Automotive

Everything about EVs!

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  • Oct 22nd, 2019 6:26 pm
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Nov 24, 2013
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Kingston, ON
alanbrenton wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 4:04 pm
I meant a lemon. That means I was hoping his Tesla will be way above the average Tesla reliability.

I meant for his car to be above average quality lol.

You are right, I never wish ill on people. I don't have time for that nonsense.
In automotive terms, a "Lemon" is a car that's had so many defects/warranty repairs that the manufacturer is forced to buy it back under "lemon laws," or else just an exaggerative appellation for an unreliable car. Wishing someone to have a lemon is to wish for them to have an unreliable one. This usage is consistent with a lemon being a sour fruit.

"A peach" is the common term for something that's in great shape / holds up well.
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Mike15 wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 5:33 pm
In automotive terms, a "Lemon" is a car that's had so many defects/warranty repairs that the manufacturer is forced to buy it back under "lemon laws," or else just an exaggerative appellation for an unreliable car. Wishing someone to have a lemon is to wish for them to have an unreliable one. This usage is consistent with a lemon being a sour fruit.

"A peach" is the common term for something that's in great shape / holds up well.
Got it. Thanks for the educational response. What do you think an unreliable unreliable car means?

It's almost like multiplying two negative integers.

I don't have to follow rules in writing when I am trying to be creative right?

How do you explain or describe a well built Tesla? Peachy doesn't just have the connotation.
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Jul 4, 2004
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Metrolinx removes 12 EV charging stations at GO stations

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.4972890

Doesn't affect me but I was pretty surprised to read this. Seems pretty short-sighted. They state very little usage since installation in 2017 but I'd be more interested in usage during the past year (according to this article https://www.building.ca/electric-car-sa ... t-in-2009/, more EV sales in 2018 than 3 previous years combined ...). They also state $2000 / year operation fee which seems really high; after the cost of the EVSE and the installation cost, I wouldn't expect it to cost very much to operate ...
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Apr 27, 2004
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michelb wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 8:49 am
Metrolinx removes 12 EV charging stations at GO stations

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.4972890

Doesn't affect me but I was pretty surprised to read this. Seems pretty short-sighted. They state very little usage since installation in 2017 but I'd be more interested in usage during the past year (according to this article https://www.building.ca/electric-car-sa ... t-in-2009/, more EV sales in 2018 than 3 previous years combined ...). They also state $2000 / year operation fee which seems really high; after the cost of the EVSE and the installation cost, I wouldn't expect it to cost very much to operate ...
I agree its short sighted to remove them. But they were so few at any station that might as well have been none to begin with. I think maybe 1 or 2 per site which is pretty silly. So unless you got to the station for the first train, good luck finding an available charger. It was poorly planned from the start and doomed to fail.
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Oct 5, 2008
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michelb wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 8:49 am
Metrolinx removes 12 EV charging stations at GO stations

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.4972890

Doesn't affect me but I was pretty surprised to read this. Seems pretty short-sighted. They state very little usage since installation in 2017 but I'd be more interested in usage during the past year (according to this article https://www.building.ca/electric-car-sa ... t-in-2009/, more EV sales in 2018 than 3 previous years combined ...). They also state $2000 / year operation fee which seems really high; after the cost of the EVSE and the installation cost, I wouldn't expect it to cost very much to operate ...
Seems silly to remove them, but i they aren't being used, they aren't being used.

How did they work?

I mean, i assume you couldn't leave your car parked while plugged in all day right? I'm guessing most people parking at the GO station are commuters who are leaving their cars there for 8+ hours per day.

So, who would actually use them?

I would imagine the first thing people do when they get to the GO station is find parking then get on the train, not hang around to charge their car then try to find a spot afterwards.

Also at the end of the day, unless you don't have the range to get home, who would hang around to charge?
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neptune wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 9:02 am
I agree its short sighted to remove them. But they were so few at any station that might as well have been none to begin with. I think maybe 1 or 2 per site which is pretty silly. So unless you got to the station for the first train, good luck finding an available charger. It was poorly planned from the start and doomed to fail.
That's a good point. I'm guessing that the lucky 1 or 2 that get there first end up blocking the station all day even if they only charge for 1 hour.

That's why for locations that people are there for a long time and won't move their car after charging, it's better to have 120V outlets. I wonder they could easily (and would even bother doing it) convert the 1 or 2 240v40A outlets to 4 or 8 120V15A outlets. (Although others have brought up the issue of possible theft by leaving your EVSE out (I think in my LEAF I can set mine to lock although I've never looked into it)
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Swerny wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 9:26 am
Seems silly to remove them, but i they aren't being used, they aren't being used.

How did they work?

I mean, i assume you couldn't leave your car parked while plugged in all day right? I'm guessing most people parking at the GO station are commuters who are leaving their cars there for 8+ hours per day.

So, who would actually use them?

I would imagine the first thing people do when they get to the GO station is find parking then get on the train, not hang around to charge their car then try to find a spot afterwards.

Also at the end of the day, unless you don't have the range to get home, who would hang around to charge?
Part of the issue and the answers to your questions is that many times I saw the spots occupied with with EVs or PHEVs not charging and just occupying the spot because it was a good spot. This is because the parking spots fill up quickly in GO lots and especially the closer ones. Never saw any enforcement.

Even when. BEV or PHEV was actually plugged in it would indeed be there all day. I think the cost was like $2 for a session or something like that. That’s a cheap fee to arrive at the GO lot late and still get a good parking spot. So the ones that did actually charge probably only did so because they were afraid of getting a ticket.

The better solution would have been to put in more spots but only make them Level 1. Would have been cheaper to set up and cheaper to run and probably would have seen more use.
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Oct 26, 2003
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CanadianLurker wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 9:58 am
Part of the issue and the answers to your questions is that many times I saw the spots occupied with with EVs or PHEVs not charging and just occupying the spot because it was a good spot. This is because the parking spots fill up quickly in GO lots and especially the closer ones. Never saw any enforcement.

Even when. BEV or PHEV was actually plugged in it would indeed be there all day. I think the cost was like $2 for a session or something like that. That’s a cheap fee to arrive at the GO lot late and still get a good parking spot. So the ones that did actually charge probably only did so because they were afraid of getting a ticket.

The better solution would have been to put in more spots but only make them Level 1. Would have been cheaper to set up and cheaper to run and probably would have seen more use.
when you say level 1, do you mean just a plug or the actual station with cord?
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Sep 8, 2014
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michelb wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 8:49 am
Metrolinx removes 12 EV charging stations at GO stations ... They also state $2000 / year operation fee which seems really high; after the cost of the EVSE and the installation cost
FFS, $2k per year for fees, sigh, really stupid decision to put in charging that required paying a 3rd party for the billing and charging system.

Could have just put in 120V 15A plugs with no fee to use and called it a day.

$360 yearly cost for electricity per plug

MATH : 8 hours per day usage (assumes car needs 8 hours of charge, most wont) * 1.5kW (power draw) * $.15/kWh (assumes no bulk electricity deal, just standard daytime rate) *200 (days per year)
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SmartElectric wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 1:30 pm
FFS, $2k per year for fees, sigh, really stupid decision to put in charging that required paying a 3rd party for the billing and charging system.

Could have just put in 120V 15A plugs with no fee to use and called it a day.

$360 yearly cost for electricity per plug

MATH : 8 hours per day usage (assumes car needs 8 hours of charge, most wont) * 1.5kW (power draw) * $.15/kWh (assumes no bulk electricity deal, just standard daytime rate) *200 (days per year)
might as well install no billing charger (free usage), then no admin issues, cost of power can be funded via parking fee.
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Sep 9, 2012
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divx wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 1:24 pm
when you say level 1, do you mean just a plug or the actual station with cord?
I think for a public place it should be a proper station with a cord and not merely a plug. Would cost a bit more than a bare bones plug but still not as much as a Level 2.
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CanadianLurker wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 2:11 pm
I think for a public place it should be a proper station with a cord and not merely a plug. Would cost a bit more than a bare bones plug but still not as much as a Level 2.
What kind of Plug? the cost a 120V 15AMP plug would be hundreds. Cost to install a station of any kind is thousands. My municipality paid about $10K per level 2. The wiring is very expensive to run and the mounting etc. For the same wiring would could get 6-8 regular plugs on the circuit. the Station which costs like $4-5K is eliminated so now the $5K for install is spread over 7 plugs or ~$700 each to install.

Rough math but probably about right for a proper install of a "regular" outlet
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wackojacko wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 2:32 pm
What kind of Plug? the cost a 120V 15AMP plug would be hundreds. Cost to install a station of any kind is thousands. My municipality paid about $10K per level 2. The wiring is very expensive to run and the mounting etc. For the same wiring would could get 6-8 regular plugs on the circuit. the Station which costs like $4-5K is eliminated so now the $5K for install is spread over 7 plugs or ~$700 each to install.

Rough math but probably about right for a proper install of a "regular" outlet
Whether it’s just a simple wall plug or it’s got a hardwired J1772 cord and a cord hanger my point was either option would be significantly cheaper than providing Level 2 stations.

The use case is people parking for the day. It’s always going to be opportunity charging rather than necessity charging.

I cannot understand how they expected anything more than 1 charge per day at each unit when there’s no constant turnover. Everybody arrives in morning and leaves in afternoon, we’ll not everybody but like a goo 95%. A Level 2 at a mall will get turned over a few times a day easily given most people don’t spend 8 hrs at the mall.

Their pilot program could have had 4 or 5 times as many participants for the same or lower costs if they actually thought it through properly. All they did was confirm that a dumb approach wouldn’t work.
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CanadianLurker wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 4:32 pm
Whether it’s just a simple wall plug or it’s got a hardwired J1772 cord and a cord hanger my point was either option would be significantly cheaper than providing Level 2 stations.

The use case is people parking for the day. It’s always going to be opportunity charging rather than necessity charging.

I cannot understand how they expected anything more than 1 charge per day at each unit when there’s no constant turnover. Everybody arrives in morning and leaves in afternoon, we’ll not everybody but like a goo 95%. A Level 2 at a mall will get turned over a few times a day easily given most people don’t spend 8 hrs at the mall.

Their pilot program could have had 4 or 5 times as many participants for the same or lower costs if they actually thought it through properly. All they did was confirm that a dumb approach wouldn’t work.
people on plugshare are angry when someone advertise level 1 charging though, they don't consider level 1 to be meant for EV.
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Feb 19, 2004
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SmartElectric wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 1:30 pm
FFS, $2k per year for fees, sigh, really stupid decision to put in charging that required paying a 3rd party for the billing and charging system.

Could have just put in 120V 15A plugs with no fee to use and called it a day.

$360 yearly cost for electricity per plug

MATH : 8 hours per day usage (assumes car needs 8 hours of charge, most wont) * 1.5kW (power draw) * $.15/kWh (assumes no bulk electricity deal, just standard daytime rate) *200 (days per year)
I totally agree with you. Clearly the VP of Finance and team at Metrolinx is terrible with no business case skills. Horrible management.

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