fight your traffic tickets, you're clogging up the system but thats okay.

[Alvito]

Hey guys, recently a lot of you have been PMing me asking me how to file for disclosure and stuff like that. So instead of replying to each PM, I'm just going to post everything I know in here.

Section 1: I got a Traffic ticket, what now?

First off, it doesn't matter what the traffic ticket was for, fight it. In some cases the cop may not show up, and then the prosecution will have to drop the charges. But don't bet on this to be the case, you have to be prepared as well.

So you've got the ticket and you're bummed out. What should you do? Go to the court house on the back of the ticket, and file for a court date to challenge the police officer's evidence. You will receive a letter in the mail in a few months telling you when your court date is.

Next step is to file for disclosure.

Disclosure is what the officer wrote down when he pulled you over. Which street, which lane you were in, a short description of what happened (speeding, illegal turn... etc) and details about your car. Why is disclosure important to you? Simply, if you are to prepare any sort of credible defense, you will need to know what evidence they have against you in order to try and refute or disprove it.

For example, lets say I received disclosure, and the officer wrote down I was driving a purple car. On my registration it says my car is red. When the officer swears in at the trial and says purple car, speeding... blah blah blah... when it is my turn to cross examine him, I will ask "What colour was the car again?" He'll say "purple", I'll ask one more time, "You are sure it is purple?" and he will respond "yes", then I whip out my registration, and the justice will see the word "RED" and think the cop isnt a credible witness anymore. I do not know if that is enough to raise enough doubt, but purple and red are two totally different colours, if it was light blue and dark blue, then maybe. But red and purple, the justice should throw it out.

So you can see how it is important to know what the officer is going to say before he says it. That is why you need disclosure.

Here is what you need to do:

Model your letter after this... http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/disclose.htm

Mail this letter to the prosecutors office and the court house. The court house address can be found on the back of the ticket and the trial notice letter they send you. For the prosecutors office, you will have to call the number on the back of the ticket, and ask a representative, make sure to take down their name so you can say that in court if your letter doesn't reach its destination. Also send more than one letter, this will look great on your part if you dont receive it, but have proof that you sent it numerous times. I sent mine out twice and got no response, at the initial trial the justice did ask me how many times I sent it, and I said twice, 2 months before the trial date, and one month before when there was no response.

DO NOT PUT YOUR PHONE NUMBER DOWN. Here's why: When they have your disclosure ready for you, they call you and tell you to pick it up. That's them just trying to inconvenience you. So don't put your number down. At my initial trial, the prosecutor thought he was a big shot, saying I didn't put my phone number down there, as thats how they notify me to come pick it up. Well, I quickly replied by saying that I had my mailing address there, and if he was lacking information he could have mailed me a letter asking for my phone number, so he could call me to tell me to come get my package. Sounds ridiculous I know.

Because I did not put my phone number down, I did not get my disclosure, the justice agreed that I am entitled to my disclosure, especially after having the decency to make the request twice. (see how your persistence will only help your cause?) So anyway, the date got pushed back a month and 2 weeks, thus pushing it well over a year since the offence date. Why is this a good thing? Keep on reading!


Charter of Rights and freedoms section 11 subsection B.

Don't be afraid. Making use of the charter of rights and freedoms makes Trudeau happy. This section states that we have the right to a fair and speedy trial. Speedy.... ironic I know, but it just means our trial date isn't too far away from the offence date. But don't get confused, if you purposely postpone your court date, you will not be allowed to use this argument, it has to be done through no fault of your own.

Fill out this form: http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/question.htm

And mail it to the two attorney general's listed below, and again to the court house and prosecutor's office.

Make sure you do this at least 15 days before the trial date. I suggest mailing it 1 month before. It looks better =).

Send it through registered mail if you wish, and if you havent received disclosure, now would be a good time to send an additional request. Canada post charges 6.95 for registered mail, sending both letters in one go saves you some money .

Okay, so you've sent all your letters and the trial date is here.

There are a few scenarios that may happen.

1. cop doesn't show up.
2. you didn't get disclosure, when the justice asks, are you ready to proceed, say no, i have not been given disclosure despite making several attempts to get it.

Now, the prosecution will try to pressure you into going ahead with the trial, DO NOT! Say you want to have your disclosure first, so you can take a look at it and be prepare. THIS IS YOUR RIGHT! The justice will agree with you if you made several attempts to get it well before the trial date.

3. you get your disclosure and find something that might help in your defence and you have prepared cross examination questions and you feel confident.
4. the trial date is over a year from the offence date and you will make the case that this infringes your right to a speedy trial (11b).
5. you were not given disclosure, they give you disclosure at the trial, and postpone the trial to another day so that you may have some time to look it over and prepare yourself. You want to have no say in this so that you can say you had no part in delaying the process.

So the 2nd court date arrives, its well over a year now, you sent your constitutional question to the proper places AGAIN (because this is a new trial date now) and you use 11b as an argument.

These are all the positive outcomes of this. Of course there is a chance, disclosure doesnt help you, or your trial date is 6 months away from the offence date, if thats the case, and the charge is serious, I would go seek help from a lawyer. If not, I would just try to bargain with the prosecution and see if they will reduce the charge.

But to me the whole point of this is to beat the ticket completely. You don't want that on your record, you want to keep your insurance premiums down. And by keeping this ticket in the court system for however many months, thats how many months it doesn't count against your insurance, because technically you haven't been found guilty yet.

So, everyone fight your tickets, big or small!

p.s. if there are any typos or mistakes, please pm me so i can fix it, hopefully we can get a sticky on this as there is some good information that a lot of people have been asking me about recently.

And if there are any "you did the crime u do the time" people posting in here, I respect your opinion, but we don't need it in here, and I will ask the moderators to remove it.

thanks.



Source:

http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/

and

My own personal experience

[selpats]

Repost!

There already is a discussion about this going on in another thread...

[Alvito]

Repost!

There already is a discussion about this going on in another thread...

Oh which one? I did a search and didn't see any topics with a similar title.

[ES_Revenge]

LOL. IBTL

[Menace]

A good thread

I still enjoy this snowy weekend. IBLy

[Alvito]

why would this get locked?

it is a legitimate opinion of selpats.

[iluvmikeharris]

Don't fight your tickets, you waste time. you were caught, pay your monies to the government who needs it for stuff.

It sure wasn't a waste of my time - I avoided an insurance surcharge for years to come, and of course paying the ticket.

Even a parking ticket is worth paying in Toronto, as it could take years to reach trial and they removed the incentive to pay by eliminating the voluntary reduced fine payment.

[h2o-]

Don't fight your tickets, you waste time. you were caught, pay your monies to the government who needs it for stuff.

Sorry Alvito but I would be going to fight!

[Alvito]

It sure wasn't a waste of my time - I avoided an insurance surcharge for years to come, and of course paying the ticket.

Even a parking ticket is worth paying in Toronto, as it could take years to reach trial and they removed the incentive to pay by eliminating the voluntary reduced fine payment.

I agree.

Sorry Alvito but I would be going to fight!

Good! Fight it!

This thread was created for selpats

[iluvmikeharris]

I agree.



Good! Fight it!

This thread was created for selpats

I just realized that - found your thread that he got locked up

[iluvmikeharris]

Great way to tie up our court system and cost us all more in the end.

How about taking responsibility for yourself and pay the tickets that are justified? Then drive more responsibly. Simple really.

Knowing that fighting these tickets upsets ladies like you makes it all the more satisfying

[Alvito]

Knowing that fighting these tickets upsets ladies like you makes it all the more satisfying

moderators hate me. I do something good and they let selpats ruin it.

i complained about his actions several times and yet they let him run wild and piss off everyone in there.

[ES_Revenge]

why would this get locked?

it is a legitimate opinion of selpats.

Because any thread started in sarcasm usually gets locked. However it looks like you've changed the whole thing around?

The other one (the first one) got locked?

[Alvito]

Because any thread started in sarcasm usually gets locked. However it looks like you've changed the whole thing around?

The other one (the first one) got locked?

the first one got locked.

this thread was made for selpats to voice his opinion. i was tired of him doing it in the wrong thread.

[65505201]

I loved the part where the OP burned selpat when:

The problem is everyone's definition of speeding 'safely'. The 17-year old who killed a kid about two blocks from my house last year said he was speeding safely too...

Yeah, because things like that never happen in your little bubble do they?
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs....11/1003/NEWS02

"There was a 16-year-old driver who had his license for less than a month who came over a sharp rise ... on a dare that he could get air coming across that hill,"

Trying to get airborne and speeding are the same, eh selpat?