Parenting & Family

Difficulty with sleep training

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  • Oct 22nd, 2018 12:06 pm
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Deal Addict
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Dec 19, 2005
1409 posts
80 upvotes
Our daughter is almost 2. My parents live with us and they would not let us sleep train, we’ve fought with them. Pretty much when she cries they will go in and pick her up even when we tell them not to. The one time we were able to try when our daughter was 12 months, she would not stop crying even after 30 minutes so I’ve pretty much given up.

Anyways, we use to just hold her to sleep when she was under 1. Then around 1 year she would sleep in our bed with us. She’s a high energy baby so while we lay in bed she’ll be playing with the blankets, jumping on my stomach, etc. until she tires herself out which could take anywhere from 30 min to an hour. Once she’s tired we move her to her crib.

Since 18 months, now we lay on the floor with her in her bedroom next to her bed. Pretty much does the same as above and will eventually sleep after 30 mins to an hour. I’ve tried making her stay in her bed while I lay on the floor beside her, but she always comes down and wants to lay beside me.
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Jan 9, 2011
3053 posts
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Vancouver
naxos98 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 9:04 pm
How did you introduce co-sleeping? I mentioned this to my wife, she wonders how our daughter would learn to settle.

We are still considering all potential solutions. So far we haven't found anything that works.
How to introduce co-sleeping? Just bring baby to bed with you. It's not any more difficult than that.

Co-sleeping was the best for all three of us getting the most sleep. Getting up at night for feedings was no longer needed, just breast feed while lying down. Eventually my wife never even woke up for breast feedings, baby found the nipple and fed herself without my wife even waking up. Simple, easy, no crying, no fuss, the most sleep for all three of us.
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Newbie
Jul 21, 2013
61 posts
26 upvotes
Toronto
Stick at it, we found consistency is the key (regardless of the method used) and ultimately it’ll come down to your individual child. We found cosleeping worked for us, it does come with some dangers if one parent is a restless sleeper.

Whatever you do , don’t let other parents make you feel like your failing because they got their child to sleep earlier, the reality is they just got lucky, most children who sleep well early were hardwired that way, the parents efforts played a very minor role if any.
[OP]
Member
Jan 29, 2006
423 posts
17 upvotes
Its been a rough week so far. We thought we had made a little progress with getting her to bed initially at night. But on the other end we have had to deal with more night wakings, and then inability to sleep even after breast feeding. Things seem to have gotten worse overall. (my daughter slept ok 2 nights ago, but it seems like it is more of fluke then anything else). Last night she woke up approx 1 hr after we had put her down for the night. She woke up, couldn't settle her, so my wife feed her fairly quickly before she got too agitated. Then came almost 3hrs of fussing/crying before she fell asleep. She woke up again frequently at night, just after 5am and after a feed, same thing happened where we couldn't get her to sleep until 7am.

My wife even tried bringing her to bed a few times this week, but my daughter is just as fussy and moving about as she was in her crib. Does it take a bit of time for her to get used to it, for co-sleeping to work?

We were hoping that she would be able to sleep better before the Leap 5 developmental period, but according to the schedule she is in it now. Apparently sleep training during a developmental phase is not recommended, but this phase is suppose to last a few weeks.

We at a loss of what to do, and we don't know how we would be getting thorough the next few weeks.
Sr. Member
Mar 24, 2015
781 posts
200 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
naxos98 wrote:
Oct 14th, 2018 6:30 pm
Its been a rough week so far. We thought we had made a little progress with getting her to bed initially at night. But on the other end we have had to deal with more night wakings, and then inability to sleep even after breast feeding. Things seem to have gotten worse overall. (my daughter slept ok 2 nights ago, but it seems like it is more of fluke then anything else). Last night she woke up approx 1 hr after we had put her down for the night. She woke up, couldn't settle her, so my wife feed her fairly quickly before she got too agitated. Then came almost 3hrs of fussing/crying before she fell asleep. She woke up again frequently at night, just after 5am and after a feed, same thing happened where we couldn't get her to sleep until 7am.

My wife even tried bringing her to bed a few times this week, but my daughter is just as fussy and moving about as she was in her crib. Does it take a bit of time for her to get used to it, for co-sleeping to work?

We were hoping that she would be able to sleep better before the Leap 5 developmental period, but according to the schedule she is in it now. Apparently sleep training during a developmental phase is not recommended, but this phase is suppose to last a few weeks.

We at a loss of what to do, and we don't know how we would be getting thorough the next few weeks.
I'm wondering if your baby might have reflux (GERD). Before I tried co-sleeping with my son at around 5 months, we elevated his crib mattress a little bit. Not only did he have reflux, but he also used to throw up a lot. He would be fussy about 1hr after each feed during the day, and had lots of sleep disturbances. We took him to his pediatrician at around 4 months and and he prescribed something, forgot the name, but it helped a little bit. I remember my son used to wiggle a lot, like he was uncomfortable, arching his back as well.

It shouldn't take a lot of time for co-sleeping to work but if there's something medical preventing her to sleep, co-sleeping won't make a difference.
Jr. Member
Mar 29, 2010
102 posts
35 upvotes
Toronto
My kid has always been a bad sleeper since he was a few days old. Went to Dr to get him checked out and Dr ruled out reflux. I think he is just a bad sleeper and decided to purchase this program called Little Ones for 3-12 months (they have programs for other age brackets as well). The nice part about the program is that once you purchase it, you get an access to their app and can ask questions to get input/advices about sleeping or feeding from their admins and other moms. I certainly learn a lot from just reading the posts.

Although I don’t strictly follow all of the recommendations and approaches, I followed the feeding and sleeping schedules and did notice a lot of improvements with his sleep. The program lays out the max length of awake time between each nap and also provides tips on teaching babies to self settle (including how to break off the feed to sleep association) or troubleshoot early wake etc. At 7.5 months, my kid still cosleeps with us and still briefly wakes up 3-4 times at night. Half of the time, he can fall asleep on his own at beginning of nap/bedtime while I lay beside him on the bed, and the rest of the time, I just have to cuddle him a bit, put him on bed, and pat his bum to get him to sleep. I used to have to rock him or wear him on baby carrier for at least 30 minutes to get him to sleep. The routine schedule also allows me to know when he is expected to be tired and sort of plans my day around his naps if possible.

I also found his sleep was so much worse during Leap 5 compared with Leap 4. Teething was even worse with him waking up crying almost every hour at night.

Note though, just like any other programs/sleep train methods, it may not be for everyone. I think I paid US$43.
[OP]
Member
Jan 29, 2006
423 posts
17 upvotes
ckay1980 wrote:
Oct 14th, 2018 8:34 pm
I'm wondering if your baby might have reflux (GERD). Before I tried co-sleeping with my son at around 5 months, we elevated his crib mattress a little bit. Not only did he have reflux, but he also used to throw up a lot. He would be fussy about 1hr after each feed during the day, and had lots of sleep disturbances. We took him to his pediatrician at around 4 months and and he prescribed something, forgot the name, but it helped a little bit. I remember my son used to wiggle a lot, like he was uncomfortable, arching his back as well.

It shouldn't take a lot of time for co-sleeping to work but if there's something medical preventing her to sleep, co-sleeping won't make a difference.
She had gas issues when she was a newborn. We tried a lot of different things, but nothing clearly fixed the problem. Sometimes it seems like what we were doing helped, but it could also be that she outgrew it. She was prescribed ranitidine (Zantac) by our doctor, we used it for a bit, it had seemed to help. More recently we noticed, that she would randomly throw up a small amount. It didn't seem to cause any distress though, we would be holding her, or she would be playing, and just spit up with no fussing or crying (though it hasn't happened as much in the past few days). We will probably check with the doctor about this.

Last night went ok. She actually fell asleep within 15min with minimal fussing. Still lots of night wakings, but no incidents of not being able to fall asleep after feeding like the previous night. We have survived another day.

It seems like the 4-6month age is the worst for sleep problems. Many people have told us to hang in there and it will get better. Just wondering when people start noticing that there baby is starting to sleep longer?
[OP]
Member
Jan 29, 2006
423 posts
17 upvotes
zhiccup wrote:
Oct 14th, 2018 11:56 pm
My kid has always been a bad sleeper since he was a few days old. Went to Dr to get him checked out and Dr ruled out reflux. I think he is just a bad sleeper and decided to purchase this program called Little Ones for 3-12 months (they have programs for other age brackets as well). The nice part about the program is that once you purchase it, you get an access to their app and can ask questions to get input/advices about sleeping or feeding from their admins and other moms. I certainly learn a lot from just reading the posts.

Although I don’t strictly follow all of the recommendations and approaches, I followed the feeding and sleeping schedules and did notice a lot of improvements with his sleep. The program lays out the max length of awake time between each nap and also provides tips on teaching babies to self settle (including how to break off the feed to sleep association) or troubleshoot early wake etc. At 7.5 months, my kid still cosleeps with us and still briefly wakes up 3-4 times at night. Half of the time, he can fall asleep on his own at beginning of nap/bedtime while I lay beside him on the bed, and the rest of the time, I just have to cuddle him a bit, put him on bed, and pat his bum to get him to sleep. I used to have to rock him or wear him on baby carrier for at least 30 minutes to get him to sleep. The routine schedule also allows me to know when he is expected to be tired and sort of plans my day around his naps if possible.

I also found his sleep was so much worse during Leap 5 compared with Leap 4. Teething was even worse with him waking up crying almost every hour at night.

Note though, just like any other programs/sleep train methods, it may not be for everyone. I think I paid US$43.
We had tried a bunch of different programs and incorporated many ideas about teaching your baby to self-soothe and to break certain sleep associations. Almost all of them have failed. We tried to break the feed to sleep association. We can usually get her fall asleep for the night without it, but have failed with subsequent night wakings. We had tried it, but I think our daughter was able to outwait us. After several nights of her fussing/crying for 1-2hrs after a wakeup (sometimes only 1hr after the last feed), we gave in and now for the moment we will feed her to get her to sleep.

There are many times our daughter has bad nights that will leave us super sleep deprived and stressed, so that we consider just doing extinction training. But then she seems to have a decent night where its manageable and we end put sleep training on the back burner again.
Jr. Member
Oct 17, 2013
130 posts
67 upvotes
Ontario
Maybe she is teething? Our doctor said it was OK to use infant advil to ease the pain and help with sleep. My youngest was a very early teether and a dose of infant's advil really helped with the fussy sleep. He still woke up throughout the night to nurse (we coslept), but he didn't keep thrashing about in his sleep, so we slept better. Ask your doctor if this might be an option.
Newbie
Jan 3, 2018
37 posts
17 upvotes
Reflux is painful for babies and lying down flat to sleep just makes it worse . I say wait till that resolves before trying sleep training.
My newborn had reflux. She had gas issues even before we left the hospital. We had to stop sleep training until that the reflux resolved itself around 11 months. Those 11 months were horrible but now she sleeps very well. Hang in there and good luck.

naxos98 wrote:
Oct 15th, 2018 10:50 am
She had gas issues when she was a newborn. We tried a lot of different things, but nothing clearly fixed the problem. Sometimes it seems like what we were doing helped, but it could also be that she outgrew it. She was prescribed ranitidine (Zantac) by our doctor, we used it for a bit, it had seemed to help. More recently we noticed, that she would randomly throw up a small amount. It didn't seem to cause any distress though, we would be holding her, or she would be playing, and just spit up with no fussing or crying (though it hasn't happened as much in the past few days). We will probably check with the doctor about this.

Last night went ok. She actually fell asleep within 15min with minimal fussing. Still lots of night wakings, but no incidents of not being able to fall asleep after feeding like the previous night. We have survived another day.

It seems like the 4-6month age is the worst for sleep problems. Many people have told us to hang in there and it will get better. Just wondering when people start noticing that there baby is starting to sleep longer?
Newbie
Oct 19, 2006
19 posts
5 upvotes
Toronto
Ricearonie wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 12:25 pm
We started with our boy at 4 months with the cry it out method. Did his bedtime routine which consisted of a bath, feed and story time, then we turned on his nightlight/music and placed him down. Made sure in the beginning that I (dad) was the only one to check up so he didn't associate mom checking up on him with feedings (we were also weening him off night feeds). Went back every 1 min, 5 min and then 10 min. He got the hang of it in about a week.

My only suggestion is to make sure they're really full off the last feed before they sleep.

Now is a different story since he learned how to roll.... =\ but we expected some regression.
This also worked for us. I (dad) always put him down. We also did a little bit of playing and baby talk to make him laugh so he positively associated with sleep time. After a month, the time it took for him to self sooth himself to sleep dropped significantly. We also resisted the urge to check in on him. For naps, if he woke before an hour, we would let him sooth himself back to sleep. At night, anything before 2am, we would not react. We did watch from the camera though.

To ween off night feeding, you can try dream feeding. If baby is sleeping, before you go to bed intentionally wake the baby up to feed them so they can sleep longer (assuming feeding is the reason they can't sleep).
Sr. Member
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May 12, 2009
735 posts
304 upvotes
Our oldest was the same with all the hours of crying. Eventually we started co-sleeping which instantly fixed the problem. Then one night when she was 2.5 yo, she said as clear as day, "Mom, I don't need you anymore". And that was that, been a prefect sleeper ever since. She is still an anxious person but her bedroom is her sanctuary. I would give anything to take back the "sleep training" weeks and just admit that she was more needy than other babies. It would have saved a lot of tears from everyone.
[OP]
Member
Jan 29, 2006
423 posts
17 upvotes
So two nights ago, was another bad night. It still took a while to get her to sleep. My wife tried to be playful and gave lots of kisses to help calm her while in the crib. Our daughter was calmed by the actions but still would fuss. I think it took about an hour to get her to sleep. There were lots of night wakings, usually 1hr40 apart. Then after feeding at 2am, she couldn't fall back asleep. My wife tried for over an hour, and I tried another hour after that. She finally went to sleep after another feeding.

Last night the efforts to calm her to get her to sleep failed. She wasn't being calmed by the kisses and the playfulness last night, or by being held. We had seen the doctor yesterday and he didn't think the acid reflux was the problem causing her to wake. My wife who was already exhausted, tried for 30minutes to get her to sleep, but our daughter was even more fussy and crying. I tried to calm her too, but had no luck. At this point, we were both at a complete loss. We seemed to be giving more and more assistance in trying to get her to sleep, but it seems only effective a day or two before it stopped working.

At this point we decided we would let her cry it out. We left the room and she cried for approx 40-45min before she fell asleep. She woke up again in an hour, but this time it seemed like she was trying to fall asleep for was unable to. We waited it out a bit, but 11pm came which was when we planned to feed her. My wife fed her and then she feel asleep. At around 12:45am, she awoke and cried a little bit, but within approx 5 minutes she resettled herself. We awoke around 3:15am and realized she was still sleeping! My wife planned to give her a dream feed at 4am. At 4am she feed her and she went back to sleep. She then slept until 7:30am!

It was only day 1, so we are hopeful for tonight as well (and hope it wasn't a fluke). But both my wife and I are more rested today then we have been in a long time. We also have some hope that our daughter will finally learn to fall asleep on her own. Not sure if the consistency of making sure she fell asleep for the night in bed made a difference, or whether she wasn't developmentally ready when we first started. We will see what happens, but I am hopeful.
Newbie
Oct 19, 2006
19 posts
5 upvotes
Toronto
That's great. It will get better. I think you should manage your expectations that it's almost impossible at this stage to put the baby down calm. They will always cry themselves to sleep, as this is the entire point right now. Don't nurse to sleep if you can help it. Try to feed and keep baby awake, then put to bed awake, so she can learn to sleep on their own. If baby is well fed, let her cry for as long as you can resist. It's hard to watch, so stay strong.
Sr. Member
Mar 24, 2015
781 posts
200 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
How long does she sleep during the day? How many naps? With my kids, if they didn't have enough nap, they would be overtired and restless at bedtime. At 5 months they both had two naps, one mid morning, one mid afternoon, then switched to one long nap at around 8-9 months.
Also think it could be teething. I think it's the time babies start to have their two bottom teeth. My older had them come at around 1 month apart and it was accompanied by sleep issues. My other son had his teeth later but they all came at right after the other.

Good luck! Hang in there. Remember to take care of yourselves as well.

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