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Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 9:56 am
by gherikill
What brand makes gas with the lowest ethanol content? I am talking about Regular 87 octane gas. The sign at shell says that 87 can contain up to 10% ethanol, and I know Petro Canada has a similar sign. Does anyone know if some of the smaller companies like Eagle, Pioneer etc put ethanol in their gas?

The less ethanol the better fuel economy.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 10:14 am
by skategoat
I always try to avoid ethanol not for the mileage issue but because of ethanol's corrosive properties and potential engine damage. I'm not taking any chances.

Pioneer has been using 10% ethanol for years. Sunoco switched to it a few years ago. As for the other majors, it's a hit and miss situation. Some pumps have the ethanol sign up, others don't. I suspect that even without the 10% ethanol sticker, there's no guarantee. It's the same trucks that go around to all the stations from just a couple of refineries.

It's basically a losing cause. We're getting ethanol rammed down our throats, like it or not.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 10:49 am
by ar_ken
so while we're at it.. what are the BENEFITS for having ethanol in gas? :?:

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 11:01 am
by astroboi
Pioneer = Sunoco, which has the highest ethanol content. BTW, try to boycott these stations as per www.boycottgas.ca.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 11:07 am
by gherikill
There is no benefit for the car, just the environment.

I might start buying midgrade because shell says they have only 5% ethanol.

Ethanol has about 15% less mileage than gas so you are losing about 1.5% fuel economy by buying 10% ethanol gas.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 11:16 am
by squireglig
yea, just bad news for your car usually. Cars manufactured today aren't designed to burn ethanol properly. If they revamp vehicles to properly utilize ethanol, i wouldn't have a problem with it.

I think Esso might be ethanol free, it's the only place I cant recall seeing an ethanol content sign.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 11:32 am
by wing0
squireglig wrote: yea, just bad news for your car usually. Cars manufactured today aren't designed to burn ethanol properly. If they revamp vehicles to properly utilize ethanol, i wouldn't have a problem with it.

I think Esso might be ethanol free, it's the only place I cant recall seeing an ethanol content sign.
From what i remembered, Cdn Tire get their gas from Esso too, but I see the "up to 10% ethanol" sticker at CT...wouldn't that mean Esso has ethanol too now?

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 12:35 pm
by Pete_Coach
wing0 wrote: From what i remembered, Cdn Tire get their gas from Esso too, but I see the "up to 10% ethanol" sticker at CT...wouldn't that mean Esso has ethanol too now?
Stations get their gas from the nearest refinery, regardless who owns the refinery. "Special" additives to make it Esso, Shell or whatever are added to the truck.
One of the benefits of Ethanol for gas companies is that the ethanol is actually an octane booster. So they can use an even lower cut fuel, add ethanol and still come up with 87 octane.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 12:39 pm
by ES_Revenge
squireglig wrote: yea, just bad news for your car usually. Cars manufactured today aren't designed to burn ethanol properly. If they revamp vehicles to properly utilize ethanol, i wouldn't have a problem with it.
I'm going to say the opposite there. Most cars of today are actually designed with 10-20% ethanol as allowable, and most owner's manuals will reflect this. Simply because this gasoline is widely available as pump gas, auto manufacturers make sure they do design with such fuel useage in mind simply because if they didn't it would mean a lot more money lost for them in warranty claims, and possible lawsuits. No cars aren't designed to run entirely on ethanol but they are designed to run without taking significant damage with the types of ethanol blend that are widely available as normal pump gasoline for automobiles.

I don't think either Petro-Canada nor Esso use ethanol blends as high as 10% in reality. (Unless they switched recently, that is.) They probably just have that sign as a catchall/disclaimer in case their gasoline ever contains that much. Sunoco is pretty much the main dealer of ethanol-blended gasoline, as others have mentioned.

But again, as you can see if all of these stations have these signs up, it's easy to understand why car manufacturers must indeed design cars to run on low-percentage ethanol blends without any problems.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 1:46 pm
by BartBandy
astroboi wrote: Pioneer = Sunoco, which has the highest ethanol content. BTW, try to boycott these stations as per www.boycottgas.ca.
Having looked at the different oil companies and their practices years ago, the company I avoid is Esso (Exxon). I just can't completely remember all the reasons anymore, except for that whole "Whoops! Sorry Alaska!" problem.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 1:49 pm
by BartBandy
Pete_Coach wrote: Stations get their gas from the nearest refinery, regardless who owns the refinery. "Special" additives to make it Esso, Shell or whatever are added to the truck.
One of the benefits of Ethanol for gas companies is that the ethanol is actually an octane booster. So they can use an even lower cut fuel, add ethanol and still come up with 87 octane.
In many cases, I believe you're right. But in the GTA for example, after the fire at Esso's Nanticoke refinery, Esso, then Petro-Can, then Shell stations started to run dry. I never saw a closed Sunoco station, and the attendant told me they get their gas from Sarnia (I think).

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 1:59 pm
by Spray
I only use 94 sunoco for my car...it's tuned for it. If i had a non tuned, non turbo car i'd choose a different gas.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 2:05 pm
by astroboi
Spray wrote: I only use 94 sunoco for my car...it's tuned for it. If i had a non tuned, non turbo car i'd choose a different gas.
Why don't you buy Pioneer 93 instead, same gas...different label.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 2:16 pm
by Spray
I've never seen a pioneer in toronto...and how is 93 octane the same as 94 octane?

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 2:23 pm
by astroboi
It's the same gas, same octane, but they label as 93 octane and sell it cheaper so as not to compete with Sunoco 94.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 2:37 pm
by Pete_Coach
astroboi wrote: Why don't you buy Pioneer 93 instead, same gas...different label.
From the Pioneer website:
"Independents like Pioneer must purchase their product from the major oil companies - those who own and operate refineries - and at the same time compete with them across the street for the retail margin."
In other words, Pioneer buys it's gas from whoever sells it to them the cheapest, be that Sunoco (only from Sarnia) or whatever refinery gives them a deal. You know what they say about accepting the lowest bid?? I think that Sunoco gets it's little extra octane by putting in that Ethanol, because up until not to long ago Sunoco's highest octane was 93.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 2:53 pm
by ES_Revenge
Pete_Coach wrote: I think that Sunoco gets it's little extra octane by putting in that Ethanol, because up until not to long ago Sunoco's highest octane was 93.
Perhaps in your area... But I can tell you with certainty Sunoco Ultra 94 has been around in Toronto/GTA since the late 80s. So unless "not long ago" means 20+ years ago, this isn't true for all areas.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 3:04 pm
by astroboi
Pete_Coach wrote: From the Pioneer website:
"Independents like Pioneer must purchase their product from the major oil companies - those who own and operate refineries - and at the same time compete with them across the street for the retail margin."
In other words, Pioneer buys it's gas from whoever sells it to them the cheapest, be that Sunoco (only from Sarnia) or whatever refinery gives them a deal. You know what they say about accepting the lowest bid?? I think that Sunoco gets it's little extra octane by putting in that Ethanol, because up until not to long ago Sunoco's highest octane was 93.
From the Suncor website:

Suncor Energy Products Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Suncor Energy Inc., an integrated energy company. In addition to a refinery in Sarnia, Suncor Energy Products has a network of more than 300 Sunoco-branded retail and Fleet Fuel cardlock sites and has a 50 per cent joint venture interest in more than 200 Pioneer and UPI retail sites. Suncor Energy Products Inc. manufactures, distributes and markets transportation fuels, heating oils and petrochemicals primarily in Ontario. Sunoco in Canada is separate and unrelated to Sunoco in the United States, which is owned by Sunoco, Inc. of Philadelphia.

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 3:11 pm
by Spray
the point is theres no pioneers around me anyways. Besides Sunoco is a club sponsor, and a great gas station. They're never out of gas as well :P

I dont think companies are allowed to lie about their octane count are they?

Re: Gasonline brand with lowest Ethanol content?

Posted: Apr 12th, 2007 3:23 pm
by BartBandy
Doubt it, though I suppose they could understate it.