Automotive

Do japanese cars like toyota and honda really hold up to their name in terms of reliability?

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  • Oct 7th, 2018 2:15 pm
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cn_habs wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 8:00 am
Has there been lots of engine issues with its popular CR-V since 2013 model year? Most taxi drivers all drive Toyota's for a reason and there are probably more Hyundai's out there than Honda's.
https://www.truedelta.com/Honda-CR-V/reliability-110
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/

Sift through the noise, and you'll find problems worth reporting. Vibration seemed to be an issue with CRV. The absolute number of reported "problems" may seem scary, but keep in mind that this is one of the top selling cars worldwide.
If you trust Consumer Reports, their 2018 report actually list the CRV as one of the most reliable cars in the Honda lineup...

Most taxi drivers drive Prius, so I think fuel saving is a bigger driving force than reliability.
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mr_raider wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 10:06 am
This amazes me to no end. I bought Lexus a few years back and the salesman was bragging about reliable and well built they were. Ten minutes after signing, the finance guy tries to sell me a warranty and tells me how expensive they are to repair and how much senors and "computers" fail.

Scum.. all of them.
That's when Android Auto/Apple Carplay comes in handy. When the OEM infotainment system craps out, just switch to AA/AC. As long as the head unit still works as a monitor, all your processing power would be from your mobile device.
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BBZero wrote:
Jan 18th, 2018 4:23 pm
In the case of Toyota, they are more reliable (durable) because they keep using relatively ancient technology in their vehicles. Not too long ago, their Corollas still use 4 speed AT. They are stubborn to a point, where they won't implement "new" technology until they think is bulletproof. Until then, slap on the battle-tested equipment! A lot of Toyota's reliability also stems from their world-class manufacturing methods. Literature is aplenty on this subject.

Mazda is also a Japanese brand. They were rust buckets when they partnered up with Ford in the past. Today, they're a small company with way less brand presence compared to Toyota/Honda.

I'll let others crap on Honda's up and downs in the last couple of decades.

Hyundai/Kia started from the bottom, and have climbed up since the 2010s.
+1 ^^^ ancient tech and low complexity is the main reason why their reliability is high, but they're not immune. I believe there were issues with their Sienna transmissions. It also helps that they don't have UAW/CAW union labour, which doesn't help in any metric.
aleks wrote:
Jan 18th, 2018 5:45 pm
Let me throw this up again:
Image
https://www.iseecars.com/used_cars-t598 ... wners-keep
That's not necessarily indicative of reliability (though I don't disagree). It could say a lot of the owners who plan on keeping their cars for a long time, doing proper maintenance, as opposed to German cars where people lease and dump them.
poleman wrote:
Jan 18th, 2018 10:24 pm
There's a reason about 90% of the taxis in the Greater Vancouver area are Toyotas.
There is also a reason that you see very few turbos in Toyotas. They know the turbo won't go the distance.
Aren't most GVA taxis Prius (for the MPG)? That said most in the GTA are Camrys.
Messerschmitt wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 12:11 am
I'll never buy Honda again.

They screwed up their engine casting and now everybody with a 2006-2009 model risk of having a paper weight if/when the engine block cracks. They offered a 10 year extended warranty and 1 day past this, they wash their hands. I smell a class action law suit, but it will take a long time to get to Canada if anything will be happening int he US.

In other news, My 2015 Kia Forte still works nicely. I agree with BBZero that Kia/Hyundai stepped up their game. The car still has almost no complaints on carcomplaints.com website. Of course it's a matter of numbers sold, but looks good for 2, coming up to 3 years now.
Don't forget Kia also had a huge recall last year for metal shavings in the engine causing lubrication failures. My wife's Sportage engine was rebuilt (before it failed) and she had to drive a beat up Elantra for a couple weeks.
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BBZero wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 10:39 am
That's when Android Auto/Apple Carplay comes in handy. When the OEM infotainment system craps out, just switch to AA/AC. As long as the head unit still works as a monitor, all your processing power would be from your mobile device.
The odds of Android Auto or Apple Carplay still working if the rest of the infotainment system is kaput is near nil, they are not quite as simple as just working as a display for your phone.
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engineered wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 10:59 am
+1 ^^^ ancient tech and low complexity is the main reason why their reliability is high, but they're not immune. I believe there were issues with their Sienna transmissions. It also helps that they don't have UAW/CAW union labour, which doesn't help in any metric.


That's not necessarily indicative of reliability (though I don't disagree). It could say a lot of the owners who plan on keeping their cars for a long time, doing proper maintenance, as opposed to German cars where people lease and dump them.


Aren't most GVA taxis Prius (for the MPG)? That said most in the GTA are Camrys.


Don't forget Kia also had a huge recall last year for metal shavings in the engine causing lubrication failures. My wife's Sportage engine was rebuilt (before it failed) and she had to drive a beat up Elantra for a couple weeks.
Did the dealer swap a brand new engine after the recall?
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BBZero wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 10:37 am
https://www.truedelta.com/Honda-CR-V/reliability-110
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/CR-V/

Sift through the noise, and you'll find problems worth reporting. Vibration seemed to be an issue with CRV. The absolute number of reported "problems" may seem scary, but keep in mind that this is one of the top selling cars worldwide.
If you trust Consumer Reports, their 2018 report actually list the CRV as one of the most reliable cars in the Honda lineup...

Most taxi drivers drive Prius, so I think fuel saving is a bigger driving force than reliability.
Now look at RAV4's near spotless record: https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/RAV4/

I've been comparing reliability as I am shopping for a used compact SUV and noticed that CRV's reliability especially with 2015 model year has been noticeably worse compared to the RAV4. The former does look much appealing inside and out and offers better fuel economy though. Maybe I should look at the Sportage or Tucson instead.
Last edited by cn_habs on Jan 19th, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cn_habs wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 11:29 am
CRV is full of problems in the last 10 years esp compared with RAV4's near spotless record: https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/RAV4/

I've been comparing reliability as I am shopping for a used compact SUV and noticed that Honda's reliability has gone downhill significant compared to the Toyota. The CR-V does look much appealing inside and out and offers better fuel economy than the RAV4 though.
The '13 RAV4s right after the redesign are now having widespread torque convertor failure around this age.
The new '17 CR-V seems to be having glitches with its infotainment system and digital dash.
The '15 CR-V had major issues with engine vibration at idle.

I think I'd describe these more as design issues.
The shitty thing is that, these can't be fixed as easily as components that just wear out.
Last edited by AstulzerRSX on Jan 19th, 2018 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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every time I think about Toyota I get a massive reliability boner
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AstulzerRSX wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 11:33 am
The '13 RAV4s right after the redesign are now having widespread torque convertor failure around this age.
The new '17 CR-V seems to be having glitches with its infotainment system and digital dash.
The '15 CR-V had major issues with engine vibration at idle.

I think I'd describe these more as design issues.
https://www.torquenews.com/1574/effecti ... r-v-owners


Going slightly off tangent, the Honda Civic was deemed "unreliable" by Consumer Reports in 2016 (redesign). Why? Grandpas and grandmas didn't like that the car came without a volume knob.
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My mom loves Toyota but ever since her 2006 Matrix encountered a problem of random engine shutoffs, recent quiet news at the time and research showed me that Toyota was incompetent in the technology sector wise to build good ECU firmware.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/arti ... 80%9D-code
Bookout and Schwarz v. Toyota emanated from a September 2007 UA event that caused a fatal crash. Jean Bookout and her friend and passenger Barbara Schwarz were exiting Interstate Highway 69 in Oklahoma, when she lost throttle control of her 2005 Camry. When the service brakes would not stop her speeding sedan, she threw the parking brake, leaving a 150-foot skid mark from right rear tire, and a 25-foot skid mark from the left. The Camry, however, continued speeding down the ramp and across the road at the bottom, crashing into an embankment. Schwarz died of her injuries; Bookout spent five months recovering from head and back injuries.
This is not related to the floor mat recall.

Any car before around 2011 has intensely bad code but Toyota didn't bother to recall cars for an available firmware upgrade, not patch.
My mom was bringing in the car since she experienced multiple random shutdowns, the Toyota matrix shut down right in front of the mechanic on an incline so they had to push it up. They then flashed 2009 Matrix firmware to the 2006 to solve the issues.

I still like Toyota for its mechanical reliability, but I can't look at their software/technology implementations the same way.

Being in Information Security, you'll learn a lot of insecurities introduced by the manufacturers as they add computers to cars, an ECU not programmed right which has existed for more than a decade should be the biggest issue in safety.
Last edited by MadCanadian on Jan 19th, 2018 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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engineered wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 10:59 am
+1 ^^^ ancient tech and low complexity is the main reason why their reliability is high, but they're not immune. I believe there were issues with their Sienna transmissions. It also helps that they don't have UAW/CAW union labour, which doesn't help in any metric.


That's not necessarily indicative of reliability (though I don't disagree). It could say a lot of the owners who plan on keeping their cars for a long time, doing proper maintenance, as opposed to German cars where people lease and dump them.


Aren't most GVA taxis Prius (for the MPG)? That said most in the GTA are Camrys.


Don't forget Kia also had a huge recall last year for metal shavings in the engine causing lubrication failures. My wife's Sportage engine was rebuilt (before it failed) and she had to drive a beat up Elantra for a couple weeks.
Yes, but if I'm not mistaken KIA made it a recall and there is no arbitrarily timeframe where they stop owning up to their mistakes. So as for Honda, for me they dropped the ball big time. For now I hope something will come out in US and trickle into Canada before I'd have a problem with my engine block (and maybe hopefully I will never do)
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MadCanadian wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 11:45 am
My mom loves Toyota but ever since her 2006 Matrix encountered a problem of random engine shutoffs, recent quiet news at the time and research showed me that Toyota was incompetent in the technology sector wise to build good ECU firmware.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/arti ... 80%9D-code

This is not related to the floor mat recall.

Any car before around 2011 has intensely bad code but Toyota didn't bother to recall cars for an available firmware upgrade, not patch.
My mom was bringing in the car since she experienced multiple random shutdowns, the Toyota matrix shut down right in front of the mechanic on an incline so they had to push it up. They then flashed 2009 Matrix firmware to the 2006 to solve the issues.

I still like Toyota for its mechanical reliability, but I can't look at their software/technology implementations the same way.

Being in Information Security, you'll learn a lot of insecurities introduced by the manufacturers as they add computers to cars, an ECU not programmed right which has existed for more than a decade should be the biggest issue in safety.
Sorry, but the Toyota fans are going to call that fake news. :rolleyes:
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cn_habs wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 11:15 am
Did the dealer swap a brand new engine after the recall?
They say they only repaired it. This was actually before the recall, and we had brought it to the dealer to because there was a wizzing sound coming from the engine. I though it was probably a bad bearing in the idler pulley, but they said it was the oil pump disintegrating. When it took 3 weeks to repair, and when I heard about the engine recall, I suspected that they actually did tear apart the engine and replace the main bearings. Though they may have had to do that if the oil pump sent metal parts through the system. I'm not sure if that was the same problem as the recalls.
Messerschmitt wrote:
Jan 19th, 2018 11:54 am
Yes, but if I'm not mistaken KIA made it a recall and there is no arbitrarily timeframe where they stop owning up to their mistakes. So as for Honda, for me they dropped the ball big time. For now I hope something will come out in US and trickle into Canada before I'd have a problem with my engine block (and maybe hopefully I will never do)
Kia (like most companies) only made the recall after the issues became so widespread that they had to do it. Initially I recall that many owners were forced to pay out of pocket.

I think we were lucky in that we were diagnosed just before the recall was issued, and that the dealer already knew it was going to be issued.

That said, all car makers suffer from some quality issues and recalls.

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