Personal Finance

Equifax says consumers have no choice: they own your data

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 15th, 2017 10:43 am
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FrancisBacon wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 12:40 pm
It is. You apply for a loan from lender #11. You say "but I refuse credit checks". Lender #11 will NOT have access to your Equifax file.
But that's dependent on the lender to voluntarily follow your wishes. Sometimes they don't. Equifax should not release data without your direct positive permission.

I've heard that you can freeze your credit reporting with Equifax, but that puts the onus on you to take action to restrain them, and I also hear that it costs money to add and remove the freeze.
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springdays wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 2:50 pm
Not at all, and the articles confirms that if you can actually read and comprehend English, Equifax confirms that they own all the granular data collected about consumers, and consumers have no SAY nor NO OWNERSHIP themselves. i.e. the content and substance of this is accurate - Equifax confirms it owns all your data and there ain't nothing you can do about it - nor are they proactively reaching out to affected people who have had hackers steal ALL personal information.
I can't speak for asa, but I did read the whole article, and I think it's clear that it's designed to drum up shock and drama out of little or nothing. "This is part of the way the economy works" and "it’s not my perspective to say it's right or wrong" are carefully chosen ominous-sounding phrases out of context. If there was anything that provocative actually said, I would expect those direct quotes to be included, but instead they are just hinted at. Essentially, this "news" is just telling us what we have already known for decades: That credit bureaus take reports from lenders and sell them to other lenders. The real story is that they suck at security, but that's old news, so they need to manufacture a new story.
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How are those quotes even ominous? It's clear that the inquiry is stating facts, as they stand, and have operated, but the Equifax **** up just showed it up and shined more scrutiny on it. The news always and often can cover historical background, as well as current circumstance - and this is exactly what this report is doing. Same with the inquiry. Up until these data breaches, this joke of an industry was not even scrutinized. That is the point. I don't understand how talking about the context of an industry is irrelevant or misleading. Equifax in fact does own the consumer data and there is no practical, easy choice to forgo that. Combined with this mega cluster * it became more obvious how much of an issue that is. Faith24 above spoke about opting out - for all pragmatic purposes, it is difficult and a roadblock for a consumer who wants and needs credit in this day and age. Again, context is king. Also these representatives that go to hearings will never say something genuinely ominous or headline grabbing - their role is to minimize damage and say the least they can get away with - hence why the questions are so important in hearings like that. Companies like Equifax which profit immensely off your and my personal data know what publicity and PR/media means. They aren't sending an idiot to a public inquiry which is recorded.
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springdays wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 2:15 pm
You know it's only North America that uses things like "credit agencies" - what a joke. You think the EU, UK, Australia, HK etc are all hurting for not? NO

Scam of the century #142 - the North American credit culture (right before education costs)
What are you on about? The very same credit agency companies operate all over. In the UK there is Equifax, Experian. The US has Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion. I don't know about France but I'm damn sure they will have at least one of those three.
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daverobev wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 9:01 pm
What are you on about? The very same credit agency companies operate all over. In the UK there is Equifax, Experian. The US has Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion. I don't know about France but I'm damn sure they will have at least one of those three.
I lived in the UK for a couple of years when I was younger as part of an exchange program, and not once did I get asked to get a report there when I went to banks/got credit cards etc. My credit applications were all based on income and assets.

So they may have a presence but they definitely do not determine credit approval ie. they have not penetrated the market whatsoever- unlike North America

To your second point, US is North America

I didn't mention France - I said Australia, HK, but since you want to talk about France, no they are not part of this crazed credit culture North America has
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springdays wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 11:11 pm
I lived in the UK for a couple of years when I was younger as part of an exchange program, and not once did I get asked to get a report there when I went to banks/got credit cards etc. My credit applications were all based on income and assets.

So they may have a presence but they definitely do not determine credit approval ie. they have not penetrated the market whatsoever- unlike North America

To your second point, US is North America

I didn't mention France - I said Australia, HK, but since you want to talk about France, no they are not part of this crazed credit culture North America has
Equifax is well entrenched in the UK as their admission of many millions of UK records potentially exposed in a file hack attack through the recent incident with US parent. Most major banks are clients of Equifax UK. Experian and Callcredit are the other two major agencies in the UK. When applying for credit you aren't asked for a "credit report" you give consent for the lender to access your credit report - usually buried in the fine print. A little googling will show that credit-reporting in the UK works pretty much like in North America and goes back decades. Places as diverse as Germany, South Africa, Malaysia, and Singapore all have advanced credit-reporting bureaus and dozens of other countries have some sort of system.
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FrancisBacon wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 9:00 pm
The consumer DOES have a choice: they don't HAVE to borrow money. In that case they're pretty much not on Equifax's radar.

What they don't have a choice about: they cannot borrow money, then default, and expect to keep it a secret from future lenders.
Not borrow money not rent tot work

Even if you don't ask money you still have Equifax's file . Why?
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springdays wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 6:54 pm
How are those quotes even ominous? It's clear that the inquiry is stating facts, as they stand, and have operated, but the Equifax **** up just showed it up and shined more scrutiny on it. The news always and often can cover historical background, as well as current circumstance - and this is exactly what this report is doing. Same with the inquiry. Up until these data breaches, this joke of an industry was not even scrutinized. That is the point. I don't understand how talking about the context of an industry is irrelevant or misleading. Equifax in fact does own the consumer data and there is no practical, easy choice to forgo that. Combined with this mega cluster * it became more obvious how much of an issue that is. Faith24 above spoke about opting out - for all pragmatic purposes, it is difficult and a roadblock for a consumer who wants and needs credit in this day and age. Again, context is king. Also these representatives that go to hearings will never say something genuinely ominous or headline grabbing - their role is to minimize damage and say the least they can get away with - hence why the questions are so important in hearings like that. Companies like Equifax which profit immensely off your and my personal data know what publicity and PR/media means. They aren't sending an idiot to a public inquiry which is recorded.
The report certainly is ominous and misleading, and this thread is proof of that. You chose to highlight the quote "The consumer does not have a choice on the data that you’re collecting". Then you said "Only in North America do these companies have such power." Scary. Except, that's all entirely false.

Yes, there was the point about opting out, but if you'd read further, Faith24 also pointed out that this would have changed nothing. Even if Equifax agreed not to share data with a certain lender, they would still hold that data and it would have been breached. As I'm saying, poor security is the only real story here.

As for data sharing, there are already procedures in place for this. Both internal policies and government legislation. For example, see here:

https://connect.experian.com/legal/fcra ... tions.html

What, exactly, is the issue with this? If it turned out Equifax was willfully circumventing these rules, that would be another story.
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springdays wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 11:11 pm
I lived in the UK for a couple of years when I was younger as part of an exchange program, and not once did I get asked to get a report there when I went to banks/got credit cards etc. My credit applications were all based on income and assets.

So they may have a presence but they definitely do not determine credit approval ie. they have not penetrated the market whatsoever- unlike North America

To your second point, US is North America

I didn't mention France - I said Australia, HK, but since you want to talk about France, no they are not part of this crazed credit culture North America has
My point was that wherever you get credit, there is a system of checking whether someone is creditworthy. That means a credit bureau. Unless you think a bank should handle it all internally? No - anywhere you want to get a mortgage, a loan, whatever, they will check your credit. Country is irrelevant.

In special cases can credit be granted without a 'normal' credit profile? Of course. If you have assets, or are a student. You can also get an international credit report.
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daverobev wrote:
Nov 10th, 2017 11:16 am
My point was that wherever you get credit, there is a system of checking whether someone is creditworthy. That means a credit bureau. Unless you think a bank should handle it all internally? No - anywhere you want to get a mortgage, a loan, whatever, they will check your credit. Country is irrelevant.

In special cases can credit be granted without a 'normal' credit profile? Of course. If you have assets, or are a student. You can also get an international credit report.
That is not true. Not all countries have bureaus with as much reach and power, profit and entrenchment as Equifax/Transunion. Nor is every decision dependent on Equifax's opinion.
Last edited by springdays on Nov 10th, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nmclean wrote:
Nov 10th, 2017 11:14 am
The report certainly is ominous and misleading, and this thread is proof of that. You chose to highlight the quote "The consumer does not have a choice on the data that you’re collecting". Then you said "Only in North America do these companies have such power." Scary. Except, that's all entirely false.

Yes, there was the point about opting out, but if you'd read further, Faith24 also pointed out that this would have changed nothing. Even if Equifax agreed not to share data with a certain lender, they would still hold that data and it would have been breached. As I'm saying, poor security is the only real story here.

As for data sharing, there are already procedures in place for this. Both internal policies and government legislation. For example, see here:

https://connect.experian.com/legal/fcra ... tions.html

What, exactly, is the issue with this? If it turned out Equifax was willfully circumventing these rules, that would be another story.
It is not ominous - it's a fact -they collect all your data without you having an effective choice.

If you believe it is ominous, it is because that is your read and in fact you are arguing from both sides of your mouth - circumventing your own argument by saying that fact is ominous AND THEN hey it's not an actual issue so shame on a newspaper for spelling it out. Absolutely silly.

And yes, newspapers do spell out facts and background. As to North America yes it's true - only in America is it as widespread, profitable and entrenched. You continue to cherrypick information and data and want to blame newspapers ho ho hum Faith24 referred to collection of data ie we have no effective and easy choice to opt out regardless of data breach

Here's some more inconvenient facts for you, hide if you think the data is ominous (ie scary facts embedded!)

https://www.cnbc.com/id/41498097


https://money.stackexchange.com/questio ... ernational
"Obama is the quintessence of all that is wrong with America today.. people looking at the superficial which is skin color and ignoring idiotic behavior." - the poster AndySixx 😲 :facepalm:
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springdays wrote:
Nov 10th, 2017 2:59 pm
It is not ominous - it's a fact -they collect all your data without you having an effective choice.

If you believe it is ominous, it is because that is your read and in fact you are arguing from both sides of your mouth - circumventing your own argument by saying that fact is ominous AND THEN hey it's not an actual issue so shame on a newspaper for spelling it out. Absolutely silly.
No: Shame on them for not spelling anything out and instead using implication through quoting out of context, and shame on you for failing to see the difference. You've accepted that an exchange like this took place, when there is no evidence that it did:

Masto: The consumer does not have a choice on the data that you’re collecting.
Barros: Correct.
Masto: Do you believe that is right?
Barros: I think it’s not my perspective to say it's right or wrong.

You're taking Masto's assertion as "fact" when it is not. In case you missed it, these are the facts:

https://connect.experian.com/legal/fcra ... tions.html

You've said there are "obvious" issues with the way they operate (which is described therein) and it needs to be scrutinized. I've scrutinized this and haven't found any. Could you point them out for me?

springdays wrote:
Nov 10th, 2017 2:59 pm
And yes, newspapers do spell out facts and background. As to North America yes it's true - only in America is it as widespread, profitable and entrenched. You continue to cherrypick information and data and want to blame newspapers ho ho hum Faith24 referred to collection of data ie we have no effective and easy choice to opt out regardless of data breach

Here's some more inconvenient facts for you, hide if you think the data is ominous (ie scary facts embedded!)

https://www.cnbc.com/id/41498097


https://money.stackexchange.com/questio ... ernational
I have to wonder if you actually read those links yourself...
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FrancisBacon wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 9:00 pm
The consumer DOES have a choice: they don't HAVE to borrow money. In that case they're pretty much not on Equifax's radar.

What they don't have a choice about: they cannot borrow money, then default, and expect to keep it a secret from future lenders.
nothing to do with borrowing. As long as you have bank account, a paid house you are in database. If you are not in database or hos not much history you are out of luck.
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springdays wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 9:31 pm
Anyone know what we do about that?

Only in North America do these companies have such power.
I don't think so...I know they were looking into the UK Equifax too.

However, I do believe that in extreme cases like this, companies like Equifax need full execution or also known as Corporate Capital Punishment. Put them out of business completely. Obviously they're incompetent and don't deserve to have government permission to exist (since they are regulated).

That would leave just Transunion in Canada...perhaps Experian would set up shop in Canada again.
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a lot of countries do fine without this "credit" bullshit.

its northamerica that can't survive without credit and interest. Wish we could live without this crap here.

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