Is "Dual Income" common / necessary to sustain decent living these days?

[forthewinwin]

Since most of the posters on these forums seem to be young working people, let me add my perspective as a senior retired person.

To those posters lauding the simple, one-income earner life, what are your plans for retirement? The non-working spouse won't qualify for CPP, just OAS at maybe age 67. Can you save enough in RRSP's on one income while raising children to retire comfortably?

I had my children later in life, already twelve years into my career which offered me a stable pension. So I continued working. With my spouse, I was able to help my children graduate from university debt-free. I paid a healthy amount in child care, to a single provider. I also paid IE and CPP for her (along with health tax when that was applicable), so she would have some retirement income to show for the 15 years she worked for us.

We lived and continue to live simply. And we live in a smaller community.

I find it hard to believe that the average couple can live and raise children in major urban areas on a single income and afford to save for a comfortable retirement.

I can't speak for GTA, but in the GVA (Vancouver area), for the typical family with typical living preferences and two kids, outside West Vancouver, you need to have $4000-5000/month NET income coming in every month just as living. Add more depending on how much you want to save.

Typical house price in Burnaby/Coquitlam area (1 hour away from Vancouver): $500000 - 600000 lower end, $600000+ otherwise
-or- Rent: approx. $600-700+/person, so for family of 4, $2400+
Food: $1200+/month
Auto, 2 vehicles: $1200+/month average ownership cost including insurance, gas, maintenance, depreciation, etc.
Misc. stuff like cosmetics, toys, electronics, appliances once in a while, dentist, medicine, etc. : $300-400+

Ever since I started university I've always been wondering whether I'd ever hit the 6-figures before I get old...
It sounds like a lot at first, but after CPP and Income tax, $100k -> $68k in your pocket here, and perhaps less depending on what other misc. deductions you have. So let's say around $5000/month... it's not an overwhelming amount. Yes, yes you could rely on a well-off wife/spouse but given the sky-high divorce/breakup rates I don't want to take that as a realistic consideration

[RolandCouch]

I had LA Gears, they had a light that would flash with each step, I was the coolest kid in the class when I got those.

Those were for chicks.

[divx]

The "Financial Facelifts" on theglobeandmail usually have interesting examples of "decent" living; this week, we have a couple + 2 kids just scraping by with $14,000 in after-tax monthly net income:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle4462192/


There's probably $2,000 worth of discretionary spending in that list each month...is all of it necessary? I guess it depends on who you ask.

weird number, is that for a year?

[divx]

I can't speak for GTA, but in the GVA (Vancouver area), for the typical family with typical living preferences and two kids, outside West Vancouver, you need to have $4000-5000/month NET income coming in every month just as living. Add more depending on how much you want to save.

Typical house price in Burnaby/Coquitlam area (1 hour away from Vancouver): $500000 - 600000 lower end, $600000+ otherwise
-or- Rent: approx. $600-700+/person, so for family of 4, $2400+
Food: $1200+/month
Auto, 2 vehicles: $1200+/month average ownership cost including insurance, gas, maintenance, depreciation, etc.
Misc. stuff like cosmetics, toys, electronics, appliances once in a while, dentist, medicine, etc. : $300-400+

Ever since I started university I've always been wondering whether I'd ever hit the 6-figures before I get old...
It sounds like a lot at first, but after CPP and Income tax, $100k -> $68k in your pocket here, and perhaps less depending on what other misc. deductions you have. So let's say around $5000/month... it's not an overwhelming amount. Yes, yes you could rely on a well-off wife/spouse but given the sky-high divorce/breakup rates I don't want to take that as a realistic consideration

too rich for my blood, but it's sure nice to live in a big city, why else would most people live there...

[viss]

Kids of wealthy families aren't below those who have had to struggle, but it's difficult to ignore the opposite assumption, that simply being brought up by a rich family somehow makes you better. Now nobody is going to come right out and say that's how they feel, because a remark like that is indefensible. Regardless, privilege by virtue of wealth is something ingrained and institutionalized in our society. Nobody has to come out and say it because the gap is self-evident; in the clothes we wear, in the cars we...

Well said!

[forthewinwin]

too rich for my blood, but it's sure nice to live in a big city, why else would most people live there...

People like it here because it's "Vancouver".
Personally I'm not too fond of it and its rainforest climate. It rains all the time, literally all the time. It's so depressing. If not, usually all you ever see outside Summer is a dead white sky.

And I'm talking $500k for some older worn down neighborhood that I wouldn't even want to live in, unless you move to say, Maple Ridge, where I grew up much of my life in. It's 1 1/2 hour away and not a very convenient area. People call it a "bedroom community" because people just buy a cheaper house there to sleep in and work outside it. Here for $450 - 500k you can get a fairly average house that isn't in an older worn neighborhood. It's somewhere where do NOT want to raise your children through the high schools though.

Too expensive in GTA and around.

A lot of bullcrap happens such as the non-regulation of insurances (car, home, life) in ontario. I have no loyalty to insurance companies and if something cheaper is around I will take it. I claim nothing for years yet I have to pay $170 for my car, and $165 for my wife's. Why?

Electricity, gas costs are ***** too. What the hell is delivery? Why is that tacked on top of the rate and not explained how much does it cost?

Fuel costs are ***** too, $1.30 for fuel then they make 15cent jumps per octane. It's either buy a hybrid or electric or take public, which then public costs about $200 a month weather TTC/GO or whatever. That doesn't make sense.

In the Vancouver area gas is typically $1.40/L, insurance about the same as you mentioned, if not slightly more by $10-20/month.
You aren't alone.... :p

The funny thing is as a student, I don't pay any tuition because of bursaries, scoularships, grants,etc... But my student loan is all because of rent, utilities, and food... sad. And part-time jobs here will pay you no more than $11/hour usually, if you can even find one.

I wonder what the average age of finishing education is these days? That's the problem, IMHO, combined with the high ratio of house-price to income.

It is 23.

Graduate at age 18, university for a 4-year degree, but many take 5-6 because they cringe at the idea of a full courseload or they don't take the right courses or/and fail some.

You could even be out of there by the time you're 21 if you do it right and take summer semesters consistently while taking full-courseload in the winter, but it's less common.

[gheart008]

So most of the people are saying

One person goes to work
Second one takes care of the house all day is ok? What if they have great job that they went to school for and making a decent living? Would you want them to quit once your married?

Seems very 1950's thinking to me? Oui?

Not really 1950, but more the fact that daycare nowadays sometimes will cost more than the second net income all together, especially when you have more than one child. People are paying $1000 to $1500 a month PER child for daycare. After adding up all the costs, plus the fact that your child grows up without the parents, it makes total sense, both personal and economical, for one of the parents to stay home.

[gheart008]

"Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like", true for a lot of people, including for a lot of relatives of mine.

At least cite the quote for those who don't know who originally said it!

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Will_Smith

[HTTP04]

Canada Goose is a necessity!

The weather in Toronto is extreme!

I dont know how I can survive without one!

[tsat]

Not really 1950, but more the fact that daycare nowadays sometimes will cost more than the second net income all together, especially when you have more than one child. People are paying $1000 to $1500 a month PER child for daycare. After adding up all the costs, plus the fact that your child grows up without the parents, it makes total sense, both personal and economical, for one of the parents to stay home.

Exacary

For us it wasn't the cost that was the ultimate deciding factor it was the whole other people raising your kids thing. We decided we could live comfortably enough on my income... I'd never tell her what to do but I'm happy that she put her career on hold for the family.

But it's all relative to your desired lifestyle.

[Forhad]

It depends on how much you earn per month?

[charliebrown]

This family is a bit more realistic. Middle-aged couple with 3 kids; no expensive daycare, but fitness programs for the kids.

http://business.financialpost.com/20...tough-choices/

[Feneant]

Interesting image CharlieBrown... It shows how wasteful we can be. Nothing says you need to spend 1440$ a month on food and restaurants, 800$ a month on gymnastics (seriously??) or things of that nature. Probably a quarter of those monthly expenses could be converted into savings

[flashy_mcflash]

$800 for gymnastics lessons for 3 kids isn't terribly unreasonable. People likely spend at least that amount for hockey or other sports. Better than raising a fat slob, anyhow.

[iownyou]

[QUOTE=Feneant;15163693]Interesting image CharlieBrown... It shows how wasteful we can be. Nothing says you need to spend 1440$ a month on food and restaurants, 800$ a month on gymnastics (seriously??) or things of that nature. Probably a quarter of those monthly expenses could be converted into savings[/QUOTE]

what are you going to do with those savings you converted into.?? "waste" them later when you retire??