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Firefighters making 90k, DB pension, and 4 day weekends

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  • Mar 4th, 2018 10:37 am
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Deal Fanatic
Nov 21, 2011
8251 posts
1378 upvotes
Edmonton
burnt69 wrote:
Feb 10th, 2018 11:44 pm
Those are all arguments for lower compensation as there is an element of satiating altruism that may compensate for lower cash compensation.

But we should let market principles determine the price of firefighters and all public servants for that matter.



Yeah I don't think that many people actually want to do a job that they're unqualified for. But when people are qualified, it is tragic to exclude them, and overpay for those who are included.
Lol wtf are you talking about? Those are arguments against your implication people are applying to be firefighters solely due to compensation
Deal Addict
Oct 6, 2015
1300 posts
685 upvotes
clseea wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 12:14 am
Lol wtf are you talking about? Those are arguments against your implication people are applying to be firefighters solely due to compensation
I disagree, those are arguments for lower compensation, as part of their compensation is based on those altruistic factors. Much like some people volunteer completely for altruistic reasons, even if they could work for pay.
Penalty Box
Aug 10, 2010
781 posts
183 upvotes
Mars.
malecoke wrote:
Feb 10th, 2018 10:23 pm
I didnt know public employees should be working for free on their days off.
This is precisely why so many of us look down on pub sector employees. Many of us take great pride in working above a 9-5, versus many pub sec employees go "nope, I'm not officially on duty right now so I'm not going to work".
Don't be a cooch.
Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2013
1718 posts
442 upvotes
Woodbridge
superangrypenguin wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 8:58 am
This is precisely why so many of us look down on pub sector employees. Many of us take great pride in working above a 9-5, versus many pub sec employees go "nope, I'm not officially on duty right now so I'm not going to work".
This argument is silly. There are plenty of private sector workers who find a lot of value in being able to go home at 5, not take work with them, and enjoy their evenings and time off., There are plenty of public sector employees who bring work home with them and regularly work on evenings and weekends. There is also the flip side. This petty conflict between the public sector and private sector is absurd, with both side representing an incredibly broad range of professions and jobs and each side cherry-picking the worst of the other to support their arguments.
Deal Addict
Aug 1, 2007
2001 posts
472 upvotes
superangrypenguin wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 8:58 am
This is precisely why so many of us look down on pub sector employees. Many of us take great pride in working above a 9-5, versus many pub sec employees go "nope, I'm not officially on duty right now so I'm not going to work".
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Deal Addict
Aug 1, 2007
2001 posts
472 upvotes
jvnanu wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 9:55 am
This argument is silly. There are plenty of private sector workers who find a lot of value in being able to go home at 5, not take work with them, and enjoy their evenings and time off., There are plenty of public sector employees who bring work home with them and regularly work on evenings and weekends. There is also the flip side. This petty conflict between the public sector and private sector is absurd, with both side representing an incredibly broad range of professions and jobs and each side cherry-picking the worst of the other to support their arguments.
Give it up....you're trying to talk sense into the guy who thinks nypd makes 37k a year.
Deal Addict
Sep 22, 2013
1755 posts
593 upvotes
burnt69 wrote:
Feb 10th, 2018 8:17 pm
Very uncalled for. I haven't even a fraction of the physical strength required to be a firefighter, and accordingly, would never waste my time with such a career path for which my unsuccess would be pretty much assured.
Ok so you seem to think a fire fighting job is average, and that anyone could do it, and as such the pay should be lower.

Yet in your own post you self report that you would have no shot of even getting through the selection process.

Doesn’t sound very average to me. Unless you believe you’re a below average candidate/employee. I highly doubt ANY of the posters in here bashing the profession would have a hope in hell at passing the physical test. So again...doesn’t seem so average to me.

I think people assume that just because you don’t have to have a degree makes it that any Joe blow could do the job or that a job without a degree requirement is easy or shouldn’t be fairly compensated.

When in reality...having a degree just means you spent some money to get a piece of paper saying you went to school (speaking as someone who also has this useless piece of paper).

The amount of people coming out of school these days with a degree and believing this somehow makes them more superior to everybody else is hilarious.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 21, 2011
8251 posts
1378 upvotes
Edmonton
superangrypenguin wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 8:58 am
This is precisely why so many of us look down on pub sector employees. Many of us take great pride in working above a 9-5, versus many pub sec employees go "nope, I'm not officially on duty right now so I'm not going to work".
Why aren't you efficient enough to get your work done in 8 hours?
Deal Addict
Aug 1, 2007
2001 posts
472 upvotes
clseea wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 11:16 am
Why aren't you efficient enough to get your work done in 8 hours?
His boss needs to factcheck everything he does since he cant seem to get simple Google-able stats right...
And when you f-up of course you gotta put in unpaid time to correct the errors...
Deal Fanatic
Nov 21, 2011
8251 posts
1378 upvotes
Edmonton
burnt69 wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 12:22 am
I disagree, those are arguments for lower compensation, as part of their compensation is based on those altruistic factors. Much like some people volunteer completely for altruistic reasons, even if they could work for pay.
You're entitled to disagree, you're still wrong though
Member
Feb 7, 2004
432 posts
107 upvotes
Haldimand
superangrypenguin wrote:
Feb 10th, 2018 8:07 am
IMHO the only profession in the Emergency Services world that deserve their pay are the paramedics in Ontario. The level of medical training they have is equivalent, or exceeds the highest level in the United States, or EMT-P. Most paramedics in the US have equal or less training than our firefighters even have here, and as everyone knows, the only reason firefighters have basic medical training is because there are far more of them than paramedics.
The paramedic program in Ontario is well on it's way to becoming a university degree simply due to the ever increasing scope of practice a medic has these days. Medical emergencies are higher than they have ever been and the fire unions are using this as another way of justifying their exorbitant budgets with the creation of the ridiculous "fire-medic" model. Realistically, volunteer firefighters are fighting more fires than full time services these days.
Deal Addict
Oct 6, 2015
1300 posts
685 upvotes
OldMarriedGuy wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 11:07 am
Ok so you seem to think a fire fighting job is average, and that anyone could do it, and as such the pay should be lower.
That was speculation as to where it would end up in terms of compensation. Needs above-average physical strength/stamina. But can be done with below-average intelligence. Has fringe benefits including being able to sit around a substantial amount of the time and work on personal endeavours in fitness, entertainment, etc.

But one person or even a handful of HR people can't make these determinations. Labour market principals of supply and demand should.
Yet in your own post you self report that you would have no shot of even getting through the selection process.
Doesn’t sound very average to me. Unless you believe you’re a below average candidate/employee.
I have dramatically above average intelligence, and above average physical stamina (I cycle 50-60km/day when weather permits), but firefighting requires dramatically above average physical capability, particularly with respect to upper body strength.


I highly doubt ANY of the posters in here bashing the profession would have a hope in hell at passing the physical test. So again...doesn’t seem so average to me.
I'm not bashing the profession at all. I hope you don't think that I am. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that market based principles are not being used to determine compensation, and hence, there are some significant problems that arise due to this, including excessive cost to the employer (taxpayers), and the high probability of official misconduct in the hiring process.
Deal Addict
Aug 1, 2007
2001 posts
472 upvotes
Labrie wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 11:42 am
The paramedic program in Ontario is well on it's way to becoming a university degree simply due to the ever increasing scope of practice a medic has these days. Medical emergencies are higher than they have ever been and the fire unions are using this as another way of justifying their exorbitant budgets with the creation of the ridiculous "fire-medic" model. Realistically, volunteer firefighters are fighting more fires than full time services these days.
That's another can of worms that you're opening. Put costs aside, fire department usually beats EMS to most medical calls that I've dealt with, unless its a really low priority service call. If you are a person on the other side of this debate (ie the patient or a civilian aiding a situation), you would wanna see emergency response personnel ASAP, regardless if they are fire or EMS. It is just that much more comforting and assuring when you are the one in distress.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 21, 2011
8251 posts
1378 upvotes
Edmonton
burnt69 wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 12:31 pm
That was speculation as to where it would end up in terms of compensation. Needs above-average physical strength/stamina. But can be done with below-average intelligence. Has fringe benefits including being able to sit around a substantial amount of the time and work on personal endeavours in fitness, entertainment, etc.

But one person or even a handful of HR people can't make these determinations. Labour market principals of supply and demand should.



I have dramatically above average intelligence, and above average physical stamina (I cycle 50-60km/day when weather permits), but firefighting requires dramatically above average physical capability, particularly with respect to upper body strength.





I'm not bashing the profession at all. I hope you don't think that I am. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that market based principles are not being used to determine compensation, and hence, there are some significant problems that arise due to this, including excessive cost to the employer (taxpayers), and the high probability of official misconduct in the hiring process.
Ohhhhh barf I just threw up
Deal Addict
Oct 6, 2015
1300 posts
685 upvotes
clseea wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 1:00 pm
Ohhhhh barf I just threw up
Why? The mental picture of me in tight spandex cycling clothing brings you issues?

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