Desktop upgrade advice

[kcheleb]

Hello everyone, I recently purchased Counter-Strike Source and it did not run as good as I expected on my system. So I was just thinking about doing a couple of upgrades to my desktop, I have listed my full specs below.

I am thinking about upgrading my video card because I would like to purchase the new Counter-Strike (Global Offensive) and I would like a video card that will be able to run that game, so I have a question


What video card do you recommend I purchase (one that will be able to run CS Source and CS Global Offensive) it doesn’t have to be the greatest and most up to date video card, just a good one that can run those games on high settings.


I realize that not every motherboard is able to run any card, I don’t know if my motherboard is PCI-E 1.0 or 2.0, also I don’t know what video card my power supply can support, I would prefer to just get one that can run both those games AND without having to change the power supply

The specs for my desktop right now after running Speccy are:


AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Dual Core Processor
3.00 GB Single-Channel DDR2 @ 244MHz (4-4-4-12) RAM
ASUSTek Computer INC. NODUSM3 (Socket AM2 ) motherboard
ATI Radeon HD 3400 Series (VISIONTEK) video card
H213H (1920x1080@60Hz) monitor
Windows 7 32-bit OS

If there are any more specs you need to know, just let me know. I am not sure how to check what my PSU is

I have the following option of video cards, please let me know which one of these is the best (and if it will work with my motherboard and power supply without changing them)

HD 6670
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...3fbdf9cee4en02

Radeon 7750
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...90142a3fd0en02

GT 440
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...0e3e51c617en02

once again, my MAIN concern is to run CS Source and CS Global Offensive (which I believe uses the same engine as Portal 2) with high FPS, and high resolution
and doing that without having to change anything but the video card
...right now my 3400 gets about 30 fps MAX on crappy resolution

please if you have any other suggestions or advice, let me know

[DavidY]

You will need to post information on your PS....should have voltages and current figures on the side of the PS. Manufacturer name and model number would help too.

Your CPU is pretty slow....I have a slightly slower one (AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+)....too slow for newer games....Diablo 3 needs an AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ as a minimum. I assume that your PC is 4-5 years old at least....mine is.

Also, graphic card pricing at BB isn't very competitive.

Use pricing here:

http://pcpartpicker.com/ca/

Dave

[thinfilms]

-to find out PCIe version, download gpu-z and it can tell you
-it would be useful to know what PSU you have

However, assuming power and cost isn't an issue , the 7750 is the best card (it also doesn't require any external power connectors). Does this system happen to be some OEM machine, with a generic PSU?

[djemzine]

Hello everyone, I recently purchased Counter-Strike Source and it did not run as good as I expected on my system. So I was just thinking about doing a couple of upgrades to my desktop, I have listed my full specs below.

I am thinking about upgrading my video card because I would like to purchase the new Counter-Strike (Global Offensive) and I would like a video card that will be able to run that game, so I have a question


What video card do you recommend I purchase (one that will be able to run CS Source and CS Global Offensive) it doesn’t have to be the greatest and most up to date video card, just a good one that can run those games on high settings.


I realize that not every motherboard is able to run any card, I don’t know if my motherboard is PCI-E 1.0 or 2.0, also I don’t know what video card my power supply can support, I would prefer to just get one that can run both those games AND without having to change the power supply

The specs for my desktop right now after running Speccy are:


AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Dual Core Processor
3.00 GB Single-Channel DDR2 @ 244MHz (4-4-4-12) RAM
ASUSTek Computer INC. NODUSM3 (Socket AM2 ) motherboard
ATI Radeon HD 3400 Series (VISIONTEK) video card
H213H (1920x1080@60Hz) monitor
Windows 7 32-bit OS

If there are any more specs you need to know, just let me know. I am not sure how to check what my PSU is

I have the following option of video cards, please let me know which one of these is the best (and if it will work with my motherboard and power supply without changing them)

HD 6670
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...3fbdf9cee4en02

Radeon 7750
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...90142a3fd0en02

GT 440
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...0e3e51c617en02

once again, my MAIN concern is to run CS Source and CS Global Offensive (which I believe uses the same engine as Portal 2) with high FPS, and high resolution
and doing that without having to change anything but the video card
...right now my 3400 gets about 30 fps MAX on crappy resolution

please if you have any other suggestions or advice, let me know

First off, it is key to find out what your PSU is. Your system is pretty old and a) if its a pre built system such as made by HP/Dell, it will be a very cheap PSU most likely or b) if you made the system yourself, you might have resorted to a lower end PSU. Any how, the best way for you to find out is the open up the case and see what the PSU make and model it is. Some even tell you what the wattage is. Do that first and you should be good to go. Newer stuff require a better or more efficient PSU in terms of wattage. I think that for these cards, anything less than 500W is a no go.

Secondly, your motherboard the Asus NODUSM3 is not the actual name of the motherboard. Its a code name for the Asus A8M2N-LA which is used in pre built systems such as HP. I take it your PC is HP? If it looks like this - http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf-JAVA.../c00757541.jpg then by all means that's the one. As per the PCI slot, it says it has one PCI Express X16 and 3 PCI slots. So I'd assume it'd be 1.0. Then again I could be wrong.

Thirdly, those video cards might not work if your motherboard is 1.0 or 2.0. Reason being is that the Asus GT440, the last link you provided is PCI Express X16 2.0. If your motherboard is 1.0 then you're in no luck. If it is 2.0 then you are in luck. The HD6670 is PCI Express X16 2.1, again it won't work if 1.0 and it might work if its 2.0. Hit or miss there. The last one the HD 7750 is PCI Express X16 3.0. You're in no luck for that, so you'd have to rule it out. That being said your only options are the GT 440 or the HD 6670, again depending if your motherboard supports 2.0. If someone can verify this for me it'll be great. As for the price points they're pretty standard and seems to the cheapest vs other places such as NCIX/Best Direct, New Egg, etc. Plus you do get free shipping so that's even a plus. You could probably get those from Memory Express and price match free shipping.

However before you plunge, I strongly recommend you check the PSU first and to be honest, if its an old HP/Compaq desktop, I think its time for an upgrade. I know it must have been serving your daily needs until now but if you plan on running a game on decent specs, the video card won't itself cut it out. You need a good CPU to handle it as well. So you might want to think about that too.

All in all, good luck and let us know what PSU you have.

Edit: It seems that someone here has mentioned that you can use GPU-Z to find out the current PCI value of your video card. Based on that you'll be able to know if those GPUs will run. If its less than PCI X16 3.0 then you're outta luck for the HD7750.

Cheers

-to find out PCIe version, download gpu-z and it can tell you
-it would be useful to know what PSU you have

However, assuming power and cost isn't an issue , the 7750 is the best card (it also doesn't require any external power connectors). Does this system happen to be some OEM machine, with a generic PSU?

The 7750 won't work if OP does not have a motherboard that doesn't support PCI E X16 3.0

[DavidY]

First off, it is key to find out what your PSU is. Your system is pretty old and a) if its a pre built system such as made by HP/Dell, it will be a very cheap PSU most likely or b) if you made the system yourself, you might have resorted to a lower end PSU. Any how, the best way for you to find out is the open up the case and see what the PSU make and model it is. Some even tell you what the wattage is. Do that first and you should be good to go. Newer stuff require a better or more efficient PSU in terms of wattage. I think that for these cards, anything less than 500W is a no go.

Secondly, your motherboard the Asus NODUSM3 is not the actual name of the motherboard. Its a code name for the Asus A8M2N-LA which is used in pre built systems such as HP. I take it your PC is HP? If it looks like this - http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf-JAVA.../c00757541.jpg then by all means that's the one. As per the PCI slot, it says it has one PCI Express X16 and 3 PCI slots. So I'd assume it'd be 1.0. Then again I could be wrong.

Thirdly, those video cards might not work if your motherboard is 1.0 or 2.0. Reason being is that the Asus GT440, the last link you provided is PCI Express X16 2.0. If your motherboard is 1.0 then you're in no luck. If it is 2.0 then you are in luck. The HD6670 is PCI Express X16 2.1, again it won't work if 1.0 and it might work if its 2.0. Hit or miss there. The last one the HD 7750 is PCI Express X16 3.0. You're in no luck for that, so you'd have to rule it out. That being said your only options are the GT 440 or the HD 6670, again depending if your motherboard supports 2.0. If someone can verify this for me it'll be great. As for the price points they're pretty standard and seems to the cheapest vs other places such as NCIX/Best Direct, New Egg, etc. Plus you do get free shipping so that's even a plus. You could probably get those from Memory Express and price match free shipping.

However before you plunge, I strongly recommend you check the PSU first and to be honest, if its an old HP/Compaq desktop, I think its time for an upgrade. I know it must have been serving your daily needs until now but if you plan on running a game on decent specs, the video card won't itself cut it out. You need a good CPU to handle it as well. So you might want to think about that too.

All in all, good luck and let us know what PSU you have.

Edit: It seems that someone here has mentioned that you can use GPU-Z to find out the current PCI value of your video card. Based on that you'll be able to know if those GPUs will run. If its less than PCI X16 3.0 then you're outta luck for the HD7750.

Cheers

The 7750 won't work if OP does not have a motherboard that doesn't support PCI E X16 3.0

It is my understanding that a PCI-e 2.0 card will work in a PCI-e 1.x motherboard (ie. backward compatible)....card won't run at full capacity however (bandwidth is limited in the motherboard).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Exp...CI_Express_2.0

GT 440 (PCI-e 2.0) will work with a 300 watt power supply. http://www.evga.com/products/moreinf...01G-P3-1441-KR

There have been reports that a HD 6670 will work with a 300 watt power supply. It's a PCI-e 2.1....it may NOT work in a PCI-e 1.x motherboard.

Dave

[djemzine]

It is my understanding that a PCI-e 2.0 card will work in a PCI-e 1.x motherboard (ie. backward compatible)....card won't run at full capacity however (bandwidth is limited in the motherboard).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Exp...CI_Express_2.0

GT 440 (PCI-e 2.0) will work with a 300 watt power supply. http://www.evga.com/products/moreinf...01G-P3-1441-KR

There have been reports that a HD 6670 will work with a 300 watt power supply. It's a PCI-e 2.1....it may NOT work in a PCI-e 1.x motherboard.

Dave

Hmm I guess I stand corrected, thanks for bringing up the point. Nevertheless isn't it kind of pointless to run a backwards compatible video card and experience slower bandwidth? Hence reduce performance?

[DavidY]

Hmm I guess I stand corrected, thanks for bringing up the point. Nevertheless isn't it kind of pointless to run a backwards compatible video card and experience slower bandwidth? Hence reduce performance?

To my understanding, the reduced performance is only a few percent.

If the OP's power supply is only 300 watts and if the motherboard is PCI-e 1.x, I would assume that the GT 440 is probably the best graphics available. Too bad that the HD 6xxx cards are all 2.1....which may or may not work in the OP's motherboard (assumed to be PCI-e 1.x).

$60 for this GT 440:

http://pcpartpicker.com/ca/part/evga...rd-01gp31441kr

Dave

[kcheleb]

UPDATE Hello everyone, thanks for the replies

Okay so I opened up my computer and my PSU is
Bestec ATX-300-12Z

also, it seems like my GPU is bottlenecked, not my CPU, since I get higher framerates when I lower the resolution

meaning my AMD dual core would be able to handle a better vid card, so yea I'd rather not change the entire system or the processor

video card and PSU is another question ...

Also from what I see it appears as though there are some PCI-E connectors, I have a bunch actually they are labeled (P1, P2, P3 ... P8)

and finally, where exactly would I be able to tell on GPU-Z what PCI my motherboard is??

[kcheleb]

UPDATE Hello everyone, thanks for the replies

Okay so I opened up my computer and my PSU is
Bestec ATX-300-12Z

also, it seems like my GPU is bottlenecked, not my CPU, since I get higher framerates when I lower the resolution

meaning my AMD dual core would be able to handle a better vid card, so yea I'd rather not change the entire system or the processor

video card and PSU is another question ...

Also from what I see it appears as though there are some PCI-E connectors, I have a bunch actually they are labeled (P1, P2, P3 ... P8)

and finally, where exactly would I be able to tell on GPU-Z what PCI my motherboard is??

[DavidY]

UPDATE Hello everyone, thanks for the replies

Okay so I opened up my computer and my PSU is
Bestec ATX-300-12Z

also, it seems like my GPU is bottlenecked, not my CPU, since I get higher framerates when I lower the resolution

meaning my AMD dual core would be able to handle a better vid card, so yea I'd rather not change the entire system or the processor

video card and PSU is another question ...

Also from what I see it appears as though there are some PCI-E connectors, I have a bunch actually they are labeled (P1, P2, P3 ... P8)

and finally, where exactly would I be able to tell on GPU-Z what PCI my motherboard is??

The version of your PCI-e should be shown on the Graphics tab under GPU-Z...on the right hand side about half way down....mine isn't shown since I am using integrated video (6150SE).

Dave

[djemzine]

To my understanding, the reduced performance is only a few percent.

If the OP's power supply is only 300 watts and if the motherboard is PCI-e 1.x, I would assume that the GT 440 is probably the best graphics available. Too bad that the HD 6xxx cards are all 2.1....which may or may not work in the OP's motherboard (assumed to be PCI-e 1.x).

$60 for this GT 440:

http://pcpartpicker.com/ca/part/evga...rd-01gp31441kr

Dave

True. By the way Canada Computers is out of stock. Also this GPU is not powered by the PSU or something?

UPDATE Hello everyone, thanks for the replies

Okay so I opened up my computer and my PSU is
Bestec ATX-300-12Z

also, it seems like my GPU is bottlenecked, not my CPU, since I get higher framerates when I lower the resolution

meaning my AMD dual core would be able to handle a better vid card, so yea I'd rather not change the entire system or the processor

video card and PSU is another question ...

Also from what I see it appears as though there are some PCI-E connectors, I have a bunch actually they are labeled (P1, P2, P3 ... P8)

and finally, where exactly would I be able to tell on GPU-Z what PCI my motherboard is??

You're welcome. So it seems that you have a 300W PSU which should run the GT 440 and as DavidY mentioned via the link you can get the card for that price from Canada Computers after a MIR. Still cheaper than Best Buy. That's one place plus Future Shop I'd never buy any components from.

Any how that being said with GPU-Z (and per this screenshot from their website), you can find what PCI your video card is currently under "Bus Interface" and in that sample screenshot it clearly shows PCI E 2.0 X16.



Yours should show up under bus interface. I think all in all, you are in a safe bet to get the GT 440. As for the PSU, like I said the 300 PSU should handle it but even if you do change it, consider taking the time again to re-hook everything to all the components. Which takes time. So stick with your PSU. Get the card and see how it runs, usually you have a return policy and some places might charge a restocking fee, but other than that, that's the only way you know to see if it works fine with your PSU.

Interesting, seems like Canada Computers is out of stock.

Good luck again!

[kcheleb]

Next to Bus-Interface it says "PCI-E 1.1 x16 @ x16 1.1"

but wouldn't that be what PCI my video card is, and not my actual motherboard?

and since it seems like the GT-440 is the preferred video card, ultimately does it address my main concern to run CS Source (and in the future CS Global Offensive)

I know my friend used to have a Radeon HD 2600 XT, and it ran Source pretty well actually, just wondering how this GT-440 would compare to that

any other recommendations other than the GT-440 as well???

Also (sorry for asking so many questions, I just really wanna be able to play Global Offensive when it comes out )What is a recommended PSU brand? how many volts and wattage should it have?

again thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it

[DavidY]

I just checked my PS, it's the same make and model....Bestec ATX 300-12Z Version EDR. +12 V: 19 A.

I too could probably upgrade to a GT 440....not sure if it's worthwhile since the CPU is too slow for D3.

HD 6870 would be a nice match with my 1920x1200 monitor....would need a new PS or system for that card.

Dave

[DavidY]

Next to Bus-Interface it says "PCI-E 1.1 x16 @ x16 1.1"

but wouldn't that be what PCI my video card is, and not my actual motherboard?

and since it seems like the GT-440 is the preferred video card, ultimately does it address my main concern to run CS Source (and in the future CS Global Offensive)

I know my friend used to have a Radeon HD 2600 XT, and it ran Source pretty well actually, just wondering how this GT-440 would compare to that

any other recommendations other than the GT-440 as well???

Yes. The PCI-e version shown on the Graphics Tab is the card, not the motherboard. To find the PCI-e version, you would need to find out the motherboard make and model and track down the specifications of that motherboard....it's very likely that it's either PCI-e 1.0 or 1.1...which supports 2.0 graphics cards. 2.1 cards are iffy....works on some 1.x motherboards, but not on others. I know that HD 6xxx cards are 2.1.....might be worth it if you can buy it, try it and if it doesn't work, return it without a restocking fee (most shops have restocking fee...BB or FS may not...but they charge more).

Here's a chart showing the various graphics cards and they compare with each other (need to go up 3 steps to notice performance differences): http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3107-7.html

GT 440 is 4-5 steps higher than the 2600 XT.

Use this to calculate the power supply requirements including proposed graphics:

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

A GT 440 would likely work in my system....not sure how good the Bestec PS is? HD 6670 may also work....PCI-e 2.1 however?

Dave

[djemzine]

Next to Bus-Interface it says "PCI-E 1.1 x16 @ x16 1.1"

but wouldn't that be what PCI my video card is, and not my actual motherboard?

and since it seems like the GT-440 is the preferred video card, ultimately does it address my main concern to run CS Source (and in the future CS Global Offensive)

I know my friend used to have a Radeon HD 2600 XT, and it ran Source pretty well actually, just wondering how this GT-440 would compare to that

any other recommendations other than the GT-440 as well???

Also (sorry for asking so many questions, I just really wanna be able to play Global Offensive when it comes out )What is a recommended PSU brand? how many volts and wattage should it have?

again thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it

Well, you do have a point there. I guess the only other way of actually knowing is to again open up the computer and take out the current video card from its slot and see what PCI/PCI-E it is. Unfortunately by looking up at your motherboard it didn't say. All it said was PCI - E X16 and not the actual speed.

As for the GT 440 working with CS Source, it does meet the requirements. However your Radeon HD 3400 does not (just hover your mouse over those two and you'll be able to see it) Click on the 400 series for the Nvidia and the HD 3000 series for the ATI one: http://www.game-debate.com/games/ind...rike:%20Source

As for Global Offensive, it seems it should be fine as well as per the same website: http://www.game-debate.com/games/ind...al%20Offensive

As for recommended PSU brands - Corsair, Antec, Seasonic are pretty amazing brands. My Corsair 65T 650W has been keeping me through since 2008 and I just upgraded my rig to an i5 quad core system with a GTX 560 Ti OC 900Mhz GPU. Haven't had any issues. For wattage, I'd say since your system is outdated, perhaps in the 400 to 500W range should be fine... For volts I am not too sure, perhaps someone can better help with that.

You're most welcome and its all good about the questions.

Edit: Seems that DavidY has answered about the voltage part. DavidY the motherboard of his is the Asus A8M2N-LA as per my first post. Couldn't find what it is exactly as it only stated PCI E X16 and one slot only.

Yes. The PCI-e version shown on the Graphics Tab is the card, not the motherboard. To find the PCI-e version, you would need to find out the motherboard make and model and track down the specifications of that motherboard....it's very likely that it's either PCI-e 1.0 or 1.1...which supports 2.0 graphics cards. 2.1 cards are iffy....works on some 1.x motherboards, but not on others. I know that HD 6xxx cards are 2.1.....might be worth it if you can buy it, try it and if it doesn't work, return it without a restocking fee (most shops have restocking fee...BB or FS may not...but they charge more).

Here's a chart showing the various graphics cards and they compare with each other (need to go up 3 steps to notice performance differences): http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3107-7.html

GT 440 is 4-5 steps higher than the 2600 XT.

Use this to calculate the power supply requirements including proposed graphics:

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

A GT 440 or maybe a GTS 450 would likely work in my system....not sure how good the Bestec PS is?

Dave

If you are doubting the PSU, then you might consider upgrading it. Again it might be some work for you to re-hook up everything from the motherboard, HD. Shouldn't take that long. Just make sure a PSU fits your case.