Automotive

Everything about EVs!

  • Last Updated:
  • Dec 8th, 2018 8:36 pm
Member
Dec 19, 2015
460 posts
231 upvotes
Calgary, AB
Martin (deal addict) wrote:
Nov 13th, 2018 4:53 pm
That is all true but not really relevant here.

If Tesla as a start up can become worth more than GM by developing BEVs then there is no argument about financial risk to GM of using some of their mighty resources and manufacturing experience to do the same.

I am sure that institutional GM shareholders are not overly pleased with the way GM strategy (if you can call it that) has played out.
Market cap is pretty irrelevant in this. Just look at the recent price fluctuations (around 25%). Tesla are a pretty high risk holding. Even a company like GM that has a pretty poor share price record isn't that risky. Market Cap is also a bit of a mystical thing, especially for companies like Tesla that have a bit of a cult following, it's a suggestion of what it may be worth some time in the future.

I assume you'll never agree that a company like Ford dumping it's ICE lineup and with an EV lineup, while doubling the price of the equivalent vehicle, is a suicide mission for them. That's what it would have to do to "sate" the EV zelots.

Companies like GM ARE using some of their might to do so, the Bolt and Volt are two prime examples. The issue seems to be they aren't doing it fast enought, because so many EV enthusiasts seem to have their head in the clouds, assuming that more people would be happy with swapping out their $30k sedan or CUV for a $50k 200 mile supermini (or a $60k 300 mile sedan).
Martin (deal addict) wrote:
Nov 13th, 2018 6:07 pm
Funny Tesla isn't stopped by battery technology and cost LOL.
Tesla are producing a vehicle that costs multiple times the average car though. They're getting away with it by going for the high end, not the mainstream, AND selling largely to early adopters who are happy to spend extra to be in the "best"/newest technology. The main market for the big companies are not those sort of people. Now that begs the question - should BMW/MB/Audi have invested more in earlier. And that question could be a yes, but lets' remember that BMW do have a dedicated BEV in the form of the i3, so they weren't sitting on their laurels, and BMW/MB and Audi will all have a BEV midsize crossover on the market before Tesla (even if the range won't be as long, and the price may be a bit high).
Member
Dec 19, 2015
460 posts
231 upvotes
Calgary, AB
In other more relevant news. Tesla are installing CCS ports on their European Model 3's AND adding CCS ports to their superchargers.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-ccs ... x-adaptor/

A good move IMO. It's forced by legislation, but will be good for them in the long run (Tesla owners can use the more widespread CCS system) and will hopefully mean Tesla chargers may also be usable by other CCS vehicles, making the overall charging network more unified.

Hopefully something like this happens in the near future in North America.
Jr. Member
May 2, 2017
130 posts
125 upvotes
Andy34 wrote:
Nov 14th, 2018 4:42 pm
In other more relevant news. Tesla are installing CCS ports on their European Model 3's AND adding CCS ports to their superchargers.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-ccs ... x-adaptor/

A good move IMO. It's forced by legislation, but will be good for them in the long run (Tesla owners can use the more widespread CCS system) and will hopefully mean Tesla chargers may also be usable by other CCS vehicles, making the overall charging network more unified.

Hopefully something like this happens in the near future in North America.
They could make a ton of money opening up their charging network to other vehicles. I would love to see that, and for them to make the switch in North America as well.

That would leave the only holdout as the Japanese companies (Nissan, Mitsubishi), who seem to want to continue with CHAdeMO. Maybe Tesla switching to CCS in Europe will push them to switch to CCS.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 9, 2012
2808 posts
1827 upvotes
Oakville, ON
TheTall wrote:
Nov 15th, 2018 10:21 am
They could make a ton of money opening up their charging network to other vehicles. I would love to see that, and for them to make the switch in North America as well.

That would leave the only holdout as the Japanese companies (Nissan, Mitsubishi), who seem to want to continue with CHAdeMO. Maybe Tesla switching to CCS in Europe will push them to switch to CCS.
They’d have to also consider how much money they may lose from sales when their network becomes too crowded.

There are already locations that are quite busy and if non-Tesla vehicles start to crowd out Tesla owners everywhere from charging it will probably lead to new buyers avoiding a new Model S or X if charging is viewed as inconvenient.

There’s less cachet and perceived value in the high priced S and X if the new buyer fears that they’ll be milling around idely waiting too often to plug in and charge up.

So making money $5 or $10 at a time on charging has to weighed against any lost sales because it scares away Model S and X buyers.
Deal Addict
Oct 30, 2006
1546 posts
416 upvotes
GTA
CanadianLurker wrote:
Nov 15th, 2018 1:44 pm
They’d have to also consider how much money they may lose from sales when their network becomes too crowded.

There are already locations that are quite busy and if non-Tesla vehicles start to crowd out Tesla owners everywhere from charging it will probably lead to new buyers avoiding a new Model S or X if charging is viewed as inconvenient.

There’s less cachet and perceived value in the high priced S and X if the new buyer fears that they’ll be milling around idely waiting too often to plug in and charge up.

So making money $5 or $10 at a time on charging has to weighed against any lost sales because it scares away Model S and X buyers.
True but with Tesla no longer offering free supercharging to S & X purchasers, the demand will decrease amongst new owners. Charging at home is cheaper. So they just need to add capacity to the crowded areas. Could also charge surge or area specific rates for non-tesla vehicles, lots of options I suppose to expand the network and access to it.

But yeah, I want it kept all for me and my fellow Tesla owners :) I wish though there was the ability to access other network's level 3/4 chargers (without buying a expensive adaptor), a CCS plug would do that for Tesla in NA.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 6, 2006
1197 posts
217 upvotes
Back in May, I submitted my application for the EV charging station incentive... guess what? The money finally made it to me!

It took 6 months, but it made it.

Had to get it in the system asap knowing Doug Ford and the PCs were gonna scrap it all if (when) they won.
Deal Guru
Mar 22, 2004
11324 posts
1724 upvotes
RFD
Well I got to try out which is best in the winter and you guys are correct in that no regen is best. You can get away with lowest pressure of regen, but max regen is out of the question. I tried it for the very first time on an empty stretch of road not plowed and sped up a bit and let go abruptly and I did feel the vehicle begin to lose control and fishtail a little bit, so I imagine going even faster, there is a greater possibility the vehicle might cause an inexperienced driver to react wrong and lose control of the vehicle. No regen and or level 1 regen worked clearly the best on top of the snow. On the road paved, increased levels are fine. Thanks for your help and feedback. Now I have a better feel of what I can do. Slow and steady wins the race in winter.
TheTall wrote:
Nov 12th, 2018 3:26 pm

On my eGolf, I found that regen off was the best in the snow (just leave it in D). Tires have a specific amount of grip, that grip can be used in 3 ways - steering, accelerating or braking. If you have regen on, you are essentially using some of the grip for braking, which means you do not have maximum grip available for steering. For example, going into a corner in the snow, you should not be braking while executing the turn (brake before the turn, then coast through the turn). With regen on, you would essentially be braking while turning unless you were pushing on the accelerator pedal slightly to negate the regen.
b166er1337 wrote:
Nov 12th, 2018 5:29 pm

Reduce regen when road is icy or covered in snow. When road is clear, max regen is the best.
Member
Dec 19, 2015
460 posts
231 upvotes
Calgary, AB
CanadianLurker wrote:
Nov 15th, 2018 1:44 pm
They’d have to also consider how much money they may lose from sales when their network becomes too crowded.

There are already locations that are quite busy and if non-Tesla vehicles start to crowd out Tesla owners everywhere from charging it will probably lead to new buyers avoiding a new Model S or X if charging is viewed as inconvenient.

There’s less cachet and perceived value in the high priced S and X if the new buyer fears that they’ll be milling around idely waiting too often to plug in and charge up.

So making money $5 or $10 at a time on charging has to weighed against any lost sales because it scares away Model S and X buyers.
I think it’s more a future option rather than a tomorrow option. With an ever increasing number of chargers there should (hopefully) be a decline in the number per charger.

It may be that Tesla offloads its charging system entirely in the future if CCS becomes prevelant enough that the benefits of having a separate system is minimal.

And in truck related news:



Rival have released a teaser of their electric pickup. Official announcement should be in LA in a couple of weeks but expect a short bed midsize Tacoma type truck designed for adventurous types with a range of 200-400 Miles and a price around $50-100k (depending on range option).

I’m personally thinking Xterra type vehicle rather than off road Tacoma with truck camper/overlanding rig, but I could be wrong.

Possibly a large frunk for storage and a 5’ bed for light truck stuff (bikes, RTT etc)? At a guess I’m also thinking SUV like payload and towing (so 1000lb and 5,000lb respectively) but that may depend on which battery option is chosen.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
46639 posts
12684 upvotes
For those in Ontario, would you buy any current BEV (including a Tesla) without the EVIP?

For current owners, would you repurchase your BEV without the rebate?

How much of a premium over a similar ICEV would you consider fair for a 200 km winter range BEV?
Deal Fanatic
Nov 24, 2013
5155 posts
1768 upvotes
Kingston, ON
alanbrenton wrote:
Nov 16th, 2018 12:18 pm
For those in Ontario, would you buy any current BEV (including a Tesla) without the EVIP?

For current owners, would you repurchase your BEV without the rebate?

How much of a premium over a similar ICEV would you consider fair for a 200 km winter range BEV?
I would buy and am continuing to monitor EV options even without the EVIP...
But!! I'm not going to go outside my desired size/class of vehicle just to get an EV. To this end I'm looking at upcoming PHEV options from Ford and others in the large/midsize SUV range. PHEV is probably how this'll end up, because my needs are ~100km/day during the week, and a max range of 500km highway for round-trip 200km-each-way road-trips without having to worry about finding a charger. We're close, but we're not there yet.

I don't have a singular price premium in mind. If a vehicle can eliminate or nearly eliminate gas purchases on our daily commute, that $/month reduction can be compared against the additional $/month finance payment versus a non-plug-in. Saving $200-$300/mo in gas (we drive a lot) can support buying a significantly more expensive vehicle.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Sep 8, 2014
651 posts
491 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Thousands of Tesla S + X sold in Ontario, Alberta, etc without rebates.
If the product is great, the rebate doesn't matter.

I personally will never own another gas power vehicle of any kind, car, truck, nor lawn mower, snow thrower, power tool or otherwise.
Electric is here, and I will use my spending power to buy products that shift the market.
Deal Addict
Nov 8, 2017
1104 posts
279 upvotes
Still expecting a sharp drop of EV sales in Canada in Q4!
Deal Fanatic
Nov 24, 2013
5155 posts
1768 upvotes
Kingston, ON
Bb0231 wrote:
Nov 16th, 2018 12:58 pm
Still expecting a sharp drop of EV sales in Canada in Q4!
All signs would point to yes:
-EVIP ended
-Tesla delivering as many units as possible to the US while customers still get their full $7,500 tax credit
-Snowstorms in November

Q4 will pale next to Q2 and Q3.
Member
Feb 14, 2018
297 posts
143 upvotes
SmartElectric wrote:
Nov 16th, 2018 12:45 pm
Thousands of Tesla S + X sold in Ontario, Alberta, etc without rebates.
If the product is great, the rebate doesn't matter.

I personally will never own another gas power vehicle of any kind, car, truck, nor lawn mower, snow thrower, power tool or otherwise.
Electric is here, and I will use my spending power to buy products that shift the market.
Personally I will hang on to the gas powered snowblower for a bit longer, don’t see anything electric in that segment that can do the job. Though the lawn mower will probably go next year (EGO); the weed eater went a few years ago (RYOBI).
Member
Apr 14, 2016
223 posts
30 upvotes
SmartElectric wrote:
Nov 16th, 2018 12:45 pm
Thousands of Tesla S + X sold in Ontario, Alberta, etc without rebates.
If the product is great, the rebate doesn't matter.

I personally will never own another gas power vehicle of any kind, car, truck, nor lawn mower, snow thrower, power tool or otherwise.
Electric is here, and I will use my spending power to buy products that shift the market.
Tesla owners did not buy Tesla because of the rebate. SURE it helped but no one buys 80k1 car because they can get a 14k off.
People buy Tesla because it is a new cool thing to own we you have money. Before BMW and MB were cool and showed your financial status now Tesla is the new yo I am rich.
So rebate or not Tesla will sell. What about other affordable to most EV cars. Is regular Joe gonna buy a EV car for 50K instead of 36K ? NO . Joe like me wil not.

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