pay a higher shipping rate to factor in all those extra costs, including simply the time to wait for someone to answer the door and sign. The tags don't come pre-filled out or anything, and I think the idea that drivers just run up and leave a tag because they are too lazy to take the package is ridiculous since they have to unload the package later, but that's your opinion.


Lots of people get stuff delivered to their workplace. Sure, I wouldn't expect it's ok to have your insta-pot delivered to the receiving department at the Ford plant, but people know whether their workplace is an option.
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djeffery wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 12:02 pm

I agree that packages requiring signatures should never be left. I'm just saying that even though the OP said he used to be a courier and would never leave a package without a signature, the industry has changed a lot in the last several years with many more shippers authorizing shipments being left.
We are on the same page on whether or not signature required packages should be left, and I am aware that non signature required packages are also left. I was addressing what your post seemed to leave out - the issue of couriers leaving signature required packages and often doing so without any attempt at delivering to the intended recipients who were home at the time. Your post was about non signature required packages and the reason for this.
djeffery wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 12:02 pm
Many people seem to think that all packages should be signed for, unless the receiver themselves wants it left without a signature, and that's simply not the case. Signature required is something that is paid extra for, and not all shippers offer it (Amazon being one).
Not disputing that this can be the case, but my concern is only with couriers not doing what they should be doing. Ill-informed recipients are a separate issue and they are not being paid to do the job.
djeffery wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 12:02 pm
Your comment about pickup tags isn't in relation to what my comment about them is. Not having to fill them out is all part of the time savings and thus, the lower shipping rate that is available for not needing a signature.
I see. At least two other members have made arguments that people are upset when packages are not left at the door and they have to go pick them up, so that part of my post would still apply to those.
djeffery wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 12:02 pm
The tags don't come pre-filled out or anything, and I think the idea that drivers just run up and leave a tag because they are too lazy to take the package is ridiculous since they have to unload the package later, but that's your opinion.
It depends on what you mean by pre-filled. What I meant is the cards were completed by hand or with a sticker and ready to be left before they even rang/knocked. Held in their hands. Not to be filled in after nobody received them. And no, this isn't an assumption on possibly empty cards.

EDIT: To clarify, I didn't mean they go up to the door without bringing the package. I meant they bring up the package but don't want to bring it back to the truck or continue carrying it on them as the go to other households for the ones who carrying packages on them as they go on foot down the street.
They're just lazy and don't want to carry it and bring the package back to the truck.
What is your explanation for why couriers safe drop packages that require a signature when they have not obtained a signature, for deliveries where the sender has paid for and requested a signature? This is for cases where you claim they bring the packages to the door. Numerous people have also stated before that delivery attempts are not made while they're home, and a card is left. Most people would conclude it's because they didn't even want to bother bringing the packages up because they already assumed nobody would be home and this would supposedly save them the process of bringing the packages from and back to the truck. Is it your opinion that instead of not bringing the packages to the door, they're doing so only to not ring or knock and leave a card? Do you have an explanation for this scenario?
djeffery wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 12:02 pm
Lots of people get stuff delivered to their workplace. Sure, I wouldn't expect it's ok to have your insta-pot delivered to the receiving department at the Ford plant, but people know whether their workplace is an option.
My post never disputed whether people did this or not. I listed reasons why it wasn't always an easy or even viable alternative for some people. It doesn't work for everybody.
Last edited by bombdiggity on Jan 12th, 2019 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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pmbpro wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 11:53 am
I walked down the hall on my way back to my apartment one day last week, and saw an Amazon package at a neighbour's doorstep. I just shook my head, because that had happened to me before. Luckily I checked when at an office, and rushed home to get it at lunch hour. I deliberately made sure that never had that option (to drop it off like that) selected in my account. I contacted Amazon about it and they made sure it never happened again.

With Amazon, I just get items delivered by Canada Post to Shoppers Drug Mart up the street from me now. I have a few of those SDM post office addresses in my account to choose from, depending on where I am in the city when I'm not home. I get the Amazon email notice, print it, get it scanned at pick-up and take the item home. I do the same with other vendors. It may not come to my home, but at least I'd know where the heck the item is. I test the delivery options for each order in the shopping cart. If any product shows it cannot be delivered by Canada Post to my selected Post Office address, I don't buy the item. I delete it from my cart and buy it elsewhere.

I am avoiding couriers as much as I can, now.
I can't even trust them when i AM home. I'm sick of the fake "Attempted Delivery" online notices when they never show up near the property, let alone press my intercom #, which is ON my account/address labels. My Caller ID would show it if they did press it. No delivery sticker either.
A number of their drivers skip over delivering to buildings too (and leave it for the next driver or go straight to a convenience store). I had this confirmed by yet another driver (Fed-Ex this time) just over a week ago. He said when he started his shift, he found all the packages for his truck were for residential buildings. He knows what time it is with certain drivers. I also had incidents confirmed with UPS drivers long before, too. I'd contacted both FedEx and UPS and Purolator about this issue.

I'm skipping the lot of 'em. I prefer Canada Post out of the lot now.
Same.

But sadly, I can't help but feel like somehow I am losing or giving in by doing this. Amazon orders include "to your door" delivery, and yet their service is so poor that I chose to go to SDM and sometimes wait in a 15 minute lineup just to pick up my packages. That is a huge luxury many people cannot afford (wasted time). Seems like maybe this is Canada Post's goal... to provide such awful service that people go and pick up packages. No doubt in my mind it is far more profitable for them to do it this way.

Also, keep in mind, in many downtown areas this is not a real good option. Someone on here pointed out earlier that in downtown Vancouver some apartment buildings have started refusing all packages (e.g., the concierges have gotten tired of being mailman). Before, the concierges would sign for packages but I guess it's only a matter of time before someone steals something a concierge signed for and chaos ensures. So the end result is that to anyone living in a condo that operates like this they have to get their stuff shipped to the local pick up depot and it has caused 1 hour long waits in some cases.
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adamtheman wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 1:56 pm
Same.

But sadly, I can't help but feel like somehow I am losing or giving in by doing this. Amazon orders include "to your door" delivery, and yet their service is so poor that I chose to go to SDM and sometimes wait in a 15 minute lineup just to pick up my packages. That is a huge luxury many people cannot afford (wasted time). Seems like maybe this is Canada Post's goal... to provide such awful service that people go and pick up packages. No doubt in my mind it is far more profitable for them to do it this way.

Also, keep in mind, in many downtown areas this is not a real good option. Someone on here pointed out earlier that in downtown Vancouver some apartment buildings have started refusing all packages (e.g., the concierges have gotten tired of being mailman). Before, the concierges would sign for packages but I guess it's only a matter of time before someone steals something a concierge signed for and chaos ensures. So the end result is that to anyone living in a condo that operates like this they have to get their stuff shipped to the local pick up depot and it has caused 1 hour long waits in some cases.
Yeah, I totally hear ya on that one -- especially as it as supposed to be 'door-to-door'. They should probably not use that term anymore. The courier mess has happened to me so often over the past few years that I got fed up and realized that since things have changed drastically over the past 10 years as someone pointed out in this thread (re: skyrocketing online retail sales/deliveries), that I had to basically make a choice: chase down packages that get delivered 'anywhere' by the courier that is too far/inconvenient for me and I still have to line up for it anyway, OR... just go to a Post office/SDM that I choose.
If I ever order a large, heavy item, I'd have to bite the bullet and be stuck with a courier and monitor them very closely via customer reps sending specific instruction for the driver to actually show up (i.e. basically 'babysitting' them). But even then, I'd probably just choose a B&M store that has their own delivery service and buy in person. Luckily I don't have or need any big heavy items though.

The driver I'd recently spoken to said the drivers (the company they work for) were subcontractors, especially for these retail-to-consumer deliveries.

I guess we'd all have to make such choices, and as you noted, not everyone has that time luxury to line up (or even location of a pick up spot). I just found, in my individual case, that I'd wasted more time tracing on the phone, and traveling for courier packages, than any post office ones.

Heck, I recall a few years ago that even the UPS Store up the street from me was so swamped and fed up of getting stuff dumped there (for nearby buildings that were skipped, of course :rolleyes: ), that a UPS customer rep told me that some of these franchises complained and had started to refuse such deliveries. A UPS store! I recently went there (for something else) and saw a few small packages behind the counter, but the clerk said it's been nowhere near like it was the few years ago. I suppose that's why there was an increase in convenience stores used in the past year or so as well.

Yes, good point, that the condo/apt concierges are getting swamped too. I'd recently learned there's a company (called 'The Parcel Port') that started a 'Smart Locker' service in business buildings and can offer it in residential ones too, where the courier can deliver to a secure installation in the lobby and you can get notification via phone or email, with a code, enter or scan it on the keypad and get your package. The box automatically opens. No concierge needed. They have an installation in Waterpark Place on Queens Quay, which I saw for myself and worked great. Employees can get packages sent there. Right now only UPS is on board as it's pretty new, but they're trying to get other couriers too. They said it doesn't cost the property managers anything to set up. That could be a potential option for us building-dwellers and employees in buildings, down the road.
pmb

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~ Henry J. Kaiser
[OP]
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I'm sure that the courier companies have actuaries that have determined that payouts for stolen-from-doorstep stuff are still lower than the expenditures required to collect signatures/return-to-depot. But the more stuff people buy online, and the more couriers leave stuff at the doorstep, the more thieves will know that doorsteps are easy pickings, and thefts will increase. Maybe eventually the cost of claims payouts is going to surpass the leave-at-doorstep savings and they'll stop leaving stuff at the doorstep.

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