Automotive

Everything about EVs!

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 22nd, 2017 10:15 am
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Aug 1, 2006
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hagbard wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 12:49 pm
Regular Car Reviews just did a youtube video on the Bolt (and electric cars in general).

Issues:
  • Tesla is creating a universal charging standard: Tesla's the one that didn't adopt an industry-wide standard and went with their own plug (and only in North America. In Europe, they're forced to use the Mennekes connector). Every other manufacturer uses J1772 for AC and CCS or CHAdeMO for DC fast charging. Tesla themselves joined the CCS group last year.
  • Someone can disconnect your charge: most other EVs lock the plug when actively charging, only allowing it to be disconnected once charging is complete.
    caraj4u wrote:
    Sep 11th, 2017 12:57 pm
    With more and more countries announcing the ban on sell of new petrol and diesel vehicles in the future and pushing for EV's EVs, i am wondering what will be the future of gas stations say after 15 years from now? Or they all will turn into charging stations and start charging $20 for a charge?
    There's little point in pondering what will happen in 15 years. EVs still make up a tiny fraction of vehicle sales (~1% worldwide) and most of these bans are on sales of new ICE vehicles only. The resale market will exist for a long time. As for pricing, there's no way they'll get away with charging $20 for $2-4 worth of electricity. The various DCFC charging stations funded by the Ontario government that charge outrageous fees like $15-$20/session + usage in turn see little to no usage (going by EV forum and PlugShare check ins).
Home automation, NOVO Magazine, photography, EVs.
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Sep 9, 2012
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caraj4u wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 12:57 pm
With more and more countries announcing the ban on sell of new petrol and diesel vehicles in the future and pushing for EV's, i am wondering what will be the future of gas stations say after 15 years from now? Or they all will turn into charging stations and start charging $20 for a charge?
There are over 250 million registered vehicles in the USA and over 25 million in Canada. When you add in things like gas powered lawn mowers, snow blowers, weed wackers, ski-doos, boats, etc, etc, it will be a lot longer than 15 years before gas stations go out of business.

They might start to see volumes drop and closing low traffic locations, but they'll still be around in 15 yrs.
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Feb 29, 2008
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JPTN wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 1:18 pm

[*]Someone can disconnect your charge: most other EVs lock the plug when actively charging, only allowing it to be disconnected once charging is complete.
The Volt sounds an alarm if the charger is disconnected while teh doors are locked. This is a user configurable option. I'm sure the Bolt has it.

Who would want to disconnect your charger? It's not like they can move your car out of the way to use the charging spot.
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Sep 8, 2014
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mr_raider wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 4:23 pm
Who would want to disconnect your charger? It's not like they can move your car out of the way to use the charging spot.
Very often charging cables are long enough to reach adjacent spots. I have unplugged a fully charged Volt (they have a charge amount on top of dash) once to charge my car when this was required.
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SmartElectric wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 5:17 pm
Very often charging cables are long enough to reach adjacent spots. I have unplugged a fully charged Volt (they have a charge amount on top of dash) once to charge my car when this was required.
But if the adjacent spot is free? it has it's own charging cable?
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He means an adjacent spot that doesn't have its own charger. Often the cables can reach to the next "regular" spot beside the charger or behind it. Depends though on where your charge port is located on your vehicle and how close you can park without interfering with the other driver being able to get in/out. But I've seen it in action a few times now - so it can work out for both parties.
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Jan 27, 2011
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mr_raider wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 6:15 pm
But if the adjacent spot is free? it has it's own charging cable?
No, most places two spots share one charging station.
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caraj4u wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 12:57 pm
With more and more countries announcing the ban on sell of new petrol and diesel vehicles in the future and pushing for EV's, i am wondering what will be the future of gas stations say after 15 years from now? Or they all will turn into charging stations and start charging $20 for a charge?
Hope Europe enjoys the sweet sweet smell of burning coal to power their electric cars.
"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” -HL Mencken
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hagbard wrote:
Sep 12th, 2017 8:44 am
Hope Europe enjoys the sweet sweet smell of burning coal to power their electric cars.
Almost 90% of new power in Europe from renewable sources in 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... urces-2016

The end of coal: EU energy companies pledge no new plants from 2020
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -from-2020

Image

Europe’s Coal Power Is Going up in Smoke -- Fast
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ne-thought

There's work to be done, but coal is on its way out.
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CanadianLurker wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 1:32 pm
There are over 250 million registered vehicles in the USA and over 25 million in Canada. When you add in things like gas powered lawn mowers, snow blowers, weed wackers, ski-doos, boats, etc, etc, it will be a lot longer than 15 years before gas stations go out of business.

They might start to see volumes drop and closing low traffic locations, but they'll still be around in 15 yrs.
I'm not disagreeing with you but I wouldn't say it can't happen.

How many 2-stroke engines do you see these days? They pretty much disappeared over the span of 10 years and I don't believe they were even actually banned (if I'm not mistaken, all that changed is that some lakes in California imposed rules where 2 stroke engines had to meet stricter pollution regulations and following that, all the manufacturers switched to 4 stroke). I do think it will take significantly longer for gas engines to disappear but I don't think 15 years is inconceivable especially if legislation is passed to prohibit them. How many people do you know that have 10 year old cars (probably not many)? How many with 15-20 year old cars? A lot can change in 15 years.


Back to the original response, I think it makes sense that gas stations will eventually have some paid recharging stations but I don't think gas stations as we know them will be replace fuel pumps by electrical "pumps". They (the gas stations) are designed to support "quick in - quick out" volume and even with DCQC, that doesn't work. Gas stations just aren't designed to have a dozen+ cars parked there for 30+ minutes to recharge (and 3-4 hours if it's not quick charge). I think malls / restaurants / coffee shops / etc (i.e. somewhere where there's something to do for those 30 minutes (or 60+ minutes if you are waiting for a charging station) while you are waiting.
Newbie
Sep 9, 2011
52 posts
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Toronto
I have a question regarding trying to actually purchase these EV vehicles.

I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to buying any vehicle, let alone an EV. As we all know demand for these vehicles are super high at least in the GTA.

I've read on how to negotiate getting the car at the dealer invoice price or potentially lower for regular cars.

Has anyone actually gotten an EV at or below the invoice price not including the sweet Ontario credit considering the high demand?

I'm looking to get the Volt or Ioniq Electric.

Input would be greatly appreciated.
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casey888 wrote:
Sep 12th, 2017 11:12 am
I have a question regarding trying to actually purchase these EV vehicles.

I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to buying any vehicle, let alone an EV. As we all know demand for these vehicles are super high at least in the GTA.

I've read on how to negotiate getting the car at the dealer invoice price or potentially lower for regular cars.

Has anyone actually gotten an EV at or below the invoice price not including the sweet Ontario credit considering the high demand?

I'm looking to get the Volt or Ioniq Electric.

Input would be greatly appreciated.
I would have to disagree with the statement "these vehicles are in super high demand" - EVs and PHEVs only sell 1 for every 25 regular car that's sold. That said, they are hard to find at dealerships as many don't want to stock too many of them and supply from the manufacturers can be hard to get depending on the make / model. I think your ability to negotiate is probably going to be hurt by that availability. I haven't looked into it but I believe if you want to get a Volt, you can just go to a dealer and order one and you'll get it in a reasonable amount of time but because it's not a car on the lot, I don't believe you'll have much negotiating power.
[OP]
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Apr 20, 2011
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Lot models are in high demand as they're scarce/sold out.
But as Michel said, you should be able to order one. (With exception of models that have exceeded build orders and are not available for new orders, of course)

Your best bet for price is to find a dealer that sells many of them. Only guaranteed way to get invoice is to be in the employee or supplier price plans. But not everyone has access to that.
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Sep 8, 2014
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Toronto, ON
I have direct experience.

Volt - Chevy dealer can move $1500 on occasion, but some dealers treat the Ontario rebate as the discount, and they even say that to your face.

Ioniq - Hyundai dealer refused to budge on MSRP. Too much demand. Effectively sold out now anyway.

Smart - I negotiated $4000 off MSRP in 2013. I have a deposit on a new Smart ED and the first offer from the dealer was $2500 off MSRP.

Tesla - No negotiation. Inventory cars are reduced price based on age on lot, km driven as loaner, etc. Discount (if any) posted on Tesla website.

Nissan - Are willing to budge on MSRP on remaining 2017 inventory. Reservations on 2018, but no fixed pricing besides MSRP announced.

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