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Furnace replacement.

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Deal Addict
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Jan 2, 2009
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Furnace replacement.

We live in an old 980sqt "50's house, and we have an old I'm sure a 70's gas-o-matic furnace which is not very efficient, and is getting loud and noisy.

It is pretty overwhelming when I look on line what furnace to pick. When I call a plumber of course they would all say the brand that they deal with is the best.

What would be the most trouble free furnace?
29 replies
Sr. Member
Jan 11, 2008
646 posts
97 upvotes
Toronto
That's like asking what the most trouble-free car or appliance...you're going to get a lot of answers (some biased, some not). The other part of the puzzle is finding a good contractor that will do a good job installing and supporting/servicing the unit afterwards. You said plumber, but is your plumber also an HVAC contractor?

The brand names are a start (like Lennox, Carrier, Trane, American Standard, Goodman, etc.). Some others out there are just rebadged namebrands offered at a lower price point. This is probably a good time to ask coworkers, neighbours, family and friends who they used for their furnace servicing and installs to get a general feel, then go do the legwork in getting a proper estimate and checks.

Maybe the furnace needs a good servicing or tune-up.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 21, 2002
6826 posts
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Manitoba
It's very hard to compare one furnace brand to another and everybody has a different opinion. Two things to keep in mind:

1. Look at the warranty, parts and labor included with the furnace. And also see if there's an extended warranty available for extra cost. Any requirements for annual service checks (at your expense!) to maintain the warranty? New furnaces can be very expensive to repair.

2. Look at the seller. Are they a large reputable operation that's going to be around for a long time and stand behind the product? In case something happens to them are there other companies in the area which also service that brand?

When winter is at it's coldest is not the best time to buy a new furnace because installers are busy, demand is high and price competition probably non-existent.

GapBoyPCS's suggestion to ask friends and family about their experiences with a new furnace install is a good idea.
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Aug 20, 2012
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Neighbor had their HVAC replaced during summer. Cost $5888 for whole job. They have Goodman installed. But that cost included 3 brand new toilets. So that's prob. $5500 for the job?? I'm guessing Goodman is a lower level brand. Their house is 2300 sq ft (not including the basement). We have Carrier, our house is 2800 sq ft (not incl. finished basement).
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Deal Guru
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Mar 13, 2004
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Some suggestions as we replaced our furnace 5years ago and have had nothing but issues because our furnace happen to die in the winter and we were in a rush.

1 - Buy at least a dual stage furnace. These will be very good for an older home like yours that probably has little to no insulation like our home does.
2 - The company you call out should be doing a airflow test to find out exactly how big or small of a furnace you need. Do NOT allow them to just say oh your old one was 80,000btu so we will replace it with the same size. NO that does not work, thats exactly what happened to us and on very cold days the furnace runs for to long and sets over a sensor and shuts down the heat in the middle of the night so when we wake up the house is freezing.
3 - As if its needed to run any extra heat runs or even an extra return air to the new furnace. Since your already getting work done now would be the time to do it so you have better cooling/heating through the home.
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Feb 8, 2014
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sickcars wrote: Some suggestions as we replaced our furnace 5years ago and have had nothing but issues because our furnace happen to die in the winter and we were in a rush.

1 - Buy at least a dual stage furnace. These will be very good for an older home like yours that probably has little to no insulation like our home does.
2 - The company you call out should be doing a airflow test to find out exactly how big or small of a furnace you need. Do NOT allow them to just say oh your old one was 80,000btu so we will replace it with the same size. NO that does not work, thats exactly what happened to us and on very cold days the furnace runs for to long and sets over a sensor and shuts down the heat in the middle of the night so when we wake up the house is freezing.
3 - As if its needed to run any extra heat runs or even an extra return air to the new furnace. Since your already getting work done now would be the time to do it so you have better cooling/heating through the home.
Agreed, you want a proper heat loss calculation, most companies just go by old furnace or rules of thumb because they don't want to do the extra work, avoid these companies.
You should get a blower door test done, it will tell you the air leakage rate of your house which can affect furnace sizing up to 50%

In the here and now get a tech who can get your current one working for the winter, you want several months to research and get quotes, buying in the middle of winter ASAP means you will be gouged, the few hundred to get your current one running for this winter is money well spent.
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Deal Fanatic
Apr 24, 2006
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aznnorth wrote: Neighbor had their HVAC replaced during summer. Cost $5888 for whole job. They have Goodman installed. But that cost included 3 brand new toilets. So that's prob. $5500 for the job?? I'm guessing Goodman is a lower level brand. Their house is 2300 sq ft (not including the basement). We have Carrier, our house is 2800 sq ft (not incl. finished basement).
Goodman has sort of flown under the radar. I've had 2 separate installers tell me that they use them in their own house and have never had major issues with them.
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Deal Guru
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Aug 20, 2012
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cwb27 wrote: Goodman has sort of flown under the radar. I've had 2 separate installers tell me that they use them in their own house and have never had major issues with them.
Goodman tends to be lower end of the range and most peeps choose them becuz of the cost. The main issue of Goodman is the ventor motor. Over time you will hear a buzz or hum when the furnace turns on. Goodman is warrantied for 5yrs. As for the ventor motor it's good to have it replaced prior to 5 yrs since it's free anyway under warranty. The only cost is labor. But if you know how to do it yourself it's basically plug and play, 5 min to replace. As for the installers having it in their home it may or may not be true. Could be saying it for marketing purposes as that's the brand they deal with most or have the most expertise.
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Banned
Nov 10, 2013
82 posts
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Lennox & Carrier are pretty good brands and can be considered if you are planning to live in this house for longer time period. 45,000 BTU would be the suitable furnace for your 980 Sq ft. home.
rotjong wrote: We live in an old 980sqt "50's house, and we have an old I'm sure a 70's gas-o-matic furnace which is not very efficient, and is getting loud and noisy.

It is pretty overwhelming when I look on line what furnace to pick. When I call a plumber of course they would all say the brand that they deal with is the best.

What would be the most trouble free furnace?
Please click thanks, if you liked my post :)
Deal Fanatic
Apr 24, 2006
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aznnorth wrote: Goodman tends to be lower end of the range and most peeps choose them becuz of the cost. The main issue of Goodman is the ventor motor. Over time you will hear a buzz or hum when the furnace turns on. Goodman is warrantied for 5yrs. As for the ventor motor it's good to have it replaced prior to 5 yrs since it's free anyway under warranty. The only cost is labor. But if you know how to do it yourself it's basically plug and play, 5 min to replace. As for the installers having it in their home it may or may not be true. Could be saying it for marketing purposes as that's the brand they deal with most or have the most expertise.
Guessing you did some Googling as your last post you said that you "guessed that" Goodman was lower end and now you're talking about Goodman like you're an authority on the subject?
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Deal Addict
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May 24, 2008
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aznnorth wrote: Goodman tends to be lower end of the range and most peeps choose them becuz of the cost. The main issue of Goodman is the ventor motor. Over time you will hear a buzz or hum when the furnace turns on. Goodman is warrantied for 5yrs. As for the ventor motor it's good to have it replaced prior to 5 yrs since it's free anyway under warranty. The only cost is labor. But if you know how to do it yourself it's basically plug and play, 5 min to replace. As for the installers having it in their home it may or may not be true. Could be saying it for marketing purposes as that's the brand they deal with most or have the most expertise.
Is this actually true?

We got Goodman furnace and AC installed over 5 years ago and both units have been rock solid - no buzz, no hum, no problems. Ours came with 10 years parts and labour warranty.

The installer admitted that Goodman had problems in the past, but he said they had made huge strides and were trying to repair their reputation. Hence the 10 year warranty.

So, has so much changed in the last 5 years? Are they back were they were 10-15 years ago? Would like to hear more about this.
Member
Dec 27, 2006
207 posts
12 upvotes
London
curious as to what quotes you get - Post the prices up! I also need a similar sized furnace. should cost about 2 grand for a basic furnace swap in

DC motor supposed to save heavily on hydro bills (but more expensive to replace when it breaks)

Variable stage probably overkill for such a small home and a bit gimicky but a 2stage furnace might save you a little dough on the monthly bill
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Aug 20, 2012
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cwb27 wrote: Guessing you did some Googling as your last post you said that you "guessed that" Goodman was lower end and now you're talking about Goodman like you're an authority on the subject?
Uh, no... google expert. I spoke to actual technicians (yes, they have those...) who was servicing our Goodman prior to us changing over to Carrier 1.5yrs ago and that's what was told. The technician said ventor motor is a common issue in his dealings with Goodman. He's been servicing furnaces (many Goodman clients he says...) for a dozen years. Sounds like someone has a Goodman. lol.
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Newbie
Mar 24, 2011
67 posts
23 upvotes
Ottawa
I'm in the same boat and looking around here in Ottawa. In my case, I had an issue with the pressure sensor and a lil googling and messing around resolved that issue before but this morning, I woke up and it was a different status code indicating the ignitor was malfunctioning. Call a technician in and find that the ignitor is broken. Gets replaced and then BOOM, turns out its the relay on the controller that is burnt to permanently keep the Ignitor on. Argh! And I hear intermittent noises from the motor. So $200 for the ignitor, $500 for the control board, $600 for the motor(in the near future) + God-knows-what-else. Makes one think maybe a new install might just be better. Its a 10 year old Payne pg9m gas furnace and I think an upfront installation might be better in the long run instead of shelling out chunks of money every few years.

Technician recommended 59TP5 by Carrier and looks decent. Also I heard whispers about grants/rebates in place before - those things still exist? So from what I gather here, its better to wait it out till summer to get better deals then? Maybe Spring or Fall might be better? Summer these folks may be busy with AC installs? I already put in $300 for the ignitor replacement today but if I order a new one in the next week, i'd be reimbursed that amount apparently. However if there are more savings in Spring then the 300 for now may be worth it.

Do post prices quoted for furnaces - I'll try and do the same!
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May 24, 2008
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aznnorth wrote: Uh, no... google expert. I spoke to actual technicians (yes, they have those...) who was servicing our Goodman prior to us changing over to Carrier 1.5yrs ago and that's what was told. The technician said ventor motor is a common issue in his dealings with Goodman. He's been servicing furnaces (many Goodman clients he says...) for a dozen years. Sounds like someone has a Goodman. lol.
Did you ask him if he was talking about older or newer models of Goodman? As I said in my previous post, from what I was told by a technician, Goodman of the last five years is not the same as they were 10 years ago.
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Aug 20, 2012
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Little Tim wrote: Did you ask him if he was talking about older or newer models of Goodman? As I said in my previous post, from what I was told by a technician, Goodman of the last five years is not the same as they were 10 years ago.
He said he dealt with all models, new/old, low end/high end - everything in between including regular gas furnaces from 70-80 yrs ago that are still working fine. The least common service calls were with carrier and american standard HEF. The most common were lower end Goodman. Again YMMV. Our Goodman was originally installed in 2008. The ventor motor noise didnt start humming and making noise till 4 yrs later in 2012. The warranty was still in effect in 2013. I could've had it replaced for free but what if the same thing happens again in 4-5 yrs?? Didnt want to take the chance and changed to Carrier. He also said (in his opinion, not mine as I'm not an expert) that if you have the old gas burning furnaces and it's working fine and nothing is wrong dont bother to change it. Repairs cost less and easier to maintain without all the high tech stuff of HEF. For example a ventor motor can cost $450 without the labor added. He said peeps "think" HEF means more efficient use of gas and therefore lowers your bills but in reality there really is not much difference at all. HEF means the furnace is high efficient; it doesnt mean you get more efficient use of gas by using less gas to provide the same heat in the same amount of space given the same insulation. HEF furnaces also doesnt last as long as the old furnaces. On average a HEF can last maybe 15-25yrs before needing to be replaced again. So total cost factor for HEF in the long run isnt cheap and you may not save any money at all. Again YMMV. He said for a mid-higher end HVAC HEF system including installation, everything, etc. should be around $6500-7000 range. He said some clients pay 10k+ for the best, others pay 4-5k on lower cheaper models to save money. Of course it all depends on your budget and how much you wanna pay.
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Newbie
Dec 3, 2014
12 posts
2 upvotes
Hamilton, ON
rotjong wrote: We live in an old 980sqt "50's house, and we have an old I'm sure a 70's gas-o-matic furnace which is not very efficient, and is getting loud and noisy.

It is pretty overwhelming when I look on line what furnace to pick. When I call a plumber of course they would all say the brand that they deal with is the best.

What would be the most trouble free furnace?
certainly everyone would speak for itself or whatever brand make or model they are offering. But instead of asking plumbers you should do research by yourself, you will not get confidence only but a lot of information when you will interact with heating cooling companies by dealing meeting with their techs or advisers while getting quotes for your home heating. I guess you can research online and can call different companies that serves your area and you can get free estimates so you will have at least some idea which one will suit better to your home needs. because some of things that you cant do all by your self , one of them is accurately take energy estimate for your home that only a professional can do. new system come with modern technology and beside furnace replacement you might need some electrical work or electrical panel or switches replacement. as you mentioning you have small house a 60,000 BTU furnace should be right for you. but its just a rough idea on base of size of your house.
Deal Addict
Dec 17, 2007
2625 posts
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Alliston, ON
aznnorth wrote: He said he dealt with all models, new/old, low end/high end - everything in between including regular gas furnaces from 70-80 yrs ago that are still working fine. The least common service calls were with carrier and american standard HEF. The most common were lower end Goodman. Again YMMV. Our Goodman was originally installed in 2008. The ventor motor noise didnt start humming and making noise till 4 yrs later in 2012. The warranty was still in effect in 2013. I could've had it replaced for free but what if the same thing happens again in 4-5 yrs?? Didnt want to take the chance and changed to Carrier. He also said (in his opinion, not mine as I'm not an expert) that if you have the old gas burning furnaces and it's working fine and nothing is wrong dont bother to change it. Repairs cost less and easier to maintain without all the high tech stuff of HEF. For example a ventor motor can cost $450 without the labor added. He said peeps "think" HEF means more efficient use of gas and therefore lowers your bills but in reality there really is not much difference at all. HEF means the furnace is high efficient; it doesnt mean you get more efficient use of gas by using less gas to provide the same heat in the same amount of space given the same insulation. HEF furnaces also doesnt last as long as the old furnaces. On average a HEF can last maybe 15-25yrs before needing to be replaced again. So total cost factor for HEF in the long run isnt cheap and you may not save any money at all. Again YMMV. He said for a mid-higher end HVAC HEF system including installation, everything, etc. should be around $6500-7000 range. He said some clients pay 10k+ for the best, others pay 4-5k on lower cheaper models to save money. Of course it all depends on your budget and how much you wanna pay.
So instead of fixing your furnace for free this time, and maybe $5-600 again in 5-6years, you paid $4-5k+ to get a new furnace??

Goodman gets a bad name because of some of the people doing crappy installs. Some companies only let "factory Trained" companies install their products, and others well sell to any company and let anyone install. I'd say 90% of the problems that arise with Furnaces are due to problems related with the install... could be an over/under sized unit, or a crappy install causing early failure.
Newbie
Dec 3, 2014
12 posts
2 upvotes
Hamilton, ON
rotjong wrote: we live in an old 980sqt "50's house, and we have an old i'm sure a 70's gas-o-matic furnace which is not very efficient, and is getting loud and noisy.

It is pretty overwhelming when i look on line what furnace to pick. When i call a plumber of course they would all say the brand that they deal with is the best.

What would be the most trouble free furnace?

sent you a private message
Deal Fanatic
Nov 2, 2005
5355 posts
2721 upvotes
WFH
schade wrote: Goodman gets a bad name because of some of the people doing crappy installs. Some companies only let "factory Trained" companies install their products, and others well sell to any company and let anyone install. I'd say 90% of the problems that arise with Furnaces are due to problems related with the install... could be an over/under sized unit, or a crappy install causing early failure.
This, anyone with a license, a minivan and a Kijiji account can set themselves up as a HVAC contractor. An incorrectly installed and badly specified furnace can cause any unit from any manufacturer to fail. There's nothing wrong with Goodman, Keeprite, Rheem etc. If you're lucky enough to find one of the good contractor you can get yourself a good quality furnace sized and installed properly for a great price.

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