G1 Driver Question

[Windevil7]

Everyone knows a G1 driver must be accompanied with a full-licenced driver who has at least 4 years of driving experience. My question is: Does the experienced driver have to obtain the G licence for 4 years or only been licenced for 4 years?

Answers are all appreciated!

[VivienM]

Everyone knows a G1 driver must be accompanied with a full-licenced driver who has at least 4 years of driving experience. My question is: Does the experienced driver have to obtain the G licence for 4 years or only been licenced for 4 years?

Answers are all appreciated!

I think it's just licenced for 4 years AND a current G licence.

Easy way to tell, at least on the older (prettier) licences: if you have four red dots underneath the picture, then you've got the required experience for sure...

[vaportech]

Must have a G license for 4 Years. Fully licensed means G and 4 years driving experience means they need to have had the G license for a duration of 4 years.

Class G1

New drivers of passenger vehicles learn to drive with six important conditions with a G1 licence. A new driver must hold a G1 licence for a minimum of 12 months before attempting the G1 road test. This time can be reduced to eight months if you successfully complete a Ministry-approved Beginner Driver Education Course. Drivers earn more privileges after passing their G1 road test.

As a G1 driver, you are required to:

· maintain a zero blood alcohol level while driving;

· be accompanied by a fully licensed driver, who has at least four years driving experience, and a blood alcohol level of less than .05 per cent, in case he/she needs to take over the wheel;

· ensure the accompanying driver is the only other person in the front seat;

· ensure the number of passengers in the vehicle is limited to the number of working seat belts;

· refrain from driving on Ontario's "400-series" highways with a posted speed limit of over 80 km/h or on high speed expressways such as the Queen Elizabeth Way, Don Valley Parkway, Gardiner Expressway, E.C. Row Expressway and the Conestoga Parkway;

Note: If your accompanying driver is a driving instructor licensed in Ontario, you may drive on any road.

[funky_monkey_99]

yea..the experience part of it starts when u get your g1. cause i only had my g for 2 1/2 years and i just renewed recently and got the four dots on the new license which is located to the right and bottom-centre of the card vertically placed. so if u had your license for four years at any class but has to be a current g now, you can be passenger in front.

[Hugh Jass]

I posed the same question to my insurance company because it's not exactly clear. Initially they couldn't say for sure, but found out for sure that it means the passenger must have held a G license for 4 yrs. I asked a cop also and he said to the best of his knowledge it's 4yrs with a G.

I'm thinking of calling the Ministry and getting a definitive answer because it would benefit our family if it only means licensed for 4yrs, not a G for 4 yrs.

[VivienM]

(2) A person is qualified to act as an accompanying driver if he or she,

(a) is a fully licensed driver in a Class G motor vehicle;

(b) has been licensed in Ontario or another jurisdiction for at least four years except if the person is licensed as a driving instructor in Ontario; and

(c) meets the applicable requirements of the Act and the regulations, including any requirement to wear corrective lenses but not including any requirement for any special or modified controls applicable to the accompanying driver’s licence. O. Reg. 340/94, s. 5 (2); O. Reg. 83/05, s. 4.

That's what the appropriate regulation says.

The interesting thing is if you contrast the language between (a) and (b). In (a), it says FULLY licensed, while in (b) it just says "licensed".

Do any HTA experts know if there's a definition of licensed around somewhere?

[Broli's Mom]

Do any HTA experts know if there's a definition of licensed around somewhere?

In O. Reg. 340/94, Drivers' Licences, the definition of a "fully licensed driver" is:

a person authorized to drive a class of motor vehicle on a highway and who, while operating a vehicle of that class, is not subject to novice conditions or classed as a probationary driver;

This means that the time that a person has held a G1 or a G2 does not count towards the "four year" time period.

[VivienM]

In O. Reg. 340/94, Drivers' Licences, the definition of a "fully licensed driver" is:

a person authorized to drive a class of motor vehicle on a highway and who, while operating a vehicle of that class, is not subject to novice conditions or classed as a probationary driver;

This means that the time that a person has held a G1 or a G2 does not count towards the "four year" time period.

I'm reading the same regulation.

It says: "(2) A person is qualified to act as an accompanying driver if he or she,

(a) is a fully licensed driver in a Class G motor vehicle;

(b) has been licensed in Ontario or another jurisdiction for at least four years except if the person is licensed as a driving instructor in Ontario; and"

Notice how "fully licensed driver", which is indeed defined, is used ONLY in (a), but not in (b)?

If (b) said "has been a fully licensed driver in Ontario", then I would agree with you. But it does not.

[Broli's Mom]

I'm reading the same regulation.

It says: "(2) A person is qualified to act as an accompanying driver if he or she,

(a) is a fully licensed driver in a Class G motor vehicle;

(b) has been licensed in Ontario or another jurisdiction for at least four years except if the person is licensed as a driving instructor in Ontario; and"

Notice how "fully licensed driver", which is indeed defined, is used ONLY in (a), but not in (b)?

If (b) said "has been a fully licensed driver in Ontario", then I would agree with you. But it does not.

There is no "or" between 2(a) and 2(b) but there is an "and" at the end of 2(b), this means that the driver must satisfy 2(a), 2(b) and 2(c) in order to be considered eligible as an accompanying driver.

(2) A person is qualified to act as an accompanying driver if he or she,

(a) is a fully licensed driver in a Class G motor vehicle;

(b) has been licensed in Ontario or another jurisdiction for at least four years except if the person is licensed as a driving instructor in Ontario; and

(c) meets the applicable requirements of the Act and the regulations, including any requirement to wear corrective lenses but not including any requirement for any special or modified controls applicable to the accompanying driver’s licence. O. Reg. 340/94, s. 5 (2); O. Reg. 83/05, s. 4.

[VivienM]

There is no "or" between 2(a) and 2(b) but there is an "and" at the end of 2(b), this means that the driver must satisfy 2(a), 2(b) and 2(c) in order to be considered eligible as an accompanying driver.

Yes.

So, the person must be:
- a fully licensed driver in a class G motor vehicle AND
- licensed in Ontario for at least four years AND
- meeting the other requirements in the Act

Now, how do you go from THAT to saying that the person must have had a class G licence for four years?

The way I read it, if you got your class G licence yesterday (which makes you a fully licensed driver today), and you've been "licensed" in Ontario for at least four years (which satisfies the second requirement), and you meet the other requirements in the Act, then that satisfies all three elements.

Based on the MTO's policy when it comes to the red dots underneath your picture, I think they agree with my reading. I passed the G test 4.5 years after getting the G1 licence, and when they mailed the licence, IIRC it had the four red dots.

[Broli's Mom]

You're right, a G1 is a licence, as is a G2. Geez, this stuff is confusing!

[VivienM]

You're right, a G1 is a licence, as is a G2. Geez, this stuff is confusing!

Oh yes. The Highway Traffic Act is not the most... clearly worded... statute out there.

I think it's mostly a historical thing: they've just been patching it up for decades, so all kinds of old terminology (e.g. "novice driver") is still around, and then every time they come up with a newer restriction on young drivers, they just add more stuff to the regulations.

[Broli's Mom]

FWIW, a "driver's licence" is a licence issued under section 32 to drive a motor vehicle on the highway. I am not going to go any further for fear of putting my foot in my mouth...again!

[Sonbuster]

Must have a G license for 4 Years. Fully licensed means G and 4 years driving experience means they need to have had the G license for a duration of 4 years.

That's incorrect,
I got my G in my 5th year of recieving my license when it was issued as a G1.

as soon as i got my G, i had 4 dots. therefore, i'm a fully license G driver.

[VivienM]

FWIW, a "driver's licence" is a licence issued under section 32 to drive a motor vehicle on the highway.

Yes, but section 32... doesn't say too too much.