Shopping Discussion

Deliveries left on doorstep

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  • Jan 15th, 2019 4:51 pm
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adamtheman wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 1:56 pm
Same.

But sadly, I can't help but feel like somehow I am losing or giving in by doing this. Amazon orders include "to your door" delivery, and yet their service is so poor that I chose to go to SDM and sometimes wait in a 15 minute lineup just to pick up my packages. That is a huge luxury many people cannot afford (wasted time). Seems like maybe this is Canada Post's goal... to provide such awful service that people go and pick up packages. No doubt in my mind it is far more profitable for them to do it this way.

Also, keep in mind, in many downtown areas this is not a real good option. Someone on here pointed out earlier that in downtown Vancouver some apartment buildings have started refusing all packages (e.g., the concierges have gotten tired of being mailman). Before, the concierges would sign for packages but I guess it's only a matter of time before someone steals something a concierge signed for and chaos ensures. So the end result is that to anyone living in a condo that operates like this they have to get their stuff shipped to the local pick up depot and it has caused 1 hour long waits in some cases.
Yeah, I totally hear ya on that one -- especially as it as supposed to be 'door-to-door'. They should probably not use that term anymore. The courier mess has happened to me so often over the past few years that I got fed up and realized that since things have changed drastically over the past 10 years as someone pointed out in this thread (re: skyrocketing online retail sales/deliveries), that I had to basically make a choice: chase down packages that get delivered 'anywhere' by the courier that is too far/inconvenient for me and I still have to line up for it anyway, OR... just go to a Post office/SDM that I choose.
If I ever order a large, heavy item, I'd have to bite the bullet and be stuck with a courier and monitor them very closely via customer reps sending specific instruction for the driver to actually show up (i.e. basically 'babysitting' them). But even then, I'd probably just choose a B&M store that has their own delivery service and buy in person. Luckily I don't have or need any big heavy items though.

The driver I'd recently spoken to said the drivers (the company they work for) were subcontractors, especially for these retail-to-consumer deliveries.

I guess we'd all have to make such choices, and as you noted, not everyone has that time luxury to line up (or even location of a pick up spot). I just found, in my individual case, that I'd wasted more time tracing on the phone, and traveling for courier packages, than any post office ones.

Heck, I recall a few years ago that even the UPS Store up the street from me was so swamped and fed up of getting stuff dumped there (for nearby buildings that were skipped, of course :rolleyes: ), that a UPS customer rep told me that some of these franchises complained and had started to refuse such deliveries. A UPS store! I recently went there (for something else) and saw a few small packages behind the counter, but the clerk said it's been nowhere near like it was the few years ago. I suppose that's why there was an increase in convenience stores used in the past year or so as well.

Yes, good point, that the condo/apt concierges are getting swamped too. I'd recently learned there's a company (called 'The Parcel Port') that started a 'Smart Locker' service in business buildings and can offer it in residential ones too, where the courier can deliver to a secure installation in the lobby and you can get notification via phone or email, with a code, enter or scan it on the keypad and get your package. The box automatically opens. No concierge needed. They have an installation in Waterpark Place on Queens Quay, which I saw for myself and worked great. Employees can get packages sent there. Right now only UPS is on board as it's pretty new, but they're trying to get other couriers too. They said it doesn't cost the property managers anything to set up. That could be a potential option for us building-dwellers and employees in buildings, down the road.
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I'm sure that the courier companies have actuaries that have determined that payouts for stolen-from-doorstep stuff are still lower than the expenditures required to collect signatures/return-to-depot. But the more stuff people buy online, and the more couriers leave stuff at the doorstep, the more thieves will know that doorsteps are easy pickings, and thefts will increase. Maybe eventually the cost of claims payouts is going to surpass the leave-at-doorstep savings and they'll stop leaving stuff at the doorstep.
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Kiraly wrote:
Jan 13th, 2019 1:48 pm
I'm sure that the courier companies have actuaries that have determined that payouts for stolen-from-doorstep stuff are still lower than the expenditures required to collect signatures/return-to-depot. But the more stuff people buy online, and the more couriers leave stuff at the doorstep, the more thieves will know that doorsteps are easy pickings, and thefts will increase. Maybe eventually the cost of claims payouts is going to surpass the leave-at-doorstep savings and they'll stop leaving stuff at the doorstep.
Courier company is only responsible if the driver leaves it when the driver shouldn't have left it, which would be a very small number compared to the number of packages left because the shipper instructed the courier company to leave it.
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djeffery wrote:
Jan 13th, 2019 3:38 pm
Courier company is only responsible if the driver leaves it when the driver shouldn't have left it, which would be a very small number compared to the number of packages left because the shipper instructed the courier company to leave it.
Do shippers instruct courier companies to leave stuff on doorsteps? Why would they? What advantage does that give the shipper?
18% = GTA residents as a proportion of Canada's total population
97% = chance that an RFDer lives in the GTA when he posts something location specific, without giving a location

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Kiraly wrote:
Jan 13th, 2019 4:26 pm
Do shippers instruct courier companies to leave stuff on doorsteps? Why would they? What advantage does that give the shipper?
They get the cheapest rate this way because the driver can do more work rather than taking time to ring a door bell and wait, fill out door tags when no one is home, and then take the package back to the depot where another person now has to spend time dealing with making arrangements with the receiver to get their package. When companies like Amazon don't charge for shipping, they have to find the cheapest way possible to send the stuff and the delivery companies offer them the cheapest rates by making it up in volume of work done by their workers. If a driver can do 12 or 13 deliveries in an hour where they have to wait for someone at the door, and either get a signature or worse, have to leave a tag, they will get 16 or 17 done by not needing to wait for an answer at the door. That's how UPS, Purolator etc make their money on cheap freight like Amazon
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djeffery wrote:
Jan 13th, 2019 7:21 pm
They get the cheapest rate this way because the driver can do more work rather than taking time to ring a door bell and wait, fill out door tags when no one is home, and then take the package back to the depot where another person now has to spend time dealing with making arrangements with the receiver to get their package.
This will no longer be the cheapest method for the shipper and/or courier if thefts from doorsteps increase enough.
18% = GTA residents as a proportion of Canada's total population
97% = chance that an RFDer lives in the GTA when he posts something location specific, without giving a location

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Kiraly wrote:
Jan 13th, 2019 9:30 pm
This will no longer be the cheapest method for the shipper and/or courier if thefts from doorsteps increase enough.
At some point I'm sure Amazon et al will reach the tipping point and say they aren't giving free shipping anymore, or raise the prices on items enough to pay for signature service. Or come up with other ideas. They already put forward the remote door lock thing, but I don't think people are too into that. They also have the lock box idea, something courier companies have been doing for decades already in the more simpler "you have a key, we have a key" model, not the higher tech method they talk about now. There is a cost to that though, and I'm sure someone would have to attain a certain level of business before Amazon would supply one of those for free. Someone else brought up the neighbourhood pick up point. I just don't see people willing to do that in any great numbers. You order off Amazon because you don't want to go to a store to buy something. For the most part, the prices aren't that much better than the store has it for, you just don't have to worry about going to get it. Now if you have to go to some store to get your shipment, I think many people will just say screw it, I'm going to Walmart or wherever, and just have it and not worry about waiting for it to be delivered to Mac's or Shoppers.
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The videos of "Porch Pirates" are scary, some thieves will follow delivery trucks and snatch packages soon after delivery regardless if you are home or not. There was a video on Global News (TO) of a delivery left between doors (enclosed porch), not visible from the street, yet a thief comes to swipe it soon afterwards.
djeffery wrote:
Jan 13th, 2019 7:21 pm
They get the cheapest rate this way because the driver can do more work rather than taking time to ring a door bell and wait, fill out door tags when no one is home, and then take the package back to the depot where another person now has to spend time dealing with making arrangements with the receiver to get their package. When companies like Amazon don't charge for shipping, they have to find the cheapest way possible to send the stuff and the delivery companies offer them the cheapest rates by making it up in volume of work done by their workers. If a driver can do 12 or 13 deliveries in an hour where they have to wait for someone at the door, and either get a signature or worse, have to leave a tag, they will get 16 or 17 done by not needing to wait for an answer at the door. That's how UPS, Purolator etc make their money on cheap freight like Amazon
Yeah, the volume they push is amazing. If you have packages taking up space in the truck that need to return to the depot that's more work to load/unload and less deliveries. Stopping and waiting for a signature may not be worth the drivers time so you get the classic "delivery attempted" with the truck zooming by your house. Theft at the doorstep is between the seller and buyer, the courier is concerned with maximizing deliveries so as long as they get the package there they've done their part contractually.
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Kiraly wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 7:13 pm

Yeah right. Those cameras would be stolen a lot faster than any package.
That'd be pretty stupid of the thief. You'd have them on video stealing your camera.
Not that it'd help at all. See next point.

I have never heard of anyone complaining of having to go pick up a package because they were not home when an attempted delivery was made.
There's people complaining in this very thread.
Depots are usually far away without easily accessible transit. For me to pick up a package, it's about a 90 minute round trip with traffic driving. By transit it'd be closer to 3 hours.
eclone wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 7:34 pm
I doubt the police will do anything even with evidence unless you can identify the thieve.
I doubt the police would do anything even if you could identify the thief.
StatsGuy wrote:
Jan 12th, 2019 11:22 am
Live in a condo, problem solved
Only if you have a concierge. Otherwise it's pickup slips galore.

Or deliver it to work
This is the best option.
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I'm still waiting for anybody who has an issue with laziness as an explanation offer an alternative.
After about a minute, the worker emerges from the vehicle with a delivery slip in hand, but no package.

Surveillance footage shows the worker making his way up to the home, where he immediately leaves the delivery slip on the doorknob, without even attempting to see if the resident was home.

As the worker gets back inside the vehicle, you can hear a woman call out “hello” and adding “you didn’t even knock on the door.”

The worker then returns with the package, and offers the woman an apology, saying, “sorry about that, usually there’s nobody home.”
Sounds exactly like what I outlined in a previous post.

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