Automotive

Edmonton BMW--CCC BS Explanation?

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Deal Addict
Dec 7, 2004
1056 posts
111 upvotes

Edmonton BMW--CCC BS Explanation?

So Recently I (thought) I had negotiated a fair deal for a 335I.

Invoice (CCC) + 4%. I was VERY CLEAR in my email regarding WHOLESALE (AS per CCC) + 4%.

When I got the Bill of Sale the terms had changed and the dealership calculated MSRP - 4%.

When I refuted this , this is what the sales manager emailed me:

"Car Cost Canada also talks about discount from MSRP, not margin from calculated cost. (which is slightly wrong by the way). Car Cost is a valuable tool but it is not an authority. Margins are calculated from MSRP back, not cost forward. There is some incorrect math there. Negotiations are also not usually based on how much you perceive the dealer to be making, it is usually based on discount"

This is about the seventh vehicle using CCC I've bought...well almost bought...and NEVER have I ever had to deal with MSRP, especially with a CCC participant.

Suffice to say I walked away from the dealership and my hunt for a vehicle continues.

AVOID EDMONTON BMW Southside!! Not only do they not own up to their own mistakes, they blame you!

Thoughts?
19 replies
Deal Guru
User avatar
Oct 14, 2003
14325 posts
1241 upvotes
Morphius909 wrote:
AVOID EDMONTON BMW Southside!! Not only do they not own up to their own mistakes, they blame you!

Thoughts?

What mistake and where are they blaming you for something?
Science
is the new
rock 'n'
roll.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jul 30, 2007
33236 posts
21164 upvotes
Toronto
Wow, you are having real bad luck getting a new car.

I have heard dealerships of any manufacturers are very few, therefore the lack of competition really made the price negotiation very hard. Any chance you would consider a MB now? Since all the MB dealerships are corporate owned, you may only have to visit just one dealer and submit your offer and hope for the best. However, if you still want to get the BMW, would you consider going outstide Edmonton, like Calgary ?

Sorry to hear your bad experience.
Morphius909 wrote: So Recently I (thought) I had negotiated a fair deal for a 335I.

Invoice (CCC) + 4%. I was VERY CLEAR in my email regarding WHOLESALE (AS per CCC) + 4%.

When I got the Bill of Sale the terms had changed and the dealership calculated MSRP - 4%.

When I refuted this , this is what the sales manager emailed me:

"Car Cost Canada also talks about discount from MSRP, not margin from calculated cost. (which is slightly wrong by the way). Car Cost is a valuable tool but it is not an authority. Margins are calculated from MSRP back, not cost forward. There is some incorrect math there. Negotiations are also not usually based on how much you perceive the dealer to be making, it is usually based on discount"

This is about the seventh vehicle using CCC I've bought...well almost bought...and NEVER have I ever had to deal with MSRP, especially with a CCC participant.

Suffice to say I walked away from the dealership and my hunt for a vehicle continues.

AVOID EDMONTON BMW Southside!! Not only do they not own up to their own mistakes, they blame you!

Thoughts?
Deal Addict
Dec 7, 2004
1056 posts
111 upvotes
Ojam wrote: What mistake and where are they blaming you for something?

Basically I negotiated Invoice + 4%.

They claim I negotiated MSRP - 4% even though my email proves it was Invoice + 4 %. They tried to twist it so to make me believe I agreed to MSRP - 4%.

They then blamed my "Miscommunication".

No, it;s more like their "BULL SH***T".
Deal Addict
Dec 7, 2004
1056 posts
111 upvotes
booblehead wrote: Wow, you are having real bad luck getting a new car.

I have heard dealerships of any manufacturers are very few, therefore the lack of competition really made the price negotiation very hard. Any chance you would consider a MB now? Since all the MB dealerships are corporate owned, you may only have to visit just one dealer and submit your offer and hope for the best. However, if you still want to get the BMW, would you consider going outstide Edmonton, like Calgary ?

Sorry to hear your bad experience.

Yes, First Ericksen Infiniti and Disgusting Customer Service, now Edmonton BMW and well, I don't even know what to term this as!

My Auto Gods must think all the good experiences I've had in the past needed a "reboot".
Deal Expert
User avatar
May 10, 2005
36997 posts
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Ottawa
I find it quite interesting that CCC and other such services seem to be aware of the "invoice" price of a car to the dealer. The variables in what the dealer pays are many. Things such as, how many cars he orders, how many delivered, how many of that delivery is sold withing a specific time frame, how long they have the car unsold, past history of turnover of vehicles and on and on. There is no real "invoice" price on a vehicle as they are different in each delivery and at each dealership.
Now having said that, CCC and such tools are just that, they are tools and should be used as information and not definitive starting points for buying. The MSRP is the only thing that is equal to all dealers, all regions and, all customers.
Perhaps, as the OP is having so much difficulty getting a new car, they should not base their entire negotiations on a CCC report but use it for comparative purposes amongst dealers for the same vehicle.
Not defending dealerships or manufacturers but sometimes people have a very simplistic view of business, especially the car business. They don't just order and pay the OEM for a car. Volume, turnover, quantity etc all make a difference on the dealers invoice cost per vehicle.
“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
Deal Addict
Oct 1, 2008
1942 posts
1109 upvotes
Morphius909 wrote: Basically I negotiated Invoice + 4%.

They claim I negotiated MSRP - 4% even though my email proves it was Invoice + 4 %. They tried to twist it so to make me believe I agreed to MSRP - 4%.

Out of curiousity, how much difference are we talking about?
Deal Addict
Dec 7, 2004
1056 posts
111 upvotes
GreyingJay wrote: Out of curiosity, how much difference are we talking about?

Close to 900 bucks which is not chump change.

They did hesitantly say they might consider splitting the difference, but after they pretty much put all the blame on ME and treated me like crap, I didn't want to give them any business. They seemed to go into Defensive mode "It's your fault not ours so suck it up" right away which is just poor Customer service.

Epic Fail Edmonton BMW.
Deal Addict
Oct 1, 2008
1942 posts
1109 upvotes
Morphius909 wrote: Close to 900 bucks which is not chump change.

They did hesitantly say they might consider splitting the difference, but after they pretty much put all the blame on ME and treated me like crap, I didn't want to give them any business. They seemed to go into Defensive mode "It's your fault not ours so suck it up" right away which is just poor Customer service.

Epic Fail Edmonton BMW.

Yeah, not impressive. If it were me, I would walk too. I might have conceded to splitting the difference if they had worded that explanation in such a way that didn't make it seem like it was your fault.

I walked away from a local Hyundai dealership because the salesperson's email was rude and insulting. Others on RFD have dealt with the same person and said he offered great deals in the end. Still, I'm not giving that guy the satisfaction of knowing his "style" is successful.
Deal Expert
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May 10, 2005
36997 posts
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Ottawa
Morphius909 wrote: I can't make this stuff up....
You are probably right but you must be the unluckiest person or something you are doing ain't right? Basically the same problems with different dealers.
“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
Deal Addict
Dec 7, 2004
1056 posts
111 upvotes
Pete_Coach wrote: You are probably right but you must be the unluckiest person or something you are doing ain't right? Basically the same problems with different dealers.

I'm just not meant to get a new vehicle I'm starting to think...

I guess being very "nice" in my emails and phone calls doesn't cut it as the response is usually "piss off" from the dealers.

Maybe I need some attitude when I deal with luxury brands?

Sigh.

I'll take a car...any car! at this point...
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
30106 posts
5547 upvotes
Montreal
Morphius909 wrote:
Maybe I need some attitude when I deal with luxury brands?
No you need to move to city where there are more options. Around here there are three Infiniti and BMW dealers each within 30km of driving. Poor service is usually rewarded with a "thanks, but no thanks" attitude.
Deal Expert
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May 10, 2005
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Ottawa
Morphius909 wrote: I'm just not meant to get a new vehicle I'm starting to think...

I guess being very "nice" in my emails and phone calls doesn't cut it as the response is usually "piss off" from the dealers.

Maybe I need some attitude when I deal with luxury brands?

Sigh.

I'll take a car...any car! at this point...
Good luck finding the car and the deal that makes you happy.
Sometimes you just need to jump in and quit second guessing whether you are getting or got a good deal or not. When you find something you like and did your best, consider it done and drive away. Don't look back. :)
“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
Deal Addict
Aug 25, 2007
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Bolton, ON
What are all the vehicles that you are considering?
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 7, 2001
7994 posts
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Alberta
Try joining APA and take the haggling out of the question. Less than $100 for a one year membership and you get up to five price quotes. Not the absolute best deal, but usually quite reasonable. Before buying a membership, check if APA has dealers in Alberta for the makes that you are considering. Otherwise, it would be a long road trip...

I am not much a haggler....when I bought my Ranger a couple of years ago, after checking their inventory (ensuring they had what I wanted), I got several dealers to give me their price. Some provided MSRP. One provide a reasonable deal (a bit more than APA) and after several emails, it was a done deal. The rep of course asked for a deposit. I didn't bother and showed up and paid....after a painful bus ride in winter time. Stayed overnight in a hotel and drove home in 4 hours the next day.

Dave
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Jun 23, 2003
1404 posts
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why complicate things by saying things like Invoice (CCC) + 4%, just give them an exact $ amount since you know what it is, no more "confusion" on either side.
Temp. Banned
Jun 18, 2008
5095 posts
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Montreal
Morphius909 wrote: Close to 900 bucks which is not chump change.

They did hesitantly say they might consider splitting the difference, but after they pretty much put all the blame on ME and treated me like crap, I didn't want to give them any business. They seemed to go into Defensive mode "It's your fault not ours so suck it up" right away which is just poor Customer service.

Epic Fail Edmonton BMW.

Without knowing the reason and outcome of your experience with Infiniti is it possible you're over reacting just a bit? In a new car purchase the dealer is out to sell for the most and the buyer is trying to save the most. Major conflict of interest and it's expected that the dealer will come up with all sorts of reasons and excuses of why he can't give you the price. This is all normal and part of ongoing negotiations. IMO you are in Edmonton and as opined in your previous thread there is a shortage of luxury cars/dealers so your choice is limited. You are in a less advantageous position as someone who lives in Ont/Que. Like raider said, we have 5 BMW dealers within 30K of each other and all have bloated inventories on top of it.

If you really want the car, splitting the $900 difference isn't so bad. What is $450 on a 40-50K car? You can also split and get him to throw in some accessories, mats, or some BMW trinkets or get a deal on winter tires but calling out a dealer for the 2nd time on an internet forum because he's trying to sell for
as much as possible is a bit much.
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Feb 15, 2005
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booblehead wrote: Wow, you are having real bad luck getting a new car.

I have heard dealerships of any manufacturers are very few, therefore the lack of competition really made the price negotiation very hard. Any chance you would consider a MB now? Since all the MB dealerships are corporate owned, you may only have to visit just one dealer and submit your offer and hope for the best. However, if you still want to get the BMW, would you consider going outstide Edmonton, like Calgary ?

Sorry to hear your bad experience.

Are you sure all MB dealerships are corporately owned? The 2 dealers here, Weber MB & David Morris fine cars, are private dealerships. Buying a vehicle is probably one of the worse experiences one can go through voluntarily in this city. :(
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