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  • Apr 27th, 2017 6:48 pm
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Sr. Member
Jan 9, 2011
893 posts
467 upvotes
Vancouver
I'm talking about new hires—the fresh twenty somethings that are filling the positions on the on-call lists and those vacated by the retirees. Especially here in BC where there is s severe shortage of French-speaking teachers.

5 postings for English will attract 100 applications. The board can and will hire the creme de la creme.
5 postings for French will attract 10 applications. The board will try to hire the best, but every other school board is recruiting these applicants too.
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May 17, 2005
3645 posts
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in general, in GTA French immersion has a much higher "minimum requirements" from kids/parents ... if the kid doesn't follow up for whatever reason (marks or behavior - those usually come together) the kid is usually politely moved to English only class ... so in practice you most likely will not find any "big problems" in the FI class witch in the end will keep the education level up ...
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
15725 posts
4643 upvotes
Ottawa
OP, decide what is best for your kid.
I've lived in the capital all my life and French is for public workers, mainly in senior managerial positions.
For the private sector (Tech), French is definitely "not" a requirement and will not hinder job opportunities and promotions.

Source: I work in tech and wife use to work for BoC.
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Dec 27, 2009
3419 posts
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Ottawa, ON
vkizzle wrote:
Apr 18th, 2017 6:31 am
OP, decide what is best for your kid.
I've lived in the capital all my life and French is for public workers, mainly in senior managerial positions.
For the private sector (Tech), French is definitely "not" a requirement and will not hinder job opportunities and promotions.

Source: I work in tech and wife use to work for BoC.
I think for anyone living/working in Ottawa that not being bilinqual is a hindrance. I'm not bilingual and I sure wish I were. I'm from BC originally where it is rare, but here in Ottawa it is very common. Lots of jobs require it. If I were raising my daughter here instead of BC (where I raised her) you'd better believe she'd be in French Immersion.

I don't see how any additional skill/knowledge you provide for your child can do anything but help them.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
15725 posts
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Ottawa
Chickinvic wrote:
Apr 18th, 2017 2:19 pm
I think for anyone living/working in Ottawa that not being bilinqual is a hindrance. I'm not bilingual and I sure wish I were. I'm from BC originally where it is rare, but here in Ottawa it is very common. Lots of jobs require it. If I were raising my daughter here instead of BC (where I raised her) you'd better believe she'd be in French Immersion.

I don't see how any additional skill/knowledge you provide for your child can do anything but help them.
Everyone can raise their kid their own way, but let's not start to pretend it's the worst decision as a parent.
As I have stated, speaking French is not a requirement.
I work in a company with nearly 200 employees and can count with my two hands; for those that speaks French.
Sr. Member
Nov 13, 2013
714 posts
244 upvotes
OTTAWA
vkizzle wrote:
Apr 18th, 2017 2:25 pm
Everyone can raise their kid their own way, but let's not start to pretend it's the worst decision as a parent.
As I have stated, speaking French is not a requirement.
I work in a company with nearly 200 employees and can count with my two hands; for those that speaks French.
I think it is rare in Ottawa to have that few bilingual positions your customer base must be outside of Ottawa and even Canada.
In Ottawa it is not just French aspect of French Immersion but since almost everyone puts their kids in French Immersion the English program is really for the left overs.
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Aug 22, 2011
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Ottawa
fogetmylogin wrote:
Apr 18th, 2017 2:28 pm
I think it is rare in Ottawa to have that few bilingual positions your customer base must be outside of Ottawa and even Canada.
In Ottawa it is not just French aspect of French Immersion but since almost everyone puts their kids in French Immersion the English program is really for the left overs.
Actually, we work alot with Bombardier out of Montreal.
I have nothing against the French curriculum and actually happy that it starts right away in JK for my kid.
My problem is that other parents are pulling out their pitch and fork; because OP is choosing differently.
Sr. Member
Jan 9, 2011
893 posts
467 upvotes
Vancouver
lubmar wrote:
Apr 17th, 2017 4:00 pm
in general, in GTA French immersion has a much higher "minimum requirements" from kids/parents ... if the kid doesn't follow up for whatever reason (marks or behavior - those usually come together) the kid is usually politely moved to English only class ... so in practice you most likely will not find any "big problems" in the FI class witch in the end will keep the education level up ...
This is what many parents believe but do not want to say out loud in polite company. They want their kid in French immersion not so much for the language skills, but so their kid doesn't have to rub shoulders with the poor, the hungry, the autistic, the learning disabled. Many parents may believe that keeping your kids' classroom filled with the creme de la creme and keeping out the riff-raff is good for your kid's educational outcomes, but they really ought to take a hard look at the facts to see if that is really the case.

I do not support this kind of publicly funded tracking that creams off the most capable kids into their own program and leaves the rest behind. If this is the real reason parents want French immersion for their kids, then they should be paying to put their kids in private school.
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Dec 27, 2009
3419 posts
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Ottawa, ON
Kiraly wrote:
Apr 18th, 2017 9:35 pm
This is what many parents believe but do not want to say out loud in polite company. They want their kid in French immersion not so much for the language skills, but so their kid doesn't have to rub shoulders with the poor, the hungry, the autistic, the learning disabled. Many parents may believe that keeping your kids' classroom filled with the creme de la creme and keeping out the riff-raff is good for your kid's educational outcomes, but they really ought to take a hard look at the facts to see if that is really the case.

I do not support this kind of publicly funded tracking that creams off the most capable kids into their own program and leaves the rest behind. If this is the real reason parents want French immersion for their kids, then they should be paying to put their kids in private school.
That is ridiculous. Most want the French immersion for their children because they know it is setting their child up for more opportunities. Learning another language is good in so many ways. What a bunch of silly nonsense you are spouting about "riff raff".
Sr. Member
Mar 10, 2010
890 posts
100 upvotes
Chickinvic wrote:
Apr 23rd, 2017 1:37 am
That is ridiculous. Most want the French immersion for their children because they know it is setting their child up for more opportunities. Learning another language is good in so many ways. What a bunch of silly nonsense you are spouting about "riff raff".
I've heard people actually talking about the exact points that Kiraly raised so I wouldn't call it "silly nonsense" as there definitely are people making their decision based on this. It's the same reason a lot of people send their non-catholic kids to a catholic school as there's a perception that they won't have to encounter troubled students there. That said I also believe that providing one extra tool for my children's future is never a bad thing.
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Jun 15, 2012
9831 posts
4205 upvotes
Southern Ontario
CDNPatriot wrote:
Apr 1st, 2017 8:46 pm
If a school has French Immersion can I opt out? Or am I required to keep my child in it? Would they be with the same kids that aren't taking french immersion?
Some schools have both streams. At ours, it is more a default stream for children who fail, have learning deficits or behaviour issues, so there are less children in it and some of them are behind in grade for their age. There may be a prejudice from other students that those in the English only stream are viewed as "less intelligent" (insert name calling by child). It's not tolerated by staff/parents but they can't be monitored all the time and that's the nature of kids who don't hold back.

The children that excel in FI in general usually speak French at home. Neither I or my wife do, our older child was getting A's in everything and C in French, it was also causing her stress. We noticed her English spelling and grammar were not up to par with her peers in our neighbourhood who attended the English only school. We ended up switching her completely instead of changing streams, and now she gets A's in everything, her friends are local, and she's much happier. Our younger child on the other hand is excelling in all subjects so she's staying in FI for now. They both started in FI from day one.
I should note the English only school is around the corner from where we live and my younger one is picked up there by bus, it's a 30min ride (to the closest one that's Catholic French Immersion). We honestly don't know if she'll continue on into high school in FI, as long as she's happy and getting good grades, and her input is valued of course.

You can read about other views:
https://www.todaysparent.com/kids/8-thi ... immersion/
http://www.canadianfamily.ca/parents/lo ... immersion/
http://www.macleans.ca/education/just-s ... immersion/
Sr. Member
Jan 9, 2011
893 posts
467 upvotes
Vancouver
Chickinvic wrote:
Apr 23rd, 2017 1:37 am
That is ridiculous. Most want the French immersion for their children because they know it is setting their child up for more opportunities. Learning another language is good in so many ways. What a bunch of silly nonsense you are spouting about "riff raff".
It's not silly nonsense. I once had a parent tell me over lunch how glad he was his daughter made it into French immersion kindergarten, and all his reasons were about higher test scores, a better system, fewer special needs kids, like having your kid in private school without having to pay for it, etc. Not once did he mention French language skills as one of the reasons he wanted FI for his kid.

But I'm not surprised you haven't head much of this kind of thing from pro-FI parents. As I mentioned, it's not something they usually like to say in polite company.
Sr. Member
Nov 13, 2013
714 posts
244 upvotes
OTTAWA
Kiraly wrote:
Apr 23rd, 2017 7:45 pm
It's not silly nonsense. I once had a parent tell me over lunch how glad he was his daughter made it into French immersion kindergarten, and all his reasons were about higher test scores, a better system, fewer special needs kids, like having your kid in private school without having to pay for it, etc. Not once did he mention French language skills as one of the reasons he wanted FI for his kid.

But I'm not surprised you haven't head much of this kind of thing from pro-FI parents. As I mentioned, it's not something they usually like to say in polite company.
I agree with you and I am surprised anyone would deny it is part of the allure.
In Ottawa French Immersion is so popular in affluent areas there is almost no choice. The
English program is all split classes and the few kids who couldn't handle French Immersion or maybe have trouble with English.
Sr. Member
Jan 9, 2011
893 posts
467 upvotes
Vancouver
fogetmylogin wrote:
Apr 23rd, 2017 8:08 pm
The
English program is all split classes and the few kids who couldn't handle French Immersion or maybe have trouble with English.
I have been in dual track schools in Vancouver. The French Immersion grade 5 class is 75% white kids with well-to-do parents. The regular grade 5 class across the hall is 0% white kids. And it wasn't just that school; I have seen it over and over at every dual track school in the city. This kind of segregation along racial and class lines may not be the intended effect, but it nonetheless is a very real effect that everybody is afraid to talk about. I wouldn't be surprised if there is an eventual constitutional challenge against this, along the lines of what the USA went through a few generations ago.

I could have put my kids in French immersion, but chose not to, because I disagree with the segregation is causes. I do not believe that having learning disabled and other marginalized children in my kids' class negatively affects my own kids' educational outcomes. That is a fear of many parents, but there aren't really any facts to back it up. I remember telling my kid's friend's grandma that I was not opting for French immersion and she looked at me like I was some sort of child abuser.
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Aug 22, 2011
15725 posts
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Ottawa
Kiraly wrote:
Apr 23rd, 2017 8:56 pm
I have been in dual track schools in Vancouver. The French Immersion grade 5 class is 75% white kids with well-to-do parents. The regular grade 5 class across the hall is 0% white kids. And it wasn't just that school; I have seen it over and over at every dual track school in the city. This kind of segregation along racial and class lines may not be the intended effect, but it nonetheless is a very real effect that everybody is afraid to talk about. I wouldn't be surprised if there is an eventual constitutional challenge against this, along the lines of what the USA went through a few generations ago.

I could have put my kids in French immersion, but chose not to, because I disagree with the segregation is causes. I do not believe that having learning disabled and other marginalized children in my kids' class negatively affects my own kids' educational outcomes. That is a fear of many parents, but there aren't really any facts to back it up. I remember telling my kid's friend's grandma that I was not opting for French immersion and she looked at me like I was some sort of child abuser.
That's extreme and definitely not the norm around here.
Well to do kis are enrolled in private schools.

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